1. "The Two Uncles"
Posted by Kat on Jan-8th-03 at 9:18 AM

I can't figure out why the 2 uncles of Lizzie & Emma weren't considered more suspect in a conspiracy, then Lizzie herself.

Hiram Harrington is the only one who Lizzie ever names as being not on good terms with her father.  That's a heavy arrow to sling at her own uncle, under oath.

He obviously is not enamoured of her either.

But the very fact that she named her suspect should have made him extra-suspicious to us and the authorities.

Then there is that BRown question:  "Why did he go there?"
The newspaper printed the story that Friday night, Aug. 5th, Uncle Morse went to visit Turner St., the street upon which Hiram lived.

The year after the crime finds Hiram & wife, Andrew's sister, living on Franklin St., seemingly a better part of town then Turner St.
Hiram was put into the newspapers as having visited Lizzie at Second Street the evening of the murders, especially to speak to Lizzie & to get her story.

From The Fall River DAILY GLOBE - August 6, 1 1892
"INTENSE EXCITEMENT
...He [Morse] returned to the house with the mail [Friday] and shortly after nine o'clock reappeared and walked down to Main Street where he boarded a Bowenville car. Officer Minnehan was also an the car and shadowed the man to the house on Turner Street He made but a short stay and returned again directly to the Borden house."
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/NewResearch/BrownControversy.htm
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Witness Statements
Pg. 11
"Hiram Harrington. 'When the perpetrator of this foul deed is found, it will be one of the household. I had a long talk with Lizzie yesterday, Thursday, the day of the murder..."

"He spoke at some length about her telling about the same story as was published in the News and Globe of Friday evening."

(Doherty & Harrington)
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We've got 2 uncles who are seemingly disparate, meeting with each other Thursday & Friday nights.  As close male relatives to the orphans this may not seem odd but it is one of the few times Hiram is actually allowed in or wants to enter the house..because his disliked brother-in-law is now dead...and then there is the very fact that Morse showed up in time for a double murder--what are those odds?  Then he goes to Turner St. to see Hiram, Friday?

Also found a loophole in Morse's Inquest testimony, pg. 102, the first time he answers as to where and how he went away Thursday morning...:

Inquest
Morse
Pg. 101-2

Q.  Did you say where you was going?
A.  Yes Sir. He [Andrew] was telling the night before, up at Mr. Emery's I had a nephew and niece from the West, and he told me where they lived, and wanted me to go and see them.

Q.  Did he tell you where they lived?
A: Yes Sir, 4 Weybosset street.

Q.  Did you tell him you were going?
A.  Yes Sir. As I went out the door, he says "John, come back to dinner with us." That is the last he spoke to me.  I said I would. I came to the Post Office and got a car

If Andrew gave him directions along with the suggestion to take the car, then it's possible Morse left Second Street later than he admits...a car might save him up to 10 minutes on that mile walk...10 minutes which could be crucial.

----Also, Hiram's wife, Lurana, is supposedly sick Thursday, according to Hiram.
Lurana, on Saturday, is not listed as attending the funeral at the house, or the graveside service.  This is odd...Andrew's last remaining close relative, other than his daughters....










(Message last edited Jan-8th-03  9:22 AM.)

What is it that they say about murderers and robbers returning to the scene of the crime?  Possibly to view their handiwork?  It sounds plausible that Hiram could have done it, just to get rid of Andrew.  But, what would John gain from losing Andrew, thats the question that came to my mind. 

Hiram may not have liked the way that Andrew treated his sister and himself and that gives him a motive to, at least, dislike Andrew.  Was there any gain from Andrew's death to Lurana and Hiram?  Meaning monetarily or property-wise?  I'm trying to think of a way that John Morse would profit from the deaths to help Hiram?  This is definitely a new facet to the Borden murder to examine. 

That's an interesting find Kat about Morse's trip to Weybosset Street by car.  I looked at his trial testimony (page 138):

Q.  And that does not give us the distance from the Borden house. Will you give us the distance from the Borden house or about the distance?
A.  Well, probably a mile and a quarter.
Q.  Did you walk there or drive there?
A.  I walked there.

Then on the return trip:

Q.  You did return to the Borden house, did you, that morning?
A.  Yes, sir.
Q.  How did you come?
A.  On the cars, horse cars

....

Q.  Where did you leave the car?
A.  At the corner of Pleasant and Second Streets.
Q.  That is not far from the Borden house, I believe?
A.  Not a great ways.
Q.  How did you go to the Borden house then?
A.  Walked.

On the return trip he states he both rode and walked while on the trip to the Emery's he just walked. No mention of a car.

It's probably not critical but coming from a man who achieved a certain notoriety for exactly describing his trip home it is rather strange. And you are right if he did ride to his niece's there may be some unaccounted time.  We need to dig out the time Morse arrived at the Emery's.  I know someone spoke of seeing him arrive.

Good find, Kat.  I had only known that Morse walked to Weybosset and took the car home.  Did he slip in his testimony?  Or was he mixed up and accidentally blurted out that he took the car there, when he meant he took it home? 

Yes, Lizzie's mention of Hiram Harrington as a suspect is fascinating.  How did the police clear Harrington?  Where was he during the murders?  I think we established earlier that Harrington was full of cookies when he said he talked to Lizzie that long, or at least that was our collective opinion.  

It takes me 20 minutes walking at an average pace to do one mile.  A mile and a quarter would take me 25 minutes. Taking a car should cut down his time considerably. 

How do we know Morse went to Harrington's house?  Was there someone else he could have visited on Turner Street?  It sounds suspiciously like he dropped in on Hiram.  It's intriguing.  

One thing to remember is that the Bordens didn't have a phone.  If they wanted to communicate with other members of the clan, they had to pay a personal visit or send a note via someone else.  In the period following the murder, there were many preparations to be made for the funeral and (planned) interment, for example.  Somebody had to carry the word, and Uncle John was probably that somebody at least part of the time.

Remember too that in Uncle John's testimony he gave great detailed information to the police regarding his ride by car.  He gave the car number, the Conductor's number (from the man's hat), the ticket number he used (rather unusal for even a casusal rider) and he recalled a number of priests who were riding in the car as well. 

I'm not too bright about these things but these details are rather too detailed for a man who is without guilt.  It occurs to me that if a person were to construct an "air-tight" alibi such a person would make note of these finite details.

I too share in the suspicion that both Unc's had a finger or two in the crime but to what extent?  Let's work this further....and as always, that's my story and you know the rest....

BC

Actually Uncle Morse didn't really testify to the conductor's cap number etc.
He doesn't mention the priests in testimony either.
Some enterprising detective and/or journalist, or both, *proved* his story of being on the car for the return trip.  There is something in the Sourcebook, I believe about the six priests....that is a collection of news articles.
Not to infer it didn't happen, only that if it did, it was probably behind the scenes and we hear it second or third hand.
Ckeck Lincoln, and then ask her her source!
(While you were gone we have been getting sick over Lincoln's unprovable info...)