Murders, most foul

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:23 am

This web page has a listing of "sensational" murders of the 19th century primarily in the U.K. and the U.S.A.

http://www.uq.edu.au/~entjohns/Murder.htm

Not a detailed listing but at least in puts what it has in chronological order.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 7:29 pm

Thanks for the great link Harry, it provided me with some new cases I'd like to follow up on and learn more about. One of the cases I recognized was the murder of Mary Rogers,the case that Edgar Allen Poe based his story "The Mystery of Marie Roget" on. But this link brought it back to my attention and renewed my interest. Some of these cases are new to me, and I look forward to finding out more.

http://ngeorgia.com/feature/littlesecrets.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Phagan

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:02 pm

I love the description of Burke & Hare there. They weren't body thieves or grave robbers, but... Resurrectionists.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:34 am

thanks for the listing and website. It'll be neat to see what else was going on in the 1892 year

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Wed May 04, 2005 6:41 pm

My web skills are limited, my organization poor, but my enthusiam is boudless. I am embarking on a new section of my websitehttp://home.comcast.net/~nokatay/Daniel_Robertson.html

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:39 am

Thanks for the link to your site!
Very interesting!
Do you know our member Christopher Richard from Fairhaven?
Why are you interested in the Robertson case?

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:09 am

I have met Chris a few times, though I doubt if he would remember me. I was fascinated by his office and wanted a beautiful old map of Fairhaven for myself. He told me I could make copies at the library. I forgot all about that until just now. LOL. His walking tour of the 20 Acre purchase in Fairhaven Village was very informative. At the time I lived just north of the the area in a 150 year old house fomerly used as a boarding house. I read yesterday that there is a plan to build a 32 condominium complex that will, most likely surround 2 sides of the former rooming house. It's not clear if the house will be spared.
I did a geneology lookup for a woman from New Jersey about Robinson and became fascinated with the story. The events of the murder where sensational enough, but the fact that he was the last man hanged in MA, and the only prisoner ever hanged at Ash St. jail made it more interesting. The alcohol abuse that led to his "sinking into the depths of depravity" was jumped on by the WTCU, local church leaders and especially the Quaker community, who petitioned the governor to spare his life. I have several more articles about the murder and trial to transcribe and post.
A few days ago I met a former CO from Ash St jail and asked him if he ever went into the area they used for the hanging. He wasn't aware of where it was (some parts were razed after an Easter Sunday riot and fire in 1993) nor did he know a prisoner was ever executed there. He said he once went into an area that he was told was the area where Lizzie Borden was kept (He brought the Lizzie subject up, honest, LOL). I believe he said it was up in the attic and there was an old bed there. He described it as "wierd."

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:20 am

We have/had a member here who posted that they had worked at the jail and that they had lain on the bed which had been Lizzie's, stored up in the *attic* or something. The jail has a website or at least Harry knows of a link to the jail and I thought there were hangings in the jail, not just one.

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:57 am

I looked up an article from the 1980's, " Liquor Led to Murder, City’s Only Execution." I couldn't locate the exact date in my notes, but I will. The lead sentence is as follows, "The only man ever legally executed in this city and the last man to die on the gallows in Massachusetts was Daniel M. Robertson, 45, who was hanged Dec., 14 1894, at the New Bedford House of Correction."

I posted it here

http://home.comcast.net/~nokatay/daniel ... cution.htm

I also saw the corrections officer I spoke with and asked him the location where Lizze was kept. If you look at the photo I have linked, the location is on the right side of the building, you will see Ash St., where there is a difference in color of the asphalt is the location of the main entrance. In the top most level is where Lizzie was.

http://www.jack-iddon.com/pages_ja/bpj_aeri.htm

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:13 am

Here you go.

West Island, a.k.a. Nokatay

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:00 pm

Thank you Chris. I hope you could clarify something for me. I know the black dot in the circle to the left of "E" in West Island is the old house at the top of the hill. Is the dot on the east side at the end of the path also a former house? I know the triangle at the southern end is the tower, but just north of that is another dot. Another house?

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Fri May 06, 2005 9:37 pm

I can't really help to ID the dots at the moment. I have this image at a much higher resolution on another computer.

I do not think either of the marks at the south end are the present tower, though. This is a US government map dated 1940, but the many houses shown on the shores of Sconticut Neck (not shown in this cropped image) lead me to believe it was actually drawn prior to the Hurricane of '38. It's pre-WWII in any event.

