Lizzie Conspired w/Hyman Lubinsky?

[Denise_Noe]

In this essay, http://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetOn ... insky.html
I elaborate on a theory put forward by a friend of mine -- that Lizzie Borden and Hyman Lubinsky conspired together in these murders. Does anyone believe this is possible?

What do you think of the case made in my essay?

[Constantine]

Yeah, right!

[mbhenty]

If there was ever a man or women more innocent and honest to take the stand at Lizzie Borden's trial I believe it was Hyman Lubinsky.

A man who would look into your window to see who was home so he could sell you ice cream.

A peeping tom? Perhaps. But an honest one




Q. Whereabouts on Rock Street did you go?
A. Peddled on the streets.

Q. You went along holloaing ice cream?
A. I don't do any holloaing.

Q. Did you go from house to house?
A. I went to the house and looked in the windows and see people and I sell the cream.

[Denise_Noe]

Did you read my article?
Don't you think it at least odd that Hyman Lubinsky eventually resided in the house where the murders were committed?

[LABRhush]

Very interesting article!

[twinsrwe]

Welcome back, LABR! It's good to see you posting again.

[mbhenty]

Yes Ms. Noe, I remember your article very well. An excellent appraisal of events on the day of the murders... and nicely written. Your argument holds merit at least in the scope of argument. And a fitting argument worthy of inspection, whether authenticated or not.

You were right to point out that Hyman stumbled on the stand when questioned. I accepted this as confusion to the questioning. Perhaps trying to sort out the correct answer... nervousness. A question may have more ways then one in the way it is addressed when one is not certain to what is being asked. I find that may be the truth in Hyman's case.

In a firsthand evaluation, I have seen it countless of times. Sometimes laced with humor. I grew up in an enclave of immigrants, Portuguese, who did not speak the language and interpreted what was being said as something else. I discovered that immigrants did not like getting involved in what they did not feel they were a part. But if they did, they were mostly if not always honest if not blunt. If an immigrant could not be honest he or she would try to not get involved and mind their own business.

With the Portuguese most of the time what appeared to be a lie was a misunderstanding to what was being said or what was going on around them. I had a good feeling of their perception. After all, I spoke their language and was a son of immigrants who did not speak the English or were familiar with traditions and practices of a foreign land. Whether this was Hyman's problem with his somewhat dubious retorts, l don't know.

But it is interesting if not speculative that Hyman would end up living at 92. Was it payola. Perhaps. But if so it could have been only on Lizzie's part remembering the Jewish stranger who spoke the turth, and remembering the unexpected testimony by Hyaman which spoke to her declaration to being outside, or on the way from the barn. (which I believe to be somewhat true)

You mentioned that Hyman was divorced and how unusual it was. Not so. Though divorce is not accepted in Christian doctrine it is dealt with in religious Jewish law. You can even take the divorce to rabbinical court to dispute it. No such luck if your a christian.

I thought your article went well...until you paired Lizzie and Hyman together.

You speak of David Lee Dickerson. I know to some life is a fuk-fest with father's raping daughters, brothers sleeping with sisters, farmers and sheep. When a writer goes there is when he or she loses me. Too boring for my palate. And when it comes to Lizzie sexual adventures and trials, considering there is no proof of sexual behavior at all on Andrew's part, just monotonous.

And Mr. Dickerson's horny and oversexed point of view is not absolute. People kill with rage for many reasons.

[mbhenty]

On the other hand, I did enjoy your article, namely, A fresh look at Frankenstein.

Mary Shelly has always fascinated me. (No... not that way) That a young lady in the early 1800s would have such a eccentric and unorthodox subject matter to write about. Horror! Amazing. A fresh look at Frankenstein... look it up on https://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetO ... stein.html A good read. But of course you would know that. You wrote it.

[LABRhush]

Thanks Twins! I need to stop by more. Miss you guys

[twinsrwe]

You're welcome, LABR. I really miss you, too. Please don't be a stranger.

