John Gilbert Lacombe- getaway driver?

[Singer7j]

I found the man named Lacombe that Lizzie Borden's attorney, Arthur Phillips, interviewed in the 3 page letter that he wrote. IMO Lacombe could have been the man seen in front of the Borden house the morning of the murders. I'm posting the letter and a photo of Lacombe.

[Singer7j]

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[Singer7j]

I take back what I said years ago on this board about my belief that George E Howe as possibly being the man seen outside the Borden house the morning of the Murders.

[Singer7j]

I also have a number of Newspaper articles about him in case anyone is interested.

[camgarsky4]

Hi Singer! Have you posted before on the forum?
Thanks for sharing the pic and letter above.

Would you mind sharing your source for the letter?

Are the newspaper articles you mention regarding George E. Howe? Please share if you think interesting.

[Singer7j]

Hi camgarsky4!
Yes I have posted to this board before.
Mostly between 2002-04 under the post "Jefferys Theory".
I am Jeffery.
Here is my source for the letter and no the articles are not regarding George E Howe
They are about John G Lacombe.

[Singer7j]

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[Singer7j]

Please read from the bottom up
Sorry about that

[camgarsky4]

Thanks Singer (aka Jeffrey ).
Curious now who has the original copy of this letter from Phillips to Robinson. I would guess the Fall River Historical Society....but would be good to confirm.

My 'uneasiness' with relying on Phillips recollections via this letter and his pre-book newspaper articles, is that he is not crisp on adhering to the known facts. This is frustrating since I would hope a lawyer would have a better grasp on the intricate details of his cases, particularly when he seems to have had the assignment to 'nail down' the various statements in prep for trial.

Extract from Phillips letter.....
Now during the hours of the murder, an ex-police Marshall of Fall River named Chace was present in a little stable which he owned almost directly across from the Borden house. He saw a horse and wagon parked for a long while under the trees during the interval between the two murders. Our investigation showed that the wagon was of unusual type and was recognized as having been in a stable where Mr. Morse had kept horses, but Mr. Chace did not recognize the horse. He thought it strange that the outfit should have been under the trees for so long a time, but he thought it probably due to the fact that it was left in the shade while the occupants were doing shopping down street, the day being too hot to allow a horse to stand in the open.
Of course, someone was seen standing in the gate at the Borden house. Dr. Handy described him; so, did another witness. We could not possibly identify the man, but he looked very much like a man named Lacombe who also drove horses from this same stable. Of course, we did not dare to mention the name, and as far as I know it has never been lisped expect by these sheriffs and by myself. The man has long since died, but his wife died only about two months ago. Sheriff Graham, the other of the two sheriffs, told me that he talked with Lacombe with Mr. Hanscom shortly after the murder and that Lacombe, while denying any knowledge of the horse or wagon, upon questioning became very nervous and pleaded very hard that no publicity should be given to him because of his absolute ignorance of the affair. As we could prove nothing, we said nothing, but Mr. Graham is still living and still believes that Mr. Lacombe was connected with the wagon in question though, of course, we never suspected that he committed the murders.

In these paragraphs, Phillips seems to be suggesting the man Delia Manley, Dr. Handy and Mark Chace all reported seeing, were one and the same. However, Delia's man was seen around 10a.m., Chace saw the buggy around 11 a.m. and Handy's 'wild eyed' gentleman somewhere in between. Also Delia's description was not consistent w/ Dr. Handy's.

Not sure how Graham and Phillips formed the opinion that the buggy driver was LaCombe, when no one reported seeing the driver's face.

What is your confidence that Phillips/Graham are accurate in there assessments? I do agree that there are very interesting kernels of info in Phillips articles, book and letters. Just need to parse thru it all and figure what's usable vs. not.

[camgarsky4]

Singer - your post has got me going back and rereading all the testimony, etc. about who saw what on Second Street that morning. What I can't find in testimony or witness statements are Officer Joseph Hyde's observations of a man in front of the Borden home roughly the same time that Dr. Handy saw his 'wild eyed man'. Seems to only be mentioned in newspaper articles.
Hoping you might know of an 'official' source that I have overlooked to get a clear idea of what Hyde saw compared to Handy.

What I find strange is that the defense called Handy to testify at the trial about what he saw, but did not ask Hyde about the episode when they cross examined Hyde. Hyde's trial testimony was centered around seeing Lizzie and Alice go to the cellar night of August 4. Nothing about what he saw pre-murder. Seems like a no brainer for the defense to try and get Hyde to corroborate Handy's observations.
Hyde did not testify at the Inquest nor the Preliminary Hearing.

Example where inconsistent observations, might not be inconsistent. Sarah Hart described the man leaning against the Borden driveway gate post as wearing a derby hat. Dr. Handy described his 'wild eyed man' as wearing a straw hat. Also, both mention the guy they saw had a moustache. So consistent, but it seems that most men in the 1890's had some degree of facial hair.
Illustration of a straw derby hat

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[Singer7j]

Sorry camgarsky4
I looked but could find no source as to what/who Officer Hyde saw on that morning.
I also find it a little odd that the defense team did not ask Hyde about what he saw pre murders.
imo- the man seen by Mrs. Hart and the man seen by Dr. Handy are most likely the same man.

[camgarsky4]

Almost all the newspapers mention Officer Hyde and Dr. Handy seeing a man on Second Street around the same time frame. The published descriptions are all extremely vague, so not sure how this opinion was formed outside of being in the same general timeframe.

If their descriptions truly match, again, why in the world wasn't Hyde asked by the defense about the man when he testified at the trial or why didn't the defense call him to the stand at the Preliminary Hearing. If the defense didn't view Hyde's reported observations as pertinent to the case, then it gives me great pause to view Hyde as corroborating Handy. Doesn't lessen Handy's testimony, just means Hyde doesn't have anything to contribute to the Second St. movements pre-murder.

If anyone wants to read more newspaper coverage of this, August 10, 1892 seems to be the common date the dual sightings were mentioned together.

Here is the New York Times August 10 mention.

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[Singer7j]

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[camgarsky4]

Do you think Michael Graham was the guy Dr. Handy saw?

[Singer7j]

No

[Singer7j]

I think that the man seen by
Dr.Handy,Stephen Brow and Mrs. Manley are one and the same man.