Drugs & Murder

[Smudgeman]

This is something I have been thinking about lately, and I think it was mentioned before somewhere in the archives. What if Lizzie was a drug addict? Maybe her addiction started out innocently, and then grew out of control. The good doctor could have supplied her with what she needed. Drugs like heroin and cocaine are very addictive. Drugs can alter your personality, make you more aggressive or passive, despondent or paranoid, and could have played a role in these murders. Let's say she was on morphine or cocaine. This could account for her lack of emotion after the murders, and for her confusing testimony. She couldn't keep her lies straight, because her memory was clouded. I am also wondering if she was using drugs on a regular basis, maybe she had the idea of trying them out on Abby and Andrew. Although a drug user rarely wants to share their stash, heroin or morphine could have been what made the Borden's sick. I think the 1st time you do it; it makes you sick and you vomit. She could have been high as a kite when she swung the axe, then had a sort of plateau afterwards, making her seem calm, cool, and collected. Maybe Dr. Bowen knew he was supplying her with something, and that was why he panicked when another agent of death was mentioned? Do you think Lizzie was pumped up on drugs when she committed the murders?

[doug65oh]

"This could account for her lack of emotion after the murders, and for her confusing testimony. She couldn't keep her lies straight, because her memory was clouded."

The key phrase here it seems to me is after the murders. We know from page 327 of the trial transcript, taken at New Bedford the 8th of June 1893 - Melvin Adams here questioning Seabury Bowen:

Q. I understand you to say on Friday you directed that the bromo caffeine be given?
A. No, sir, Thursday.
Q. Not on Friday. You prescribed a second dose and took over from your office a bottle of it with directions how to be taken. I wish to know if, after that, you had occasion to prescribe for her on account of this mental distress and nervous excitement?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When was it?
A. Friday.
Q. The next day?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the prescription or medicine the same as the other?
A. It was different.
Q. What was it?
A. Sulphate of morphine.
Q. Well, what is commonly called morphine?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You directed morphine to be taken?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what doses?
A. One-eighth of a grain.
Q. When?
A. Friday night, at bed-time.
Q. The next day you changed that?
A. I did not change the medicine, but doubled the dose.
Q. That was on Saturday?
A. On Saturday.
Q. Did you continue the dose on Sunday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you continue it Monday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And on Tuesday?
A. Yes, sir.
-------------
The morphine sulfate was not prescribed or administered until the day after the murders. You're quite right that the dosage, continuing, could well have accounted for Lizzie's withdrawn countenance as well as her fuzziness at inquest.

But again the key is after the murders at least as far as the known record goes. Not to discount or undermine what you're saying at all - in fact I myself believe that the same thing may have happened...but after the murders.

[Smudgeman]

Well, we know about the drugs after the murders, I am contending she was already addicted to them before the dirty deed was done. It is possible she could have gotten her hands on them, I think cocaine was even legal back then. I know we have no evidence to this fact, but Lizzie had a way of getting her way, and I think if she wanted or needed the drugs, she would have found a way to get them.

[doug65oh]

Yup, you're right, it's certainly possible. Everything (so far as I know) was legal up until...there was an act passed in 1914 - the name escapes me at the moment - that was effectively the first "drug control act" of the twentieth century.

Oh, it was the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act of 1914.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/his ... sonact.htm

And here's a link discussing drug use and addiction in the 1890s:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/1890.htm

[Golaszewski]

Yup, you're right, it's certainly possible. Everything (so far as I know) was legal up until...there was an act passed in 1914 - the name escapes me at the moment - that was effectively the first "drug control act" of the twentieth century.

Oh, it was the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act of 1914.
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/his ... sonact.htm

And here's a link discussing drug use and addiction in the 1890s:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/history/1890.htm

In this era drugs were unregulated. Cocaine and opium were commonly used. And, Lizzie could have easily afforded these.

