1. "Do you dare hope?"
Posted by stefani on Mar-19th-04 at 9:52 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3712322337&category=63591

Perhaps the murder weapon is inside?

SLB??????? Sarah knew that the trunk would eventually go to a spinster Lizzie?  I wish, but don't really think so.  (Maybe it has a false bottom holding a hatchet, just in case Andrew marries a mean old thing.)

--Lyddie

I think Geraldo should open it on live TV.

I dunno about hoping, but...think I might have a better fit for the S.L.B. in this case. The.. is it the indictment - something is signed, or attested to by a Simeon Borden... if he had an initial L., but did not use it officially....

Hmmm

(Message last edited Mar-19th-04  10:44 PM.)

I can't get there from here.
What's up?

The initials SLB bother me. It would not be common to have both Sarah and Lizzie's initials on the same trunk. What was Spencer Borden's middle initial?

Gramma

didn't Sarah Brayton travel to Europe with Lizzie? There is
a Tinkham connection with the Brayton name, maybe it is her trunk!

I was just being facetious, Kat.  The ad shows a trunk labeled SLB.
They appear to have been stenciled on together--no sign of having squeezed Lizzie' initial "L" between Sarah's "SB."  So I was proposing that Sarah psychically knew Abby would be a mean old thing, stenciled Lizzies initials on in advance of her own death, and even provided a still undiscovered murder weapon in a secret compartment below a false bottom in the trunk.  She must have further known that baby Lizzie would be the one to have the stomach for murder.
                        NOT!

--Lyddie

I literally could not get to that link.
I tried copying it and pasting into my address and got errors.  I had no idea what everyone was talking about.  Thanks for the further explanation, but it was even more confusing!
DougOh sent me the text and the pictures- finally some help!  Thanks!

Simeon Borden had no middle name that I could find in the Borden Genealogy or in Victorian Vistas.  There are Spencer Borden and Stephen Borden, but this trunk is a crock, right?
There is no notation this belonged to a Borden?
It could be any S.L.B. in Fall River, if the stencil is even contemporary to the trunk?  Which we don't even know that?

The alleged Tinkham connection would be about it - and that's thin. The seller has better proof of that than anything Borden... Just a supposition the way the ad reads.

Doug

So who is Tinkham?

Of Tinkham, the seller says: "My great grandfather owned a two family house in Providence, RI, and had a tenant by the name of George W. Tinkham. Mr. Tinkham, according to Papa was related to Lizzie Borden and owned a trunk that had belonged to her. (i have an original Tinkham tag that came with the trunk)".

The Tinkham provenance is stronger than anything. Do we know if he and the Bordens were related??


Doug

Tinkham and Brayton were connected though.  Kat if you can't get the link from here, go to Ebay.com, type in the search space "Lizze Borden" and you will get all the Lizzie items.  I would buy that trunk for 25 bucks and go pick it up, but the researve is not met! 

I've got the info from Doug-oh.
I have never heard of Tinkham and I study the Borden genealogy every week.  Admittedly, it is not complete, but it leaves out those who are kind of what I consider pretty distant relations.

Do you know the Tinkham/Brayton connection and explain it please?

I'm saying this from memory because I can't remember where I
read it but there were several Sarah Braytons (Lizzie's traveling
companion to Europe) in Fall River but one
of them was Sarah Tinkham Brayton (or Sarah Brayton Tinkham).
Sorry no source, I'll try to find the source. 

Rebello, pg. 22:
"Note: A profile for Sarah Brayton is not included, as there was not enough information to determine which Sarah Brayton traveled to Europe. There were several ladies with the name Sarah Brayton residing in Fall River in 1890: Sarah Chaloner Brayton (1872-1951), Sarah Submit Brayton (1834-1915), Mrs. Sarah A. Brayton, and Sarah Jane (Tinkham) Brayton."

Think I've got her!

Church Membership, 1800 - 1853
Extracted from First Church of Middleborough, Mass:
Mr. Putnams Century and Half Discourses
An Historical Account and a Catalogue of Members
Published by the Church, 1854

Transcribed by Jane Devlin

Jan 5, 1851 Sarah Jane TINKHAM, dau. of Enoch, gr.mo. 551, gr.gr.fa. 592, Re. in Boston

She is the right age but need to find her marriage to a Brayton!
That trunk might just determine which Sarah Brayton went to Europe with Lizzie!

