1. ""I don't know what your name is""
Posted by Benjamin on Aug-12th-03 at 2:04 PM

Hello,
This is my first posting(my cat just walked on the keyboard, so I hope I haven't posted a blank page).
I'm so happy to finally have people to ask this question.
In Lizzie's inquest testimony she makes a very odd, non-sequiter statement and I've never heard any explanation for it. (In Arnold Brown's book, paperback, it's page 349,  Q-46)
Q- Miss Borden, I am trying in good faith to get all the doings that morning of yourself and Miss Sullivan, and I have not succeeded in doing it. Do you desire to give me any information or not?
Lizzie's answer: I don't know it--I don't know what your name is.
   What the heck does that mean?  The Questioner ingores the statement in his next question. It just seemed like such an odd answer for Lizzie to give. Did the morphine they gave her for her nerves suddenly kick in?  It's always puzzled me.

Hi Benjamin & welcome.  You're not the only one puzzled by "Lizziespeak"; we all try to figure out what she meant by this or that remark. 

My guess on the one you've quoted is she's expressing frustration & confusion (either real or pretend).  Translation:  "I don't know anything about this at all; I don't even know what your name is."

It's really hard to say what effect if any the morphine had on her.  I do know they allow people on morphine to drive(!)  My late boss was undergoing cancer treatment & was on morphine for quite some time.  He was allowed to drive.  However, he scraped up the fender paint on a co-worker's brand new car in the parking lot without even knowing he'd done so.

Welcome Benjamin.  I have to agree with Tina-Kate. I think it was a little morphine, a little frustration and a little pretense.

She must have answered a million questions from the time of the murders from both police and friends before appearing at the Inquest. 

There could be the frustration factor that she can't find adequate answers for the questions and that response is some sort of subconscience reaction.

If it was a pretense, and an appeal for some sort of mercy, it would not avail her of much.  Knowlton and Hilliard already were pretty well convinced she was guilty.

I've had morphine (for kidney stones) and it put me to sleep very quickly.  The thing I remember about it was it had no after effects. Of course the effects of the morphine of today may not resemble the morphine of 1892.  Nor do I know what a light dose of it would do as mine was intended to put me to sleep, her's not.

Hi, Benjamin.
I'd be one of the last ones to rush to Lizzies defense, but in all fairness . . . The morphine could have caused confusion in her mind.  If that didn't do it, the eight-hundred plus questions she was asked may have really addled her brain.

When I was fifteen years old I was a witness at a trial.
A smart lawyer had me tied up up in knots within five minutes, and all I had for breakfast was Ovaltine.  Incidently, welcome aboard.  Glad to have you.

First, the New Bedford "Evening Standard" or its source may have garbled the transcript. It was not the official record, but close enough I guess.
The previous questions were about Bridget's activities during the morning and around the time of Andy's death. Lizzie refuses to testify as to what Bridget was doing at the time "because she was in the kitchen most of the times". She did not want to be pinned down.
The most likely explanation is a missing question [...] where the dash is, such as:
[Q. Do you at least know my name?]
"A. I don't know what your name is."

This may be due to her really not knowing who her inquisitor is.

Since her other answers are lucid, this can't be due to her medication. Maybe she was put off by the DA's manners, tone, and demeanor and decided to be uncooperative (don't tell him what he wants to know).

Duplicate Deleted.

(Message last edited Aug-12th-03  5:58 PM.)

Ray has a point about *Context*.
Looking at what comes before and what comes after, can often shed some light on a subject in testimony.
Lizzie seems to be actually saying, in reply to *are you going to give me any information*, -that she has no information, when she says *I don't know it.*

It's hard to keep in mind that this is just several days after the murders and that before August 4th, Knowlton knew naught of Bordens, and Lizzie knew naught of Knowlton, or inquest proceedures, secret testimony behind locked doors or being in front of a judge.

The Evening Standard points out that Knowlton was expected in Fall River August 8th.  That is only one day before the start of the Inquest questioning.
He had to bone up on the characters in the case and the intricacy of the prosecution's approach.  He also had to read and be advised on the Witness Statements collected for him.

I think basically Knowlton did not know Lizzie and Lizzie did not know Knowlton.
Though what a pair they turned out to be.
There's an Opera right there...the relationship of those two...

--I will say tho, since Brown was quoted, Idid verify the testimony posted as Brown's transcription to be accurate to the Inquest.
That is the first step to take one on the journey to a follow-through.
{it's not you I doubted, Benjamin, it's Brown)

(Message last edited Aug-12th-03  8:59 PM.)