However, the reality is that in this era these drugs were rarely associated with violence. Contrary to modern myth, neither opiates or cocaine tend to cause violence. Most violence associated with these drugs is illegal traffickers fighting for turf, etc.

[Kat]

I have thought *drugs* for a long time, but not many subscribe to the theory. Harry found out it was common for Chinese Laundrys to be opium dens. There was a Chinese Laundry on Second Street, and Lizzie taught Chinese men in Sunday school. Maybe they turned her on? That could be as far back as 1885!
(People wondered what changed her so in her confidence where she finally made some friends!)

Anyway, it would account for her sullenness at home and her not eating with the folks and her keeping her own hours instead of doing family things- like coming in Wednesday night and going right upstairs- she wouldn't want Andrew to see her dilated eyes. (Or whatever side-effect there was).
Also she seemed to stay in her room a lot and slept late. I am convincing myself more and more the more I write!

I was posting the same time as the post before me.
I just read it so am editing here.
Morphine would not cause violence but cocaine sure does!

[Kat]

Oh and it's a reason to keep her bedroom door locked!
I wonder how much drugs women took back then to diet?

[Golaszewski]

Anyway, it would account for her sullenness at home and her not eating with the folks and her keeping her own hours instead of doing family things- like coming in Wednesday night and going right upstairs- she wouldn't want Andrew to see her dilated eyes. (Or whatever side-effect there was).

Opiates cause pinpoint pupils.

[Golaszewski]

Oh and it's a reason to keep her bedroom door locked!
I wonder how much drugs women took back then to diet?

Probably very little. The obsession with being thin is more a 20th century thing. And from what pictures I have seen of Lizzie, she hardly seemed interested in looking like Twiggy.

[Smudgeman]

Cocaine in particular DOES cause the eyes to dialate, and also contributes to some strange behavior such as locking doors, avoiding family and friends, that type of thing. And if Lizzie was thinking about killing, the cocaine would probably boost her confidence and give her energy she might not otherwise have.

[Allen]

I have thought *drugs* for a long time, but not many subscribe to the theory. Harry found out it was common for Chinese Laundrys to be opium dens. There was a Chinese Laundry on Second Street, and Lizzie taught Chinese men in Sunday school. Maybe they turned her on? That could be as far back as 1885!
(People wondered what changed her so in her confidence where she finally made some friends!)

I am pretty sure they were chinese children, not men. I remember the report of her becoming "disproportionately excited" when she couldn't get them to pay attention to her.

[Allen]

A cocaine habit can be hard to keep up. Cocaine can also cause nose bleeds; there is no record of Lizzie suffering from nose bleeds. It also causes weight loss. She also would've went through withdrawal while in jail. There is nothing to indicate she went through any kind of withdrawal.

[Kat]

It was Chinese men. The men who probably worked locally. Betcha!

Cocaine does not need to be inhaled. There are other ways to take it- no nose bleeds.
Dr. Bowen giving her morphine probably got her off coke.
Why else would he give it to her from Friday to Friday?

She might be able to mail order drugs too. She wanted to know if any mail came for her Thursday...
She could be energised to kill and extra paranoid, like Scott says.
Maybe if Lizzie had not been hooked she may have had more perspective on the home situation.
She's pretty lazy too- maybe she took different things?

[Allen]

If I can ask, where could I find the reference for the Chinese men she taught at the Sunday school?

[sguthmann]

While I can appreciate the drugs and Lizzie theory, wouldn't someone (Emma?) have noticed that she was on drugs, especially if she had a habit? I'm also thinking of town gossip...wouldn't it be too delicious for the townsfolk to ignore if Lizzie Borden was an addict? Wouldn't one expect there to be some sort of statement or reference made by someone in connection with this whole incident if dear Liz was known or rumored to be a junkie? I don't know of any...course that doesn't mean they don't exist. Help?