[wandashirley]

Hello, I am brand new to this site, and am a bit unclear as to how/when to post or respond. I hope I'm doing this correctly.
I live in the mountains of North Carolina but have visited Fall River three times; on my second visit (1999) I stayed in the Bed & Breakfast for one night, and was the ONLY guest in the house!
I have been studying this case since 1964, when I was fifteen years old. My introduction to the Borden case was Edward Radin's "Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story." I was so interested in the case, I wrote Radin a letter and he responded, which was quite a thrill to me at the time. :-) Coincidentally, his letter to me is dated August 4, 1964.
A portion of my upstairs library is dedicated to the Borden case, and contains almost every book/publication concerning the case.

Do I think that Lizzie conspired with Lubinsky in the murder? Definitely not. I don't think Lizzie would have associated with a man of Lubinsky's "class" long enough to conspire. The two didn't speak the same language --Lubinsky had difficulty understanding and being understood at the trial --which would have been prohibitive. And how would she first have approached him with such a suggestion?

[Denise_Noe]

Did you read my article on the case? The person who suggested the theory, David Lee Dickerson, believes the two of them may have formed a relationship based on a kind of older woman/younger man Oedipal dynamic.

[Denise_Noe]

Did you read my article on the case? The person who suggested the theory, David Lee Dickerson, believes the two of them may have formed a relationship based on a kind of older woman/younger man Oedipal dynamic.

[camgarsky4]

Denise -- this thread is from several months ago, but read your article. Mr. Dickerson's story had a valid start (Lubinsky's testimony) and a finish (Lubinsky living at the Borden house), but the middle seems to have been completely invented. From my perspective, this was just a creative fictional short-story built off the Borden murders. Interesting to read though.

MB -- did Lubinsky really live at the Borden house while Lizzie was the owner? That is a bit surreal.

[mbhenty]

That is funny, is it not.... surreal as you put it.

Lizzie and her sister sold 92 second street in 1918 to a fellow named John Dunn who in turn sold it two years later.

Lubinsky lived there between 1917 and 1919.

So indeed, the Borden sisters rented the house to Young Hyman. (Or old Hyman by then)

Of course this could have been done without Lizzie ever running into Hyman since Cook or some other business associate probably took care of such income business for the sisters.

An interesting point, and one which would take some investigation and research, is that 92 started life as a two apartment house and some time later was converted to a 2 family house once again.

Question being, did the Borden sisters have the house converted back to a 2 family This would give them almost twice the rent. So did Hyman rent just one floor or the entire house I don't remember this topic ever coming up with my contemporaries or having read about it.

I worked in 92 back in 1971. Well, actually.... I had a wiring job for the printing company next door. I was shown around the first floor at the time. There was a door between the business and the actual house, through the kitchen. It's a window today. At the time the kitchen was stacked with banker boxes. It's where they stored their paperwork, I suppose. They couldn't show me the 2nd floor because someone was living there. The owner was eager show me the place. I wasn't interested but took her up on it just to please her and be polite. My only interest at the time was probably the blonde I met at the nightclub the night before. Boy..... that was almost 50 years ago. Well before the "Lizzie Craze."

Hyman died two or three year later, after living at the borden house. TB I think. He was in his late forties.

[camgarsky4]

Thanks! Take your pick...."It's a small world" or "Borden stuff is just weird"!

Since this sale was well past the point of sister-split, bet those biz managers had some interesting stories to tell when it came to jointly owned properties. Especially when it came to selling that particular home.

[MaryM]

On the other hand, I did enjoy your article, namely, A fresh look at Frankenstein.

Mary Shelly has always fascinated me. (No... not that way) That a young lady in the early 1800s would have such a eccentric and unorthodox subject matter to write about. Horror! Amazing. A fresh look at Frankenstein... look it up on https://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetO ... stein.html A good read. But of course you would know that. You wrote it.

Mary Shelley carried a heavy burden, the legacy of her mother, Mary Wollstonecraft, and that her mother died giving birth to her. She also surrounded herself with a bad crowd, if you thought A Modern Prometheus, aka Frankenstein was something you should read her, The Last Man.