Hi Benjamin & Welcome,
I think that Miss Lizzie's statement was her prudish, yankee way of trivializing the DA's importance in his overbearing questioning of her. Her saying "I don't even know what your name is" is equivalent to me as saying " I don't even CARE what your name is". Maybe it's just my Yankee upbring but that's the way I take it. Besides, who does the DA think he was to question Miss Lizzie A. Borden of THE Fall River Borden's?   Mark

i agree with your interpretation.  she's saying, "who are you to get so familiar with me? i don't even know you."

in fact, she is withholding information and she knows it.

i disagree with rays' suggestion that there is a "reasonable" explanation for her response.  the whole character of her testimony is unreasonable -- though she certainly has her reasons for it.

Hi, Benjamin!  Welcome to the forum!

I guess its my turn to throw my 2 cents in the kitty, I'm thinking along the lines as Mark is.  This man, Knowlton, is in Lizzie's face and sounds very testy, perhaps the intonation he used when he asked Lizzie this question was done very sarcastically or condenscendingly?  Which sounds like it aggravated Lizzie and she spit back at him her answer as well as the "I don't know what your name is."  We can't hear Lizzie's tone that she used, but, I get that it was along the lines of "who in the hell are you, Mister, to speak to me that way?"  And Knowlton, put in his place, decides not to acknowledge the statement.  Thats what I get from that exchange between the two. 

(Message last edited Aug-13th-03  3:55 AM.)

***It's really hard to say what effect if any the morphine had on her.  I do know they allow people on morphine to drive(!)  My late boss was undergoing cancer treatment & was on morphine for quite some time.  He was allowed to drive.  However, he scraped up the fender paint on a co-worker's brand new car in the parking lot without even knowing he'd done so.***

that's funny, tina -- at least in the context you put it in.  but that reminds me of something not funny in the least a few years ago.  there was some family function about 30 miles away.  my mother was taking morphine for kidney stones.  she said she wanted to go by herself in her own car so she could leave when she wanted.  my sister and i both tried to talk her out of it, but she so stubbornly insisted so that we finally gave up and said fine.  the next day we learned from her (my mother) that she had no memory of driving there or driving back or the social function itself!  i guess god was driving. my sister and i still discuss, with a sense of horror, about why or how we let her do it.  never again, though.

welcome to the forum, benjamin.  i hope you stick around.  (i'm sure your cat is welcome as well; this place is swarming with cats.)

Adobe versions of lizzie's inquest, witness statements, and the trial are all here on this site.

It's true; you can't swing a cat around here without hitting another cat. 

Lizzie may have approved!

I think all those questions about Bridget are part of a carefully laid trap by DA Knowlton. To pin Lizzie down to specifics.
If Lizzie came up with detailed knowledge, that would imply collusion in an alibi for Bridget. Knowlton may have been trying to take advantage of the ordinary person trying to be helpful.

Lizzie passed this test by saying truthfully she didn't pay much attention since she was reading in the kitchen (two windows w/ southern exposure). [I may have been wrong in placing Lizzie in the sitting room; that's what I would have done.]

Y'all are so fun!  Although I am the Lizzie expert among my family and friends, I suddenly feel very much the novice! I look forward to learning a lot from this site. I'm actually taking my first trip to Fall River in two weeks, so I'm glad for the extra info. (although bummed about the Maplecroft step.)

Maybe we can get our humorists to come up with a foolish plan to get that board removed? 

I believe Edisto's suggestion was darn good --

http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=27&taid=2&topid=1463#5

  Thanks for pulling that up, Tina-Kate!  I had forgotten about it.  Why does this sound like an I Love Lucy episode?  The Ricardos and the Mertzes travel to Fall River and Lucy decides she can't leave without a picture of her on the steps of Maplecroft with that step uncovered.....

Or, "Who the hell are YOU, anyway?"  Yes, Susan, I think so, too, though I also like the harried, desperate quality Elizabeth Montgomery gave the line, as in "Help!"

Hi, Benjamin! 

(Message last edited Aug-19th-03  5:12 PM.)

Don't you wish it was common practice to put more of what the witness' facial expressions were during these things?  Witness looks scared during this line of questioning, witness looks angry, etc.  We'd have such a clearer picture today of how things were said. 

When I was reading the transcripts all the way through in one sitting, it did seem more like a "Who the hell are you" comment! 
I know someone had asked if anyone knew about Jack the Ripper books and for the life of me I can't find that specific message to respond directly, but two good books are:
     The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, By; Philip Sugden
      The Complete Jack the Ripper, by Donald Rumbelow. (he's the true "go to" guy for that stuff. He even conducts Ripper Tours in London. That was fascinating.)