[Allen]

While I can appreciate the drugs and Lizzie theory, wouldn't someone (Emma?) have noticed that she was on drugs, especially if she had a habit? I'm also thinking of town gossip...wouldn't it be too delicious for the townsfolk to ignore if Lizzie Borden was an addict? Wouldn't one expect there to be some sort of statement or reference made by someone in connection with this whole incident if dear Liz was known or rumored to be a junkie? I don't know of any...course that doesn't mean they don't exist. Help?

I agree with you on this. If there had been any inkling that Lizzie was a drug addict, it probably would've been brought up. Look at the theories that were brought up then. She was molested by Andrew, she was in love with uncle John, etc etc. Why no rumor of drugs if she was in fact addicted? The one true theory was never a theory?

[theebmonique]

Chinese reference:

Rebello, pg. 12: ..."Also connected with the church is a Chinese Sunday school and Miss Lizzie took one of the men to instruct. She had good success and her pupil has since left Fall River."


Tracy...

[Golaszewski]

Cocaine does not need to be inhaled. There are other ways to take it- no nose bleeds.
Dr. Bowen giving her morphine probably got her off coke.
Why else would he give it to her from Friday to Friday?

Cocaine is quite active taken orally. Thomas Edison was a fan of cocaine laced wines, which were commonly sold at the time.

http://www.narconon.org/druginfo/cocaine_history.html

"The first recognized authority and advocate for this drug was world famous psychologist, Sigmund Freud. Early in his career, Freud broadly promoted cocaine as a safe and useful tonic that could cure depression and sexual impotence...

"From the 1850's to the early 1900's, cocaine and opium laced elixirs, tonics and wines were broadly used by people of all social classes. This is a fact that is for the most part hidden in American history. The truth is that at this time there was a large drug culture affecting a broad sector of American society. Other famous people that promoted the "miraculous" effects of cocaine elixirs were Thomas Edison and actress Sarah Bernhart. Because there were no restrictions placed on acquiring these drugs in the early 1900's, narcotics were an acceptable way of life for a large number of people, many of whom were people of stature. Cocaine was a main stay in the silent film industry. The pro-drug messages coming out of Hollywood at this time were receiving international attention which influenced the attitudes of millions of people about cocaine.

"As a rule, famous people are role models that can and do influence the masses. Star power has proven time and again to be the most potent form of advertising. Think about it: The world's most famous psychologist; the man that invented the light bulb; a stable of Hollywood silent film stars; and the inventor of the most popular soft drink in history - all on the pro-cocaine band wagon. All promoting the drug's positive effects. Some did it through personal testimonials that ran in printed pages across the nation. Others (in particular the silent film stars) promoted cocaine's acceptability through the examples they set by their well publicized life styles."

And, what is the significance of Friday to Friday reference?

[Wordweaver]

Cocaine does not need to be inhaled. There are other ways to take it- no nose bleeds.
Dr. Bowen giving her morphine probably got her off coke.
Why else would he give it to her from Friday to Friday?

She might be able to mail order drugs too. She wanted to know if any mail came for her Thursday...
She could be energised to kill and extra paranoid, like Scott says.
Maybe if Lizzie had not been hooked she may have had more perspective on the home situation.
She's pretty lazy too- maybe she took different things?

The more I think about this, the more plausible it sounds.

Starting to take cocaine would explain why Lizzie suddenly became vivacious and energetic and talkative with others. Cocaine can give you confidence and energy.

But she wouldn't have needed to get the idea of drug use from the Chinese Sunday School students. One of her good friends could have said, "Lizzie, you could use a tonic." And instead of some nice vitamins, she could have gone to Eli Bence and bought Mariani wine or something like it. This readily available, over-the-counter elixir was so popular that Pope Leo XIII endorsed it -- see this fascinating article, including an ad showing a hopped-up pontiff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine

Long-term usage of cocaine can create paranoia and cocaine psychosis: the feeling that bugs are crawling on your skin, hallucinations, delusions of persecution, restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, rage, hostility, violent outbursts, fever, and excited delirium.