Gramma

GOT IT !!!

TERCENTENARY OF NEW ENGLAND FAMILIES 1620-1922

By THE AMERICAN HISTORICAL SOCIETY. Pages 1-16
....
John Summerfield Brayton, born in Swansea, December 3, 1826; married Sarah J TINKHAM, of Middleboro, Massachusetts......

John was the son of:
Israel BRAYTON married, August 19, 1813, Keziah ANTHONY, daughter of David and Submit (WHEELER) ANTHONY

and brother to David Anthony Brayton!

Read this!

  "6. ISRAEL (2) BRAYTON, son of John and Sarah (BOWERS) BRAYTON, was born in Somerset, Massachusetts, on the Brayton homestead, July 29, 1792. He spent his entire life there, and died November 5, 1866. In early life, however, he had for a time resided in Swansea and Fall River, and although he returned to the Homestead Farm on the death of his father, he retained his associations in these places. He continued his membership in the Central Congregational Church of Fall River, and was one of its most regular attendants. The "Fall River News," of November 9, 1866, describes the funeral services of Israel BRAYTON and pays tribute to him as a man:

      "It was a scene long to be remembered, as the family and friends gathered around the grave on that serene and most beautiful Indian summer morning, and united with bowed heads and sympathizing hearts in the simple, heartfelt and deeply impressive prayer which was there offered; and we could but feel how grand a lesson is taught us when a good man is called from earth to heaven; a man who has filled the measure of his days in his Master’s service, and whose memory will be cherished by his friends and kindred as among the best of earthly treasures."

      Israel BRAYTON married, August 19, 1813, Keziah ANTHONY, daughter of David and Submit (WHEELER) ANTHONY, they the parents of nine children. Keziah (ANTHONY) BRAYTON was the last to reside permanently upon the Homestead Farm, where she died October 24, 1880, aged eight-nine years. She was a direct descendant of John ANTHONY, one of the pioneer settlers of Rhode Island, who came from England in the year 1634. The Anthony family was prominent in Rhode Island affairs, and had become allied with many of the important families of the colony. Israel and Keziah (ANTHONY) BRAYTON were the parents of the following children:

      Mary, born in Foxboro, Massachusetts, May 9, 1814; married (first), in 1842, Major Bradford DURFEE, of Fall River, who died in 1843, leaving one son, Bradford Matthew Chaloner DURFEE, born June 15, 1843, died, unmarried, in 1872. His mother gave in his memory the B.M.C. Durfee High School in the city of Fall River. She married (second), in 1851, the Rev. Jeremiah S YOUNG, who died in 1861. She died in Fall River, March 22, 1891.
      
         1. William Bowers, born in Swansea, April 6, 1816; married Hannah Turner LAWTON, of Tiverton, Rhode Island.
         2. Nancy Jarrett Bowers, married Daniel CHASE, and their only child died in infancy.
         3. Elizabeth Anthony, married Rev. Roswell Dwight HITCHCOCK, and they were the parents of the following children: Roswell, Mary B, Harriet W, and Bradford W.
         4. David Anthony, born in Swansea, April 2, 1824, died August 20, 1881; married Nancy R JENCKES, of Fall River.
         5. John Summerfield, born in Swansea, December 3, 1826; married Sarah J TINKHAM, of Middleboro, Massachusetts.
         6. Israel Perry, born in Swansea, May 24, 1829, married Parthenia GARDNER, of Swansea.
         7. Hezekiah Anthony, mentioned below"

Gramma

OK -- I've missed a whole lot here.  Are we still trying to connect Sarah Tinkham Brayton to the ebay trunk and the letters S.L.B.?

I was only trying to find a TINKHAM, which nancie did.
I found her source and Gramma ran with it all the way to an ANTHONY family, and Brayton family.
I don't believe the trunk, as it looks dumb to me with no provenance.  Any one can stencil letters on an old trunk.


Thanks Gramma for all the transcribing!

(Message last edited Mar-23rd-04  2:36 AM.)

