The Lizzie Borden Society archive

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1. " Ya know her, ya love her, ya can't hack it w/o her..."
Posted by adminlizzieborden on Jan-8th-02 at 9:33 PM

By dnslilly on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 12:48 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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I get some 'interesting' ideas when I'm doing tasks that don't require much thought(my cerebrum pretty much works 24/7)...while fixing the bedtime snack this evening I thought I'd ask if anyone here imagines, based on what you/we know of her, if Lizzie would like you and enjoy your company - whether if you'd been alive when she was, or if she were here now...whether for a party, a walk, ride in the country, discussions of philosophy, art, music, theater, or any other scenario you care to mention.

the stage is now yours...

David

 
By dave on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 02:41 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Well, David, before I take to "the stage", let me point out that a few of us dont necessarily find Lizzie to be "always attractive" or just "attractive" period LOL. For the sake of accuracy, lets just call her "aesthetically challenged", u know, to be nice LOL!!! But i guess her face does have a certain charm if u can get beyond the massive jaw, monster lips, huge protruding eyeballs, and out-of-style hairdo LOL. Oh Dave R, u meanie, shame on u! hehehe. Personally, a better question might be: do you think that YOU would enjoy HER company?

Remember, Lizzie was a painfully dull creature, David. If u took her out to a restaurant on a date, chances are you'd be doing most of the talking while Lizzie looked out the window, only half-listening to u and daydreaming about her lesbian love, Nance LOL. But u would do well to try to pursue her and win her love, since she was mega-loaded!!! Then u could marry her and take a mistress and ignore her and spend her money. Thats what i woulda done!!! LOL!!!!!!! j/k. Did u know she couldve afforded an even way more fancy, ostentatious house than Maplecroft if she had wanted? In fact, its a fact that there were plenty of more grand houses and mansions in the Highlands district than Maplecroft. Lizzie's house was just an oversized plain new-er Queen Anne style home, plenty of rooms (and the long-dreamed-of bathtub!) but nothing too fancy.

For yr amusement, heres my humorous little scenario of u and Lizzie together:


LIZZIE: Let me axe u something, David--are u pretty good with a hatchet?
DAVID: Well, my pen is my hatchet. I write music reviews. If I dont like a band, I give them the axe in my review hehehe
LIZZIE: Oh David, stop it. Yr killing me with yr sense of humor, u funny boy.
DAVID (grinning shyly): Oh, Lizzie, u flatter me. Dont say things u dont mean.
LIZZIE: Oh, I never flatter and I never flirt. I guess I'm just like a plain ol' undesirable schoolmarm who never found a husband.
DAVID: Oh dont say that, Lizzie. You know how badly I'd like to get my groove on wit'cha girlfrien' LMAO!!!
LIZZIE: Oh, u say the nicest things, u romantic. But really, I know I'm destined to die "intact."
DAVID: Oh, thats a living death. U dont mean it. No one can live without love.
LIZZIE: Oh, its too late for me. I'll never marry. No man wants me.
DAVID: But Lizzie, I want u! More than ever! More than u know!!
(Passionate kissing scene)

THE END

ROFL!!!!

 
By kashesan on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 09:53 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Wicked funny

 
By kashesan on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 09:55 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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The question sounds familiar

 
By kat on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 11:00 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Is this based on whether I thought her guilty or NOT?
If I thought her guilty, I wouldn't give her the time of day, and probably SHUN her, as the townsfolk did.
If I thought her innocent, and met her at a small party of friends, I would probably gravitate to her as she would be a shy wallflower, and I tend to seek those out to put them at their ease, and try to include them in the party-no matter who is host. I tend to take people under my wing... She would instantly seem more interesting to others, under my auspices(there is a way...)
Lizzie never graduated high school, took one Grand Tour a few years before, and did church work. I don't think she'd be too educated or sophisticated and might seem dull. If I saw a "project" in her...the ability and desire to Learn...then I would probably follow-up a friendship, lending her books, and discussing them after, and urging her toward more travel.
Other than that, I don't hang out with murderers or their cohorts, that I know of.

 
By dnslilly on Wednesday, 12/05/2001 - 11:56 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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~If I thought her innocent, and met her at a small party of friends, I would probably gravitate to her ...a shy wallflower,<<<

I'm fascinated by & instantly attracted to people like that.

and I tend to seek those out to put them at their ease, and try to include them in the party-no matter who is host. <<<<<

I do that in a way...I'd engage her in conversation, that's for sure


~Lizzie never graduated high school, took one Grand Tour a few years before, and did church work. I don't think she'd be too educated or sophisticated and might seem dull. <<<<<

ah, but one need not have a great formal education to become erudite. she was a reader. Even if she wasn't scholarly, being literate is a start. anyone can pursue knowledge, wisdom and experiences without school. to clarify: I am NOT condemning HS or college education. I am completely PRO college & education. I applaud anyone who pursues knowledge in or out of college.

If I saw a "project" in her...the ability and desire to Learn...<<<

you sound a bit like me.

actually I guess I was thinking from my perspective that she didn't kill anyone. Even if she did, there wouldn't be any reason for her to harm me cause she wouldn't profit from it.