If Lizzie did take any of the cocaine preparations, I would not be surprised if she didn't also take laudanum to help her relax. Or vice versa. Very often people who take uppers also take downers -- it's a vicious cycle. Users need the uppers to wake them from the torpor of the downers, and the downers to soothe the anxiety from the uppers.

And all this would have been perfectly legal and acceptable.

Now, Lizzie's testimony does seem confused, even drug-addled, and it's all very plausible. But I am wondering if there's hard evidence in the form of her financial records. I've read in various books that she had saved up money from her allowance, so someone must have those financial records. Lizzie's checkbook, her accounts of dresses bought and gifts given, all would be very revealing.

Does anyone know where they are? Will they be in the peerless Rebello? I check my mailbox every day. I admit it: books are my addiction.

Lynn

[Golaszewski]

While I can appreciate the drugs and Lizzie theory, wouldn't someone (Emma?) have noticed that she was on drugs, especially if she had a habit? I'm also thinking of town gossip...wouldn't it be too delicious for the townsfolk to ignore if Lizzie Borden was an addict? Wouldn't one expect there to be some sort of statement or reference made by someone in connection with this whole incident if dear Liz was known or rumored to be a junkie? I don't know of any...course that doesn't mean they don't exist. Help?

I'll gather you have never been addicted to opiates? I've been there, done that. So long as the dose is reasonable, and the person keeps taking a maintenance dose, they can appear and function normally. And Lizzie may have been just a recreational user. The townsfolk would have never known. You are also looking at this from a modern day perspective. At the time, drinking alcohol was considered worse than using opium or cocaine. Cocaine was in fact used as a cure for alcoholism. Better the person use a less harmful drug.

[Golaszewski]

I agree with you on this. If there had been any inkling that Lizzie was a drug addict, it probably would've been brought up. Look at the theories that were brought up then. She was molested by Andrew, she was in love with uncle John, etc etc. Why no rumor of drugs if she was in fact addicted? The one true theory was never a theory?

Attitudes towards drugs were much different back then. Cocaine and opium use didn't tend to be associated with violence. And, Lizzie may have kept her drug use very private.

[Audrey]

2 words...


MON DIEU!

[Susan]

This is definitely an interesting topic, it all does sound very plausible that Lizzie may have taken drugs. I was thinking of one other thing that was available at the time; Coca-Cola, which apparently had cocaine in it. By 1891 the manufacturers had cut the amount that went into the syrup to a "mere trace", but, how much that trace was.....?

Heres a link on the cocaine in Coca-Cola:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

[Allen]

Well I cannot say that I believe Lizzie was a drug addict, it is true that alot of products were sold back then that contained cocaine.



"Cocaine toothache drops were popular with children and with their parents. Not only would the medicine numb the pain, but it could also put the user in a "better" mood."

"Cocaine-containing throat lozenges, "indispensable for singers, teachers, and orators." In addition to quieting a sore throat, these lozenges undoubtedly provided the "pick-me-up" to keep these professionals performing at their peak. This box of lozenges is from a Belgium pharmacy (c. 1900). Local pharmacies often bought their drugs in bulk and packaged them for consumers under their own labels."


"Heroin was commercially developed by Bayer Pharmaceutical and was marketed by Bayer and other companies (c. 1900) for several medicinal uses including cough suppression."

This site has some information about such products, and pictures of the packaging the products came in.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/aru/preprohibition.htm

[Kat]

What makes the most sense of all this talk of a Lizzie-on-drugs is that we have always bumped up against the age-old problem:
That our Lizzie doesn't seem like a killer.

If she was on drugs, she wasn't our Lizzie- you see?
That is like 2 different people- which can be the situation when a person gets off drugs.
We may see the real Lizzie, after the arrest and while in jail and beyond. She would have to kick and get real.
That is the Lizzie we know most about because that is the one who came under close scrutinity after an arrest.
Before that, she was just some rich man's snotty daughter.
Nobody was keeping records of her until she achieved fame.