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Fri May 06, 2005 10:03 pm

I have an article that says 3 families once lived on the island some time before 1900, on two farms there. One of the dots is remarkably close to a concrete form on the backside of the island.
http://home.comcast.net/~nokatay/Mystery.html
Something I had written sort of joking around, but may be a little bit clearer now, thanks to your map. I also have a map from the Coast Guard Artillery Services dated 1943, but has a notation "West Island Army, 1934" for the tower location.
http://home.comcast.net/~nokatay/images/annex.jpg
The person who gave me the image said the triangles indicate the structure and what it is equipped with, a fire control telephone switchboard, anti aircraft spotting station, and searchlight. Also on the facility, of course were barracks, a mess hall and a power generating station, of course.

More reading for me I guess, and I'm sorry to have strayed so far off topic.

I did go oback and read more, you're right Chris, the tower was built after the start of WW2.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat May 07, 2005 4:12 am

http://www.jack-iddon.com/pages_ja/txt_intr.htm

This has pictures of the jail.

Rocky Point on that map, Christopher? That's where the police celebration was on Aug. 4th??

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat May 07, 2005 5:05 am

I looked up an article from the 1980's, " Liquor Led to Murder, City’s Only Execution." I couldn't locate the exact date in my notes, but I will. The lead sentence is as follows, "The only man ever legally executed in this city and the last man to die on the gallows in Massachusetts was Daniel M. Robertson, 45, who was hanged Dec., 14 1894, at the New Bedford House of Correction."

I found a man hanged in Boston:
Angus D. Gilbert, murder, 2-21-1896

from:
Chicago Daily Tribune, 1-1-1897:20
"Hangings In 1896."

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat May 07, 2005 6:49 am

Found this at: http://www.charltonorchard.com/history.htm

The word "legend", makes the item questionable.

"Local legend tells a story about the last legal hanging in Massachusetts, in the fall of 1937, being held on our farm. Two desperados, ages 19 and 20, killed a local farmer for his money. The 19 year old, stole the farmer’s gold watch and was identified in a local tavern, when he pulled out the watch to check the time. Eager for justice and watching the clock closing on public hangings, the Charlton town’s people voted to hang the two in October of 1937, at the old stockyard across from Morton Station. People from all over Massachusetts and Northern Connecticut came and watched the last public hanging."

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat May 07, 2005 4:57 pm

Thanks Har.
Do you have the link to that Ash Street Jail History?

I found this last night but my Photoshop wouldn't open until today

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Sat May 07, 2005 5:53 pm

Kat @ Sat May 07, 2005 5:12 am wrote: Rocky Point on that map, Christopher? That's where the police celebration was on Aug. 4th??

No, Kat.

I'm sure that every coastal town in New England, or anywhere else for that matter, has at least one "Rocky Point."

The Rocky Point of police clambake fame was in Rhode Island.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat May 07, 2005 5:54 pm

Kat @ Sat May 07, 2005 5:57 pm wrote:Thanks Har.
Do you have the link to that Ash Street Jail History?

Kat, I think you may be referring to an article that appeared in the May 19, 1996 South Coast Today. The article mentions a "Richardson" as being the last person hanged at the jail. It does not mention a year. The article also contains reference to the alleged Lizzie bed in the attic.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/05-96/05-19-96/1ajail2.htm

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun May 08, 2005 4:27 am

Thanks, Har! That's IT!
It implies there were other hangings there, I think. Maybe that's just my opinion?

Also, Nokatay says Robertson and this says Richardson

Hey Christopher! Because your map was truncated, I could not tell what it was or where it was, so thanks for the answer.

Nokatay · Post by **Nokatay** » Sun May 08, 2005 8:13 am

The Richardson hanging is new to me, but I will look into it more. I have to go downtown this week so I'll stop in at the library. The descriptions of the jail cells in the articles from 1892 and 1996 differ considerably, don't they? From "large and airy " to "sardine can capacity."

What is the "police clambake" everyone is referring to?

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Sun May 08, 2005 10:21 am

Kat @ Sun May 08, 2005 5:27 am wrote: Hey Christopher! Because your map was truncated, I could not tell what it was or where it was, so thanks for the answer.

Sorry, Kat.

Nokatay and I were having our own off-topic conversation and the rest of you got left out. West Island is part of Fairhaven. It is connected to the mainland by a causeway that crosses another small island in between. Back when the Indians were here, the island was called Nokatay. It was purchased from Massasoit's son "King Philip" by John Cooke, one of the original Pilgrims who was an early settler in Fairhaven.