  Hi Bob!
My trip to Fall River is next Monday and I'm glad they weren't affected by the blackout.

So, you are going to Fall River, huh? Well, you know what you
should do? Go up & sign your name on Maplecroft like they do
the fence at Graceland, the owner really gets a kick out of
stuff like that. He just LOVES the Lizzie Fans!

I thought about sneaking up there at night and and doing the sugggestion about writing Maplecroft on the board and leaving a hatchet behind, but I decided I don't want my vacation photos to include a mug shot! 

Have a wonderful time, Benjamin!

BTW, I was on a lot on morphine while I was in the hospital last December, and though it made certain over-edited TV commercials too vivid for me to watch, and even if I could see faces in the wallpaper (like the original movie THE HAUNTING, just out on DVD), I never became confused about what was going on or the sequence of events.

"Of course I'm all right - but isn't that Jean Harlow on the wall next to the light switch?"

I was kidding -- of course. The owner does not appreciate
the Lizzie obsessed at all -- I remember reading on here
that once he removed a person from his lawn by physically
moving them.

I know, I thought your suggestion was funny.
  I do want to take a photo of the house, though. As long as I stay on the sidewalk he can't really do anything, can he?

I guess it is ok to take pics as long as you stay out of
his yard -- I know Stefani & some of the other forum members
have taken pictures, they all lived to tell about it. But,
I'd still be afraid of getting yelled at.

hey!  i know what you mean!

my back pain pills have morphine in them.  and believe me, i'd know if maggie turned into a ghost when father came home while i was downstairs reading magazines and eating pears!

btw, i noticed the haunting is out on dvd; have you seen it?  are there any extras?  does the quality itself contain any revelations?

Are you guys referring to the Haunting Of Hill House by Shirley Jackson?
I read that book in the late 60's I believe and the movie was every bit as good and so creepy.  Just noise and a breathing door.  After that came all those slasher movies, so expicit...the Haunting was still scarier than those.
What have they done to the movie to put it out now on DVD?

This sounds, pardon me  , as though a Legend is being born about this owner!
Imagine these stories cropping up about Lizzie in that same house!

I heard that on here -- I know nothing about the owner -- I'm
sure he is perfectly lovely. Don't you remember the story
about him picking that lady up & physically removing her from
his property? I'm not remembering it wrong, am I?

(Message last edited Aug-20th-03  10:24 PM.)

I don't recall that one, but there are members here who voice their opinions about this owner that could be in the newspaper.  Then in the next age, those news stories could be researched and a Legend born.  Students will write papers on it.

What I read here tho just reminds me of Halloween and kids being afraid to ring that doorbell in times to come.

it looks like it's worth buying.  this from amazon.com:

___________________________________

Starring: Julie Harris, Claire Bloom, See more

Director: Robert Wise

Encoding: Region 1 (U.S. and Canada only. This DVD will probably NOT be viewable in other countries. Read more about DVD formats.)
Format: Black & White, Closed-captioned, Widescreen

Rated: 
Studio: Warner Home Video

DVD Release Date: August 5, 2003
DVD Features:
Commentary by Julie Harris, Claire Bloom, Russ Tamblyn, director Robert Wise, and screenwriter Nelson Gidding

Theatrical trailer(s)

Stills gallery

"Things That Go Bump in the Night" essay

Widescreen anamorphic format

From IMDb: Quotes & Trivia
ASIN: B00009NHB6
Other Formats: VHS
Average Customer Review:  Based on 232 reviews. Write a review.

Amazon.com Sales Rank (DVD): 101

I have an old dupe of this movie from T.V.
I guess now I need a DVD player!
I forgot about Russ Tamblyn.  He was great in "7 Brides For 7 Brothers"!

This was one of the first movies I bought on LaserDisc (to get it widescreen), and I bought it the minute it came out on DVD last week.  Unfortunately, it's not a remastered or a restored version, though it's pretty crisp for an old flick.  The sound levels of the film and the running commentary are very low, however, and your system's volume will have to be turned WAY up, but the commentary's terrific and the extras are cool, too, so it's worth buying.

In many ways, the film script improves on the novel, which, IMO, nearly falls apart when the wife of the professor in charge of the investigation shows up.  I won't give anything away; I'll only say the wife in the film is the exact opposite of the original character.  

(A minus in the movie itself - it was shot in London, and several obviously English actors in some of the opening scenes are extremely unconvincing as New Englanders, both vocally and facially.)  

(Message last edited Aug-21st-03  5:05 PM.)

A "legend" is any collection of stories told about an individual. They may be true, or just may be "stories" that entertain.