Dave

 
By dnslilly on Thursday, 12/06/2001 - 12:45 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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allow me to interject

For yr amusement, heres my humorous little scenario of u and Lizzie together: <<<

yes, "humerous" is a good adjective for this, Mr. R. loosely, anyway. ;-p

LIZZIE: Let me axe u something, David--are u pretty good with a hatchet? <<<<

if I were a songwriter, I'd probably write something cheap and hip, like "u r 2 fun-e"
but dont shoot me, I'm just the reviewer. hey! speaking of that...but you know me, ANYthing for Lizzie

DAVID: Well, my pen is my hatchet. I write music reviews. If I dont like a band, I give them the axe in my review hehehe <<<

aha! you've read the profile, but not the work. shame on you.

LIZZIE: Oh David, stop it. Yr killing me with yr sense of humor, u funny boy.
DAVID (grinning shyly): Oh, Lizzie, u flatter me. Dont say things u dont mean. <<<<

uh oh, I can already feel the room heating up. excuse me! waiter! bring my fly some soup, please. to which Liz replies,...oh, I'd better not say it here

LIZZIE: Oh, I never flatter and I never flirt. I guess I'm just like a plain ol' undesirable schoolmarm who never found a husband.
DAVID: Oh dont say that, Lizzie. You know how badly I'd like to get my groove on wit'cha girlfrien' LMAO!!! <<<<

everything is accurate except the "LMAO" part. she "senses" that I find undesirable ol schoolmarms very desirable.

LIZZIE: Oh, u say the nicest things, u romantic. But really, I know I'm destined to die "intact."<<<

DAVID: Ohhhhh, not necessarily my hatchet-wielding...er uh I mean, turtledove.

LIZZIE: Oh, its too late for me. I'll never marry. No man wants me.
DAVID: But Lizzie, I want u! More than ever! More than u know!! <<<<

clever, but it's become obvious to her that self-depracating, nerdy chatter "excites" me.

I apologize to the admn of the board for this, but I had to have a little fun with Dave R's goofy reply to my post.

David

 
By tina on Thursday, 12/06/2001 - 01:03 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Neat question.... I would probably talk with her, go out to lunch etc. I myself am quite the shy keep to myself and family type, and attracted to others like me, and tend to end up befriending the ones more outgoing for dreaming sake. But I would, just because.... Simple, short but sweet.

 
By stefani on Thursday, 12/06/2001 - 03:01 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Well, just because she owned books doesn't mean she read any of them. We also know she had a library card. Wonder if the library in Fall River would keep a record of the books she checked out. Now THAT would be insteresting.

If I met Lizzie at a party and knew who she was, I would probably just sit and stare (without being seen staring, that is). I have met celebrities in my day, and I am always hesitant to bother them. I figure they get a lot of that and I would just be one of the crowd if I also reacted that way. I would be self-conscious and leave her be. I think.

 
By raystephanson on Thursday, 12/06/2001 - 06:24 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Didn't E Radin's book, and E Pearson both say that Lizzie was an accomplished conversationalist? Could "dave" be wrong again?
Whatever did they mean?

 
By kat on Thursday, 12/06/2001 - 09:59 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Again, we have "dueling impressions" of Lizzie.

It really is "documented' by Pearson, in his Trial-that he DID speak to living friends and acquaintances of Lizzie, and that she was a "commonplace conversationalist." (That should answer 2 of your questions).

This forum has a unique (to me) archival system. At the TOP of "Pearson's Perspective" Thread, there is a yellow box with filed items in it. (I think after about 10 posts, the beginning ones get "filed")--so if you're at a loss to find something you KNOW you read here, click on that box at the start of a Thread, and there are the past posts.

Hence, by going to "Pearson's Perspective" thread, and doing what was just described, you will find the post, by kat dated 11/20, 6:41.

There is the info you seek, Ray, as to Pearson.
Someone more familiar with Radin will have to answer that one. However, I only remember Hiram Harrington saying Lizzie was a "brilliant conversationalist" in a newspaper interview. He may have had an "agenda", or he may not have made the interview, though there is compelling reasoning involved that he DID.
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"A friend of many years describes her as unimpressive in appearance, timid and shy in manner! All other considerations aside, says this friend, Miss Borden lacked the courage and initiative to commit a crime. She saw, of course, no dreadful possibilities in any of Miss Lizzie's features." (82)(Trial of L.B.)

 
By dave on Friday, 12/07/2001 - 12:08 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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No Ray, apparently it isnt me who's "wrong"

 
By dave on Friday, 12/07/2001 - 01:46 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Perhaps Lizzie was BOTH a good conversationalist and a commonplace one, maybe both claims are true, depending on what stage of life Lizzie was in or who was in her company. I know this girl who's quite shy and timid around people she doesnt know, but very outgoing when she feels comfortable with people she knows.