Also, it's my understanding that back then, if you had a skeleton in your closet, then you'd better not talk about your neighbor or friend, because your skeleton was bound to come out.
Victorian days were known for their secrets and the people's vices done in secret.

[Kat]

Casebook, pg. 11:
"She attended church regularly, taught a Sunday school class of Chinese children, the sons and
daughters of Fall River laundrymen, and was secretary-treasurer of the Christian Endeavor."

I have recently read the Chicago Tribune, the Boston Globe the NYTimes and the LATimes among others- I couldn't tell you exactly where I read of the Chinese men, but it was twice in the past week.

Thanks for the Rebello reference, Tracy.

[all edits here]: The Boston Globe(Aug. 7, 1892) is the source for the Chinaman in Rebello. I found another reference to the Chinamen, but it is in the Globe's Trickey/McHenry scandal opus, of October 10th. I do think it was somewhere else because I don't think I would post from that as a source (even tho it's in the Globe two different times)- but it's possible.
Here is part of the statement by Mary J. Wilson who may not exist:

"'I have called at Mr. Borden’s home and been refused entrance by the front door by Lizzie herself, and I have seen her take Chinamen in with her, presumably one of the scholars from the Chinese Sunday school, whom she was instructing in spiritual things.”

Trickey wrote a lot of articles for The Globe other than the big, suspect one, so it's hard to judge what is reliable and what was not. He did write very well.

I put the edit info here as I didn't want to interrupt the flow of the drug topic.

[Golaszewski]

This is definitely an interesting topic, it all does sound very plausible that Lizzie may have taken drugs. I was thinking of one other thing that was available at the time; Coca-Cola, which apparently had cocaine in it. By 1891 the manufacturers had cut the amount that went into the syrup to a "mere trace", but, how much that trace was.....?

Heres a link on the cocaine in Coca-Cola:

http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/cocaine.asp

Read that link thoroughly. Coca-cola never had that much cocaine even in the earliest days. However, in Lizzie's time cocaine was easily available.

[Golaszewski]

What makes the most sense of all this talk of a Lizzie-on-drugs is that we have always bumped up against the age-old problem:
That our Lizzie doesn't seem like a killer.

If she was on drugs, she wasn't our Lizzie- you see?
That is like 2 different people- which can be the situation when a person gets off drugs.
We may see the real Lizzie, after the arrest and while in jail and beyond. She would have to kick and get real.
That is the Lizzie we know most about because that is the one who came under close scrutinity after an arrest.
Before that, she was just some rich man's snotty daughter.
Nobody was keeping records of her until she achieved fame.

She also may have just used drugs occasionally, and thus never had to kick. While high doses of opiates are unlikely to put someone in a violent rage (most likely they will just make the person stare at their navel), a whopping dose of cocaine could do this to a normally nonviolent person.

Also, it's my understanding that back then, if you had a skeleton in your closet, then you'd better not talk about your neighbor or friend, because your skeleton was bound to come out.
Victorian days were known for their secrets and the people's vices done in secret.

Exactly. Why would family members broadcast it if Lizzie were a dope addict?

[Kat]

Oh and it's a reason to keep her bedroom door locked!
I wonder how much drugs women took back then to diet?

Probably very little. The obsession with being thin is more a 20th century thing. And from what pictures I have seen of Lizzie, she hardly seemed interested in looking like Twiggy.

Women are always dieting, as far as I know across-the-board.

[Golaszewski]

Women are always dieting, as far as I know across-the-board.

Anyone know what Lizzie's height and weight was? There doesn't seem to be much evidence before the murders that Lizzie was trying to "catch a man". Why should she want to deprive herself of the enjoyment of food unless she saw this would be to her benefit?

[Kat]

Her arrest record has her description. I don't think it has her weight.
Those ladies might do anything to get into those corsets.
Remember Gone With The Wind?
Maybe Susan or Allen, our web researchers will come up with diet info on women back then. I admit I'm not sure about that but I do think ladies dieted constantly.