Hi Kat,

Yup, I do that sometimes! Especially when I feel that challenge to my genealogy bones.
Do not discount the trunk entirely. I agree that stenciling looks like a "hype" job to sell the trunk. After all who is going to believe your story  if it is just an old trunk with no identification? It is possible there were initials there too faint to see and they "enhanced" it. BUT...and this is a big but!....the story has a faint hint of truth to it. It could very well be that this WAS a trunk the ladies took to Europe. Absolute proof will never be found but the fact that the seller probably has a garbled family story on top of the fact they have no idea of the Sarah Jane (Tinkham) Brayton connection other than some George W Tinkham left it for his landlord in Providence, RI. points to a possible match. What would increase that possibility would be to find a relationship of George W. Tinkham to Sarah Jane. Someone she may have given or left the trunk to when done with it. Next step.....

Gramma

Double post! I'm sorry!

Gramma

(Message last edited Mar-23rd-04  9:59 AM.)

Thanks for all the research Gramma, very interesting!  I love old
trunks like that and since the seller is nearby (one hour) I am
interested. Haven't checked yet tonight what it was up to, as of last
night the researve wasn't even met. I agree it might have a Lizzie
connection, fun to try to research it anyway!  The Sarah Jane is the
closest but where does the initial "L" come from....
Thanks again G

I try to help out with the questions which deal with genealogy that are generated by the web-site.
We do a service there too, and Stefani takes care of most of the inquiries.
But the ancestor questions come to me.  You would be surprised how very distant these Borden connections are.  So distant, they are not worth mentioning.

There is a trunk on e-bay.
It has a stencil saying Fall River.
A person named Tinkham may be involved.
Period.

I don't see any sense in following this further.  But good luck to you guys.

Thanks, Kat.
Actually, I don't even give points for the stenciling!
But the relationship would be the same as Elizabeth Brayton's to Lizzie.
It would have been her brother's wife. Or it could have been her sister, Sarah S Brayton that travelled with Lizzie. Just thought it may be a way to narrow the field of Sarah Braytons that Lizzie went to Europe with.

Anyone who goes after the trunk definitely needs to beware. They do not post the shipping charges which could be horrendous!

Gramma

Need to clear something!
I meant Elizabeth A Brayton...not Elizabeth H. Brayton.
It would have been Elizabeth H Brayton's aunt.

Gramma

Where is the relationship shown between your female Tinkham and this George W. Tinkham?  Annd that does not include anything other than an oral memory that this Tinkham thought he had Lizzie's trunk.
Also the claim:
"I HAVE AN ORIGINAL TINKHAM TAG THAT CAME WITH THE TRUNK)" means nothing.  It does not say it belongs to the trunk- it says it came with the trunk.

Is it now assumed this is a Brayton trunk and no longer a Borden trunk?  I don't follow this leap...

(Message last edited Mar-23rd-04  11:21 PM.)

I still don't get the leap to Brayton or how that has a relationship to Lizzie and the trunk on E-bay, but I did look in Borden Genealgy for you for Braytons marrying Bordens:
Here is the Borden lineage:
Richard1
John5
Thomas103
Richard114
Richard120
Abraham208
Andrew218
Lizzie224
.....................

Here is where a Brayton enters:

Thomas103
Deborah116 m. David Brayton, 1742  (Richard114 is her brother)
..........................

Here is another Brayton:
Thomas103
Richard114
Jefferson136
Norman207 m. Nannie J. Brayton, 1874
........................

Last Brayton:
Richard120
Zephaniah216 (Abraham208 is his brother)
Mary C. m. Thomas Brayton, 1862.

--This is the closest Brayton to Lizzie.  Mary C. Brayton would be Andrew's first cousin, daughter of his Uncle.

(Message last edited Mar-24th-04  4:30 AM.)

Bless your heart, Kat, you are a wonder!
But the Brayton connection to the trunk was not by blood (except very distant blood, as you say). It was the fact that Lizzie went to Europe with a Sarah Brayton. They have never pinpointed which Sarah because there were too many. But if we have someone saying this trunk came through a Tinkham family then that may point to Sarah Jane (Tinkham) Brayton as being the one Lizzie travelled with. Sarah Jane's husband also had a sister Sarah S. Brayton and it could also have been her. Sarah S Brayton and Sarah Jane's husband, John Somerfield Brayton were siblings of David Anthony Brayton. David was Elizabeth Hitchcock Brayton's father. It was the EH Brayton house Lizzie could see from her house on French street.
Go to the Privy for a new thread on Anthonys/Braytons/Bordens.

Gramma

It looks like the trunk sold for $250, wow, maybe they knew SLB? 
We hadn't determined where the "L" came from.  Maybe it was Seabury
Bowen or someone else connected to the case? anyway goodbye trunk!