1. "Elizabeth Engstrom"
Posted by Tina-Kate on Mar-11th-03 at 6:19 PM

Has anyone read her novel "Lizzie Borden"?  c. 1990 or so.

Out of print now, but I was wondering if anyone has read it & what they thought.  Haven't found any reviews.  Don't think it went beyond 1st edition paperback.

Hopefully no one trying to learn about the case will use this book as a reference point.  I know it's fiction -- but I didn't recognize anyone in this novel at all. Lizzie appears to suffer from some form of Multiple Personality Disorder, and Emma's a bit of a drinker. (Alice Russell, however, has a nice husband and they live in "a modest little house with a lovely garden".) Lizzie has a host of lesbian fantasies and a few same-sex encounters. Most of the book deals with these unrequited love affairs. The murders happen at the very end of the book but details regarding that day don't agree with any recorded testimony.  For example, Lizzie breakfasts on three split biscuits ladled with hot gravy (that Abby baked fresh that morning in an effort to impress John Morse). And, when Lizzie comes down on Thursday, Abby is in the sitting room talking with a strange woman. After their conversation, Abby comes into the dining room to say to Lizzie: "There's a birthing and it could be trouble, I'll have to go."

Lawdy, Miz Scarlett!  Abby don't know nuthin' bout .....

OOO!  That's good, Diana!
Can you write up a review for the Museum/Library?
It would only need a bit more substance...this is plenty good.

It's funny but I can't remember that book.

We should RATE each book we talk about!
I was thinking last night whoever starts a book thread, after discussion, we could give thumbs up or hatchets up or cleavers down, or one pansy or 2, as a rating system.
What would you guys rate the Engstrom?

BTW:  What brought this book up?

I just looked and I have that book by Engstrom, she writes in
the beginning "there is an astonishingly tiny universe of
knowledge about Lizzie Borden.."  How true, and why this case
is so compelling, we know so little compared to today's media
where we know everything.  I also found a small paperback by
Edward D. Radin, 1961 with notes from a previous owner in
shorthand or some other weird language.  I found all my Lizzie
Borden Quarterly's from 10 years ago, is Jules still around?
I think it would be a great idea to list and rate all the Lizzie
books, I would love to help out if anyone interested.  We could
ask everyone on this forum to rate the books and give opinions,
then sort and summarize. I'm a nerd like that, sorry but I would
love to do it if anyone interested.
 

Thanks, Diana...sounds like you wrapped it up in a nutshell!  Also sounds pretty amusing to a Bordenite.  A lot of liberties taken, & obviously no fact checker took a role in the book's production.  In school (I took publishing) we were taught even fiction should have its factual elements carefully checked.

Kat -- I keep finding this book on Lizzie book searches (tho you can only get it thru "used" dealers).  I've never actually seen this book & wondered if it had any merit.  Didn't remember any mention of it here (which I suppose was a good indication it was a lemon).

I found it an amusing read, but, have forgotten or tried to forget most of the details so I don't get them screwed up with the reality of the case.  I'm forever doing that! 

Book reviews are done by readers on Amazon.com.  You just find the book and click on "customer reviews".  I wrote one on there for this book.  There may be others on there as well.  Unfortunately, we can't cut and paste them here; Amazon owns all the reviews posted to their site.

We should have a special thread that only holds book reviews.  That's a cute idea - hatches up or hatchets down.  Or how many pansies it gets. 

I thought Lizzie was made too sympathetic a character.  Lizzie is the murderer in this book.  And it's like she killed her parents but it's OKAY.  The character of Emma was terrible.  It made no historical sense at all.  Emma would disappear for days to go get drunk and let men beat her up. 

I forgot about Abby making the biscuits that morning.  I wonder why the author felt the need to do it like that?   

What I did get out of this book that was positive, was that it gave me an idea of how claustrophobic that house was and how that affected its occupants.  I think Ms. Engstrom did a good job on that.  I never stopped and thought much about that before. 





(Message last edited Mar-13th-03  1:37 PM.)

Book reviews are done by readers on Amazon.com.  You just find the book and click on "customer reviews".  I wrote one on there for this book.  There may be others on there as well.  Unfortunately, we can't cut and paste them here; Amazon owns all the reviews posted to their site.

We should have a special thread that only holds book reviews.  That's a cute idea - hatches up or hatchets down.  Or how many pansies it gets. 

I thought Lizzie was made too sympathetic a character.  Lizzie is the murderer in this book.  And it's like she killed her parents but it's OKAY.  The character of Emma was terrible.  It made no historical sense at all.  Emma would disappear for days to go get drunk and let men beat her up. 

I forgot about Abby making the biscuits that morning.  I wonder why the author felt the need to do it like that?   

What I did get out of this book that was positive, was that it gave me an idea of how claustrophobic that house was and how that affected its occupants.  I think Ms. Engstrom did a good job on that.  I never stopped and thought much about that before. 

Here's the cover if you've not seen it:

here you go Augusta!

Nice cover, tho.

Thanks for the Amazon tip, Augusta.

A drunken Emma, trolling for men who beat her up.  Tsk, tsk.  If Emma ever drank...I'd see it on the sly with a hidden bottle she stretched out for as long as possible.

This has all been very informative & I doubt I'll waste any $ getting this book.

Thanks, all!

NOW I remember that book.
Emma drunk in out-of-town hotel rooms!
Of course!

Thanks Augusta.

As far as we knew, neither Emma or Lizzie were "drunks" or imbibed anything stroger than communion wine. Could they have sampled while visiting a social occasion? Yes, but no more than any others of their position in society. Emma definitely looks to me like a teetotaller; alcohol does contain calories.

Thank you for posting the cover, Stef.  I am out of practice. 

Sometimes even a bad Lizzie book (I'm not saying this one was 'bad' - but most of it was too far out to take seriously) can be an investment.  Lizzie books seems to sell out pretty fast.  But for reading, I'd say this one is safe to skip. 

I agree, now that I've been reminded of the content.
It does take a reader where there is no point in going...

Doesn't this writer have a website or didn't she used to?

Got it in one, Kat! 

http://www.elizabethengstrom.com/

I am re-reading Victoria Lincoln, but after seeing Engstrom's
web site, I want to re-read that book too!  Have to admit, more
fun reading than "the Knowlton Papers". 

Thanks!  I didn't know about the "Maui" connection, and when I did a Google search I found pages of stuff but stopped short of this site, obviously.
That was helpful...appreciate it!

I saw on Amazon.com today that Engstrom's book is now out of print.  These Lizzie books sometimes sell like wildfire.  Let's all write books! 

(Message last edited Mar-24th-03  3:09 AM.)