[Kat]

Arrest record

[theebmonique]

I was re-watching one of the Lizzie documentaries last night and the figures 5'4" and 132 lbs came up....but I can't remember to which point in her adult life it was referring.


Tracy...

[Audrey]

I believe that is correct...

I remember the 134 lbs.

[Golaszewski]

I was re-watching one of the Lizzie documentaries last night and the figures 5'4" and 132 lbs came up....but I can't remember to which point in her adult life it was referring.

According to a source I found, medically normal weight for a woman that height is 130 lbs. By modern standards "attractively thin" would be lower than that, as attractively thin is actually less than ideal medically. Thus Lizzie was just normal weight, and no Twiggy.

[Susan]

Maybe Susan or Allen, our web researchers will come up with diet info on women back then. I admit I'm not sure about that but I do think ladies dieted constantly.

Maybe Lizzie at 134 or 132 was the dieted version of Lizzie? I keep thinking about how much weight she put on while in prison, nothing much to do but eat or read. And it was fashionable in the 1890s to be plump, like Lillian Russell. I did find some stuff on dieting in the 1800s:


1890s ideal, Lillian Russell

Then, plumper bodies were fashionable, even a symbol of success. Businessmen joined the Fat Men's Club of Connecticut. "Thin girls" wrote tearful letters to the Ladies' Home Journal for weight gain advice. Women padded clothing to look like well- rounded actress Lillian Russell.

As the century bore on, interest in weight loss grew. A succession of figures proffered their surefire solutions with confidence and authority.

In addition, distaste for obesity had slowly, and inexplicably, been growing, and a list of derogatory words had been invented to describe it: "porky" in the 1860s, "jumbo" in the 1880s, "butterball" in the 1890s. By 1903, plumpness was so out of favor that the Fat Men's Club of Connecticut shut its doors forever. By World War I, being fat was deemed more than unattractive; it was unpatriotic.

From this site:
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2004/ ... merica.php

The first person to publicly combine ideas of religious fervor, food choices, and health appears to be an American minister by the name of Sylvester Graham. In the early 1830s, Graham began to preach that all manner of immorality was related to the sin of gluttony, and that the answer to good health, both morally and spiritually, was to follow a bland, vegetarian diet. In Graham's view, gluttony led to indigestion, which then led to a state of what he called 'overstimulation'. This, he said, eventually led to illness.

Graham preached temperance, and a life without coffee, tea, or other stimulants. He stressed a diet high in coarse-ground whole-wheat flour which he baked into flat bread, referred to as Graham Crackers. Graham objected to the bread produced by city bakers because they used refined flour.

In 1879, the artificial sweetener Saccharin was invented. It became the basis for the Monsanto company.

In the 1890s, chemist Wilbur Atwater began to study how foods were made up of nutritional components, specifically proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. He developed the idea of measuring the heat value of each of the groups by burning the nutritional components and measuring the amount of heat they gave off. Each amount of heat that raised the temperature of one gram of water by one degree centigrade he called a calorie. But no one was sure what to do with the idea.

By the early 1890s, doctors who had previously thought obesity was incurable began to think of it as a disease caused by lack of thyroid hormone. Animal-based thyroid compounds started to be prescribed for weight loss in 1894. And, since something could be given to treat obesity, people thought other things might also work. In 1896 the first advertisements for products said to promote weight loss appeared. Common ingredients in these products were laxatives, purgatives, arsenic, strychnine, washing soda, and Epsom salts.

The First Diet Book

Isn't it amazing that the world's first diet book suggested a low carbohydrate plan? Actually more of a booklet or pamphlet than a true book, it was called Letter On Corpulence Addressed to the Public. Banting published the first edition in 1862. (Take note: 1862, not 1962!) The booklet later went into four editions, and achieved worldwide circulation after being translated into French and German. Some 68,000 copies of the booklet were sold over a five to six year period, and this at a time when at least half of the population could not read, and when diet advice was generally unknown.

