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1. "Did She Or Didn't She?"
Posted by Kat on Jan-5th-02 at 3:30 AM

(Message last edited Jan-5th-02  3:40 AM.)

The New Bedford Evening Standard, Friday, June 16, 1893
-2 small articles, seperated by one:

"Hunting For A Hidden Fortune.
Salem, Mass., June 16--The relatives of Henry Morgan, whose body was not found until two weeks after his death, are looking for a small fortune hidden about the house.  It is claimed that there is $3000 hidden there."

"Fatal Accident In Taunton.
Taunton, June 16.--John Ryan, aged 66, fell down stairs last night and broke his neck, dying instantly."

--Why weren't the Borden murders carried out a bit more discreetly?

Why couldn't Abby have discreetly fallen down the stairs, and that would have "bought time" for the inheritence motive?  THEY could have waited to see what Andrew would do...

Wasn't there reference to a banana peel on the back stairs somewhere? Or was it just Lizzie eating a banana at breakfast?

Speaking of banana peels, there is a rather odd incident in the Witness statements (pages 15-16) in Doherty's notes:

"Friday 12, 1892. Harrington. At the Borden house all forenoon assisting on the safe.
Afternoon. Doherty, Medley and Harrington continue on the Frank Wade clue. Got a boat and rakes, and went all over the pond where he saw the suspicious person. We pulled up much stuff and things, but failed to find the hatchet which he thought might be thrown there. We brought back to the station a paper bag which contained an old banana peel, which was tied up with a very long string. This was very suspicious indeed."

Maybe Kash, she tried to combine the banana peel with a string across the steps but it failed and she dumped it in the pond.

I always thought some far easier way could have been found of getting Abby out of the way.  Those front and back steps would indeed have made an inviting method.

You guys are Brill.!
That's IT!
The intended muder weapon, found in the pond all along!
I did envision a string across the front stairs, actually.  Then if Abby didn't die outright, she could be finished off with a blow by the "flat" to a wound already made.

Why did Andrew HAVE to die?  Because obviously now we know he did HAVE to.
He was 70, and as a new widower, the girls could have wrapped him around their little fingers, getting all kinds of things out of him.  I think he would have recognized his own pending mortality and maybe even sunk into depression, or "stroked" from the stress. But someone couldn't WAIT....

I think there was a time element involved.  I think something was going to happen - like Andrew redoing his will or something else having to do with money - and time was of the essence.  I tend to go along with most who think that Andrew would have known straight off Lizzie was the one who killed Abby, so he had to go.

Lizzie did try to do them in more discreetly with the poison.    Don't discount this as not happening because it's not in the final trial transcripts.

Maybe she did try a string or a banana peel.  But I don't know why she would feel the need to get rid of a common banana peel in a pond.  She could have just thrown it away at home, where they had bananas.  There's nothing to say that she didn't try other methods prior to August.  That's an interesting thought. 

I think she wanted a sure thing.  Once the poison didn't work as she had hoped, she chose the axe.  It seems like time was closing in on her.  I don't think it was just her emotions - she was pressed for time. 

What is the "Frank Wade clue"?  Harry, is there an additional source for this other than the Witness Papers?     

If Abby alone died that day, by seeming Accident, then all Andrew's plans (for will, for business) would be suspended and negated.  And there would be no suspicion, as there would be with hatchet or poison.

Augusta,I believe the Wade clue was that he said he had seen a suspicious person (sex not defined) throw something into the pond.

That is the only place I seen the Wade lead mentioned. There doesn't appear to be anything else on it in the Witness statements.  There must have been a lot of false leads that the police chased down.

I was just kidding about Lizzie. I don't think she had anything to do with it.

Medley, Harrington etc found in the pond an old banana peel tied up with a very long string?? Is this for real? I'm trying very hard but I cant make head or tail of it. It says absolutely nothing to me, hard tho I try to figure out this little riddle . I wonder why anyone would tie a string around a banana peel. Or maybe I'm missing something.

That's what it says Dave.  Beats the heck out of me too.

I wonder why Doherty found this "very suspicious indeed". More like weird indeed.  Hilliard must have loved it when he brought it back to the station and dumped it on his desk. 

U got it Harry. Maybe the banana was only half-eaten and Doherty was offering the rest to Hilliard when he dumped it on his desk (yuk, yuk)--more like (yuck, yuck)

I remember when I first read that (I had forgotten it) I thought someone had tried to go fishing with a banana as bait!  Then I thought someone had thrown their lunch in there.

Do we know anymore about Frank Wade?  He's listed in the back of Hoffman's Yesterday In Old Fall River, pg. 401 as "Witnesses Defense-did not testify".
Pg. 357-Frank C. Wade:
"Frank C. Wade was interviewed by Fall River policemen Patrick Doherty and Philip Harrington on August 12, 1892.  Wade reported that he saw a strange man near a pond acting suspiciously soon after the Borden murders.  Officers Harrington, Doherty, and William Medley dragged the pond but found nothing connected to the Borden case."

--adds nothing to what Harry already said.
--wonder why the defense listed him....

Ok, I am somewhat new to the Lizzie Borden Society and although I have been fascinated with the case since high school when I did every AP English Project on the case, I am still WAY behind all of you.  Please, let me introdue myself, I am Katrina G. Smith, and I am Lizzie Borden reincarnated.
First hand I will tell you, Lizzie is innocent.  She would never have committed such a terrible crime, it just wasn't in her.  In my studies of Criminal Profiling for my Criminology Class, I have become fmore knowledgable on how to profile killers.  Lizzie just didn't have it in her.  Now I have read Lizzie by Frank Speiring, A Private Disgrace by Victoria Lincoln and others.  By far, the theory of William Borden and the "Mellonhouse Gang"  seems to be the most likely in my eyes. 
I welcome any new information that I could obtain on this fascinating case.  I am planning on deocorating my room with any type of pictures, etc., that I can find.
Thank you,
Lizzie A. Borden