Hello Kat:
It has been a while but I had to wait for a chance to rendez-vous with a computer. Now the opportunity is here and I´d better take it!
What Bridget said about Andrew taking in the clothes line has always puzzled me. Why should he do such a thing? Well, the most probable thing is that he didn´t. Men at the time usually did not participate in household affairs. So why should Andrew, of all men, do it? If you look at Bridget´s testimony immediately preceding this information (pretrial, page 16) you´ll find that she told Mr. Knowlton that she had bolted the cellar door after bringing the dried clothes in and that she did not know that the door had been used again during that week. Only in answer to a direct question: ”Do you know whether Mr. Borden had anything to do about that the back door was shut up?” (a strange question to ask) did she say: ”Yes, Sir. He always see a Monday, or whatever day the clothes would be taken in, that it was locked; for he always took in the clothes line himself.” He might have helped Bridget do it on some occasion and now she remembered that and took the opportunity to help Lizzie by saying, in different words, of course, that maybe the cellar door had been open but, if so, it was not her fault.
Now about the motive. I think the evidence against Morse that I have pointed out in my essay together with his performance at the pretrial when testifying that he had seen the cellar door open when he returned fron the Emery´s is suffiicient to say with certainty that he was involved in the murders. So I am not using motive as a way to prove guilt. It is the other way around: He was guilty enough and now it remains to speculate about his motive- I do not think that money was involved, Morse saw his nieces as his dear family while Andrew and Abby were not family. Morse was outraged that Andrew intended to more or less disinherit his daughters and he was set on counteracting those intentions even at the price of murder. (The sequence of and time difference between the two murders do point to disinheritance of the daughters in favour of the wife as the precipitating motive, don´t you think?). About William Davis´s motive, if he was the perpetrator, one can only speculate, which I have done. We may find motives weak but what we think is of no consequence. What is important is what the culprits thought..
The poll result are puzzling as far as the 35% believing that Morse knew the killer before the murders are concerned. Of those 35% 30%-units must be included in the 30% in agreement with my theory. That leaves only 5%-units to the 50% partially in agreement. I would have thought that the majority of these 50% believed in the conspiracy but apparently it is not so. Can you shed some light on this, please?
Fritz
In response to Kat´s message # 3
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
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Kat
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Hi Fritz!
Thanks for writing!
There are a few here who could discuss these issues with you as well as myself. I know you are talking to me because you know me- I'm sure others can join in.
It's good to hear from you!
I'm not sure I understand your poll question. I believe it was the second poll and not the one which went with your issue?
It shows degrees of what people think were Morse's involvement?
Was it 35% which believed he was involved in some way?
Thinking about the cellar door- that came up recently as a reason for Morse to loiter in the backyard with a pear- so he could claim he saw that door *open.*
It has always confused me though- as to whether Morse is implying the door was Unlocked or really open, as in ajar?
There is an interior door as well as an exterior door. How can he know, even if the exterior door was ajar, that the interior door was ajar or left unlocked? There is a big bolt on the interior door but I have not seen the exterior door myself in my lifetime.
As I read what you just wrote- I thought some more about the things attributed to Morse and Bridget about that door- and it could be Morse is protecting Lizzie by implying the door was left unlocked or open- meaning anyone could have come in without the family knowing- which doesn't necessarily implicate Morse but gives a reasonable doubt to the fact that people thought only Lizzie could have done it.
By the next morning, I believe Friday? Lizzie, in the kitchen asks Bridget in front of the police: *Are you sure that cellar door was locked?* (not a direct quote) and Bridget answers *Yes, marm.*
That could go along with Morse asking the police, Thursday if they thought someone could have been hiding in the house overnight. (Witness Statements, Fleet, pg.3)- he's already trying to help Lizzie's case.
This sounds at the least that Morse and Lizzie tried to get their story straight over that cellar door overnight Thursday and by Friday Bridget was still not with the plan
It can mean that after the fact, Morse was merely trying to point to an unlocked cellar door for reasonable doubt.
He did the same when he testified about the front door. He claimed if it wasn't pulled to tightly or not slammed the spring lock might not always catch.
I think he got Emma to say the same thing (inquest).
These insinuations about the locks did all come from Morse and it sounds like Lizzie & Emma went along with it, but not Bridget.
Thanks for writing!
There are a few here who could discuss these issues with you as well as myself. I know you are talking to me because you know me- I'm sure others can join in.
It's good to hear from you!
I'm not sure I understand your poll question. I believe it was the second poll and not the one which went with your issue?
It shows degrees of what people think were Morse's involvement?
Was it 35% which believed he was involved in some way?
Thinking about the cellar door- that came up recently as a reason for Morse to loiter in the backyard with a pear- so he could claim he saw that door *open.*
It has always confused me though- as to whether Morse is implying the door was Unlocked or really open, as in ajar?
There is an interior door as well as an exterior door. How can he know, even if the exterior door was ajar, that the interior door was ajar or left unlocked? There is a big bolt on the interior door but I have not seen the exterior door myself in my lifetime.
As I read what you just wrote- I thought some more about the things attributed to Morse and Bridget about that door- and it could be Morse is protecting Lizzie by implying the door was left unlocked or open- meaning anyone could have come in without the family knowing- which doesn't necessarily implicate Morse but gives a reasonable doubt to the fact that people thought only Lizzie could have done it.
By the next morning, I believe Friday? Lizzie, in the kitchen asks Bridget in front of the police: *Are you sure that cellar door was locked?* (not a direct quote) and Bridget answers *Yes, marm.*
That could go along with Morse asking the police, Thursday if they thought someone could have been hiding in the house overnight. (Witness Statements, Fleet, pg.3)- he's already trying to help Lizzie's case.
This sounds at the least that Morse and Lizzie tried to get their story straight over that cellar door overnight Thursday and by Friday Bridget was still not with the plan
It can mean that after the fact, Morse was merely trying to point to an unlocked cellar door for reasonable doubt.
He did the same when he testified about the front door. He claimed if it wasn't pulled to tightly or not slammed the spring lock might not always catch.
I think he got Emma to say the same thing (inquest).
These insinuations about the locks did all come from Morse and it sounds like Lizzie & Emma went along with it, but not Bridget.
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Kat
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Kat
- Posts: 14785
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:59 pm
- Real Name:
- Location: Central Florida
As to Motive and the implication that the time gap between murders proves an inheritence motive:
Lizzie says *I thought I heard her come in*, which, if she knew Abby to be dead, meant she didn't know about the time difference in death being legally and scientifically observable- and that might negate the idea that the time gap was purposely so long as to make the pre-decease of the wife so obviously before Andrew.
Why would she say that?
Lizzie says *I thought I heard her come in*, which, if she knew Abby to be dead, meant she didn't know about the time difference in death being legally and scientifically observable- and that might negate the idea that the time gap was purposely so long as to make the pre-decease of the wife so obviously before Andrew.
Why would she say that?
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Kat
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- Location: Central Florida
In the Witness Statements I found where Bridget said that after she let in Mr. Borden, she left the front door for him to lock.
That negates any liability on her part for an intruder. Morse claims if the front door is not closed properly the spring lock won't work.
Witness Statements
38
"After washing the windows, she came in and let Mr. Borden in by the front door. Then I asked her if she fastened the door. She said she did not think she did; that she left that for Mr. Borden to do."
That negates any liability on her part for an intruder. Morse claims if the front door is not closed properly the spring lock won't work.
Witness Statements
38
"After washing the windows, she came in and let Mr. Borden in by the front door. Then I asked her if she fastened the door. She said she did not think she did; that she left that for Mr. Borden to do."