From this site:
http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p119.htm

As early as the 1890s, a Boston druggist sold a corset-like device he called an "obesity belt," which had electrically charged disks that were said to disintegrate fat and dispel intestinal gas.

[theebmonique]

Great article Susan !! Thank you.


Tracy...

[Angel]

Getting back to the drug thing---if Lizzie was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic who was able to function pretty normally, maybe the cocaine laced things available at that time could have been enough to make her labile or unstable. And if she was really into the stuff or a combination of cocaine and laudanum at that particular time in her life, it could have been enough to put her over the edge and lose her control on her negative emotions.

[Pippi]

"getting back to the drug thing---if Lizzie was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic who was able to function pretty normally, maybe the cocaine laced things available at that time could have been enough to make her labile or unstable."

Since cocaine was used to treat such disorders one might wonder if one Dr. Bowen was treating Lizzie with it for such a disorder and keeping it in the closet for family reasons. Also on the dieting/corset front women often took tonics to endure their corsets which were painful (or to endure their lives), this "horrible" drug use that is being speculated was actually quite common and accepted under the guise of keeping slim/healthy whatever occasion arises. (mocked by others) The sale of drugs and alcohol was a part of daily pharmaceutical practice and could be done discretely.

from http://www.victoriana.com/library/doors/hpcorset.html
"Another curious "closed door" opened by the article is the discussion of liver disease "caused by tight-lacing" and the statement that if women did not lace so tightly they would "also have fewer complaints of red noses... (both of which complaints dance attendance on tight lacing)." The mind numbing constrictiveness of women's lives in the mid-nineteenth century drove many women to alcohol -- a situation almost never acknowledged or discussed. It was publicly considered unthinkable that a woman would drink to excess. Symptoms of alcohol use, therefore, are here attributed to tightly laced corsets!"

[Golaszewski]

Since cocaine was used to treat such disorders one might wonder if one Dr. Bowen was treating Lizzie with it for such a disorder and keeping it in the closet for family reasons.

At the time, there were no psychiatric drugs in the modern sense. Not only weren't there any major antipsychotics like Zyprexa, but also nothing like Valium or Prozac for lesser mental illnesses. At the time opium and cocaine were popular for psychiatric conditions. Freud thought well of cocaine.

[Kat]

I do thank you ladies for finding the dieting information!
I also think that females could be prone to bullimia and anerexia (sp.) no matter what the society at the time's social mores were on women's figures.
Also, somone like Lizzie, might want to be slimmer than her hated step-mother. Girls do things in reaction to other things- if Abby was fat then Lizzie might be slimming off and on so she would not become like the person she disliked.
Dieting itself, if done incorrectly, could also throw her hormones and metabolism off to the extent where she was prone to hysterical conditions at times.
Hypoglycemia might be the cause of her *fainting* or moods where she seems to draw into herself like at Marion with the girls.

I don't think Lizzie was a functioning schizophrenic- but I do think she had features of paranoia. I think she was a Narcissistic Personality, or Borderline Personality.

[Wordweaver]

I don't think Lizzie was a functioning schizophrenic- but I do think she had features of paranoia. I think she was a Narcissistic Personality, or Borderline Personality.

Either one sounds reasonable to me. I've always figured she was borderline, which is not to say that all people with borderline personality disorder are axe murderers.

Lynn

[Kat]

As an aside: I edited my post about Chinamen with source a bit further back in this topic.
I need more source!

Mr. G.: I remember looking at Lizzie's clothes (or should I say Lizbeth's clothes) at the B&B and she and Elizabeth Montgomery were smaller than me, which is 5'3, size petite 10. Those clothes were like 6's! I looked at the back to see if there were pinned, like on mannikins at the department store, but they weren't.