 
By kashesan on Saturday, 12/08/2001 - 12:07 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Exactly Dave-people aren't one dimensional, I'm sure to some people she was dull as dishwater, to others she may have been charming and funny. We'll never know..

 
By raystephanson on Saturday, 12/08/2001 - 06:29 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Like eyewitness testimony, "the truth is in the eye of the beholder". It may depend on the point of view.
By dave on Saturday, 12/08/2001 - 06:53 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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True, Kash. Lizzie seems to have been a complex and conflicting mix of personality traits.

 
By dnslilly on Saturday, 12/08/2001 - 11:33 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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~Lizzie seems to have been a complex and conflicting mix of personality traits. <<<

Yes, dave, all the more reason why I would be attracted to her. besides all those simultaneously attractive & undesireable physical features you mentioned, her inner self must've been just what you said...what more could I want? (had I been alive back then). unless you want to raise the issue of reincarnation, and that's a whole other Arborwood/neighborhood.

David...& Lizzie & Nance

 
By dave on Sunday, 12/09/2001 - 10:53 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Dave L, what would yr wife say if she saw u mooning over Lizzie like this?  LOL

Heres my humorous scenario of me and u fighting over Lizzie; rather pathetic actually heh:


DAVE L: No, Dave R, shes mine! I like her for herself, u just want her for her money!
DAVE R: Well I'm not after her for her looks, thats for certain.
DAVE L: You shallow, insensitive, self-important dickwad, theres more to a girl than boobs and a pretty face!
DAVE R: I know. Theres also a nice ass and nice legs, hopefully.
DAVE L: Errgh! U make me so mad! I'll kick yr ass if u say another bad thing about Lizzie!
DAVE R: Hey, I'll say what I please--I've always done a good job of that --Lizzie had ugly hands. Everything about her was manly; she was a bulldyke LOL
DAVE L: Thats it, Dave R! U r dead!
(Dave L goes after Dave R and Dave R gets his ass sooooo kicked, his mother no longer recognizes him)



 
By kashesan on Monday, 12/10/2001 - 09:57 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Sorry guys, I gots a feelin' she would have preferred ME! (While you two are kicking each others asses, Kathleen and Lizzie slip out the back)

 
By tina on Tuesday, 12/11/2001 - 07:55 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Tina moves in with Lizzie and leaves the daves fighting it out on the street corner...(waving from the window!!!)
Tina

 
By dave on Tuesday, 12/11/2001 - 10:23 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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LOL

Hey, maybe Lizzie preferred sausage to tuna! 

Oh come on, cant me an' Dave L at least just watch? hehehe

 
By kashesan on Wednesday, 12/12/2001 - 10:01 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Hey Tina,
I saw her first! (Guys-go rent a movie, we dont want interruptions)

 
By raystephanson on Friday, 12/14/2001 - 06:31 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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I remember (?) E.Radin's book quoting a contemporary that Lizzie was a good mixer, and not a cloistered "old maid" like Emma.

You can read that book, if you can find it.

 
By dnslilly on Thursday, 12/27/2001 - 11:11 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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GEEZ! I'm sorry I've been absent from here! I finished the A.R. Brown book & was settled that Bill was the culprit....and in my absence there's been some tasty & heated goings on here! I have to agree 100% with Dave R...whether Kash or Tina gets Liz, either one is ok, but even better if it's both....2 or 3 of ya together is many a man's greatest fantasy (and for a fortunate few, more like a reality ;-p)

Dave L

 
By kashesan on Friday, 12/28/2001 - 11:09 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Dream on

 
By dave on Monday, 12/31/2001 - 04:55 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Hey Kash, it appears that David L has stolen my Nance and your Lizzie. I guess we'll have to content ourselves with just looking in thru Lizzie's upstairs bedroom window. I'll get a ladder from the adjoining shed and we can take turns climbing it and looking in as David L gets all the p***y he can eat LOL!!! And all we can do is eat our hearts out!!! LMAO!!!!

Hey Dave L., how'd u get such charisma with the ladies? Whats yr secret? 

 
By dnslilly on Tuesday, 01/01/2002 - 03:31 am [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Kash:
Dreaming on I am ;-p...as Mick Jagger sang during my youth, "lose your dreams and you will lose your mind"...besides, I'm ok with lesbianism. I'm not joking.

Dave R:
~David L gets all the p***y he can eat<<<

where is Steven Tyler when I need him? talk about "dream on"

~Hey Dave L., how'd u get such charisma with the ladies? Whats yr secret? <<<

I think it doesn't hurt that I love cats, feed the cats regularly, & change the litter box...And they love how I switch so easily from Black Sabbath/Ozzy to Sade...but most of all, I'm hot for Lizbeth even though she died when my parents were small children.

David

 
By kashesan on Wednesday, 01/02/2002 - 02:23 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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Dave,
You dare come out of the closet as being hot for Lizbeth? Wow, thats guts!

 
By dnslilly on Thursday, 01/03/2002 - 08:33 pm [Edit] [Reply] [Msg Link]  
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You dare come out of the closet as being hot for Lizbeth? Wow, thats guts! <<<<

not guts, just unusual taste