Nokatay, on August 4, 1892, the Fall River Police were having their annual outing at Rocky Point. (The one we knew as an amusement park in Rhode Island.)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon May 09, 2005 4:16 am

Thanks for the explanation, Christopher. It did seem like something was missing- and I do appreciate the map!
I love maps!

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:42 pm

I didn't know the Ash Street jail was still standing, let alone in use. Thank you fellow Bordenites for the interesting posts. I remember the "Lizzie's bed in the attic" story. I wish they would put it in one of the Lizzie places for us to see - the FRHS maybe.

We've read so much about Lizzie's stay in Taunton. But I've seen very little about the 10 months she was jailed in New Bedford. I think they let her go out on the grounds to take walks. And it was said she had put on weight when she was there. That's about it.

Rocky Point was in Warwick, RI. If you type in "Rocky Point" on eBay there are sometimes things for sale. It was in operation a long time.

I was just reading something about that clambake of August 4, 1892 the other day. It said how many policemen were actually there (I was surprised that it wasn't more) and that they stopped having them after the Borden murders.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:47 pm

I think the 10 months was spent in Taunton. And Lizzie was moved to New Bedford for the trial, June 3rd. I haven't verified the date- it came from The Crowel Collection of news items.

However, Lizzie was brought to New Bedford in between, May 8th, to be arraigned, and then returned.
I believe she asked, through her attorney Jennings, to have the privledge of staying in Taunton for the duration of waiting for trial. Supposedly she felt more comfortable there.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:55 pm

In a cursory look through Appendix H of Rebello, I found two places where it is stated that Lizzie was in the Taunton jail.

Pg. 588 August 12, 1892 - Lizzie pleaded "not guilty at her arraignment before Judge Blaisdell at Central Police Station. Lizzie was taken to Taunton jail.

Pg. 589 September 1, 1892 - Miss Borden was found "probably guilty" and bound over to await the action of the Grand Jury in Taunton, Massachsetts. Lizzie was taken to the Taunton jail.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:55 am

Thanks.

That jail is gone, right?

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:43 pm

I think Kat it is still there.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:46 pm

Liz Crouthers @ Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:43 pm wrote:I think Kat it is still there.

I swear when I read that, at first I read it too fast and thought it said:

" I think Kat is still there".

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:57 pm

I'm sure that the jail is still there.

did ya get it?

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:24 pm

LOL...Liz's head is moving faster than her fingers...

Tracy...

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:08 am

you bet cha,

I've never been to since yesterday morning and I'm stuck on sweets, so hyperactivity here I come.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:32 am

From where do you know Taunton jail is still there?

I admit I get my jails confused, but I thought the Ash Street jail in New Bedford was still there but the Taunton one is not?

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:07 am

There was a pic of it in a book and Movies, and they are late dated. Better ask Mark

I'm on it

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:27 am

Here it is in Rebello's book, page 502:

Crowley, Charles, "Taunton An Early Site for County's Prisons," Taunton Advocate, May 15, 1980.

"The Taunton jail on Hodges Street where Lizzie was confined was constructed in 1873 and closed when the New Bedford (Massachusetts) House of Correction was built in 1898. The Taunton jail remained vacant for a number of years until the Veterans of Foreign Wars occupied the building. They purchased the building in 1947 and remained there until 1970. The Taunton jail, along with many other historical buildings in Taunton, was demolished under the Urban Renewal Program."

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:32 am

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:32 am

did ya get it?

Did you get it, Liz?

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:43 am

Mark won't email me to tell me.

Tracie · Post by **Tracie** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:17 am

Yup it is gone.

Tracie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:34 pm

Hi Tracie!
You are of Taunton Asylum, yes?

Liz:
Here it is in Rebello's book, page 502:

Crowley, Charles, "Taunton An Early Site for County's Prisons," Taunton Advocate, May 15, 1980.

"The Taunton jail on Hodges Street where Lizzie was confined was constructed in 1873 and closed when the New Bedford (Massachusetts) House of Correction was built in 1898. The Taunton jail remained vacant for a number of years until the Veterans of Foreign Wars occupied the building. They purchased the building in 1947 and remained there until 1970. The Taunton jail, along with many other historical buildings in Taunton, was demolished under the Urban Renewal Program."

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:14 pm

Thanks for the correction, Kat. After I got off of here, I thought I had posted wrong. That day I had OD'd on Lizzie stuff. I don't have an eighth of a grain of morphine to excuse me.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:30 pm

Well, we have since all decided we would like to go see the New Bedford jail when we go to Fall River next! Wanna go?