It was unbelievable how small her clothing was! I know *People were smaller then*, so trying to put a smaller-person into the luscious figure frame of reference is very hard! They must have been like little dolls!
I don't have a point other than to bring this up as an observation.

Edit for spelling: (My spelling is bad today!)

[Angel]

Kat, you're probably right in your diagnosis of Lizzie.

[Allen]

"getting back to the drug thing---if Lizzie was a borderline paranoid schizophrenic who was able to function pretty normally, maybe the cocaine laced things available at that time could have been enough to make her labile or unstable."

Since cocaine was used to treat such disorders one might wonder if one Dr. Bowen was treating Lizzie with it for such a disorder and keeping it in the closet for family reasons. Also on the dieting/corset front women often took tonics to endure their corsets which were painful (or to endure their lives), this "horrible" drug use that is being speculated was actually quite common and accepted under the guise of keeping slim/healthy whatever occasion arises. (mocked by others) The sale of drugs and alcohol was a part of daily pharmaceutical practice and could be done discretely.

from http://www.victoriana.com/library/doors/hpcorset.html
"Another curious "closed door" opened by the article is the discussion of liver disease "caused by tight-lacing" and the statement that if women did not lace so tightly they would "also have fewer complaints of red noses... (both of which complaints dance attendance on tight lacing)." The mind numbing constrictiveness of women's lives in the mid-nineteenth century drove many women to alcohol -- a situation almost never acknowledged or discussed. It was publicly considered unthinkable that a woman would drink to excess. Symptoms of alcohol use, therefore, are here attributed to tightly laced corsets!"

Cocaine and other drugs were readily available in many items sold at that time, as you can see if you clicked on the link I posted awhile back. It was not only available in products used by adults, but it was used in products made for children at that time as well. Morphine, cocaine, and even heroin were used in products which could be used by children. Benzedrine (which is an amphetamine) inhalers were used on airplanes clear up until the 1950's. Lizzie could have taken any one of these items that were available during her lifetime for innocent use, even as a child.

"Use of cocaine in a binge, during which the drug is taken repeatedly and at increasingly high doses, leads to a state of increasing irritability, restlessness, and paranoia. This may result in a full-blown paranoid psychosis, in which the individual loses touch with reality and experiences auditory hallucinations."

http://www.drug-rehabilitation.com/cocaine.htm

[Pippi]

Allen, yes I'm aware of cocaine being readily available which was part of my point. However, in addition, if one was under the care of a physician for hysteria the physician may be the one administering the dosages perhaps by injection.

The links and quotes you have used support that possibility, and if Lizzie was not properly "medicated" or in some sort of withdrawl....blah blah ax ax, the family doesn't want to air dirty laundry, Bowen doesn't want to face the possibility of question to his practice and

In that day, I think I too would rather be found guilty and sane than not guilty and of questionable sanity...which if her sanity was a question could also implicate murder. Either way that doesn't seem to be a good way out...even with money mental hospitals were not fun places and her "place" in the community *laugh* she would have rather faced death I'm sure...so it does leave room for people to lie if such disorders/addiction etc. were true.

[Allen]

Bowen doesn't want to face the possibility of question to his practice and

If it was commonly used in over the counter items and by doctors, why would there be any question to his practice? Or do you mean he just didn't want to admit he gave Lizzie the cocaine?

[Pippi]

That he (Bowen) may not have wanted to admit to have giving her the cocaine and be questioned about the dosage due to it's possible interpretation asw having contributed to the crime.

[Smudgeman]

And Dr. Bowen DID give lizzie the morphine on a regular basis after the murders, so how do we know if Lizzie requested other drugs before and was given what she wanted. And Lizzie could have purchased her own supply over the counter in addition to what Dr. Bowen was willing to give her. If he knew she was a regular user, it might cause him some concern under the circumstances.

[Kat]

It was questioned about Lizzie's money and could she afford an addiction?
I was just thinking about that *robbery* in the house the previous year...
Don't addicts start their thievery at home? Mom's purse, dad's change...