The Written Truth

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sat May 07, 2005 7:49 pm

is a handwriting analysis web site. I don't know if this site has been posted before but the writer takes a look at Lizzie's handwriting.

http://www.thewrittentruth.com/Sample.htm

My skeptical self will refrain from commenting. Well --- maybe one Pshaw!

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sat May 07, 2005 8:38 pm

Graphology can be interesting. I rarely write anymore because the person reading it (were they an analytical sort) might take me for a doctor, which is not a bad guess, just a wrong one.

One question did come to mind in looking at that though: What possible value is there in reading the "stoke" of a pen? (==>> A Stoke of the Pen - An Insight into Life)

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun May 08, 2005 1:24 pm

What is funny about Lizzie's handwriting is that it was reported she was proud of it and kept the books for one of her clubs.....

I have the killer font version of her handwriting and it is almost impossible to read!

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Sun May 08, 2005 3:26 pm

Really?

Haulover · Post by **Haulover** » Mon May 09, 2005 3:22 pm

Isn't it another Lincolnism that abby thought lizzie's handwriting was great -- and thus it was that she asked lizzie to address the wrappers? (what day? murder day.)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon May 09, 2005 8:31 pm

I don't know from where it comes that Lizzie admired her own handwriting.

This sample shown at the bottom is the Burial Instructions! That surprised me more than the analysis!

I think it's pretty interesting.
Stefani noticed something about Lizzie's handwriting a while ago and we tested it- and it was really weird.
If I can find the example, I will post it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:04 am

I could not find the example which Stefani and I made. She spotted it and we examined her impression. I've recreated it here, now.
This is in the center of Spiering's book. It's Lizzie's letter. We turned it sideways and it looks like hatchet slashes!

I've emphasized the slant with a black fine line pen.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue May 10, 2005 12:17 am

I think it was Lincoln who made that claim and I should have known better!

That is creepy Kat... And a darn good observation!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue May 10, 2005 1:29 am

Stef's very smart!

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:54 pm

Oh my gosh!

I have Spiering's book; I looked at Lizzie's letter and was shocked to find that when you turn it sideways, you don't even need to use a magnifying glass to plainly see the "hatchet slashes"!

Very COOL!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:11 pm

Spiering has a good selection of pictures!

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:34 pm

I agree, Kat.

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:50 am

Well, Well, Well you learn something new everyday.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:08 am

Was Lizzie right-handed or left-handed ?

Tracy...

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:56 am

I'm gonna stick my neck out and say she was right-handed, because I remember some discussion about whether the person who struck the blows was left-handed or right. Some people thought the direction of the blows indicated a southpaw, which would have ruled out Lizzie.
It's too hot to trudge two levels down to my library, but I'll try to post a reference later.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:22 am

I browsed Kent's book "Forty Whacks", page 133+, regarding whether Lizzie was left or right handed and found this:

"Of all the mysteries connected to the Borden murders, the most profound was revealed in the first few questions put to Dr. Dolan by Attorney Adams. Discussing the nature of the blows to the heads of Andrew and Abby, Adams put these questions to Dolan:

Q. You think the assailant swung the instrument from left to right, don't you?
A. Yes sir.
Q. And all these wounds can be fairly accounted for by blows from left to right?
A. Yes sir.
Q. That is to say, by a left-handed person?
A. Yes, by a left-handed person."

Kent then makes the declarative statement, "Lizzie was right-handed.", and later goes on to say:

"Why this specter of a left-handed killer was not seized upon by the defense, we can now never know. One can almost hear Robinson heaping scorn on the prosecution, acting out for the jury a right-handed person clumsily swinging a hatchet with the left hand; ridiculing the idea that such an act could possibly have taken place!
Instead, the left-handed killer remains one of the most baffling of all the Borden mysteries."

Unfortunately no source for Kent's opinion is cited.

I know we have had past discussions on the left-right handedness and the direction of the blows. I believe the medical testimony at the trial was of mixed opinion as to the left-right handeness of the killer.

Personally I think the assassin used two hands and that opinion is even stronger if the killer was a woman. Greater leverage and greater accuracy with two hands.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:11 pm

Thank you for the right/left hand references. So Harry, do you think both hands together during the axeing, or one then the other ?

Tracy...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:20 pm

Both hands at the same time. This does not mean that one or more blows could not have been delivered with just one hand.

Also, as the length of the handle increases so do the odds of the killer using two hands.

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:24 pm

Does anyone know if Emma was left-handed, if she did it and was a lefty,

I can see why the defense would not bring up that left handed-deal.

Lizzie would not want Emma getting arrested.

better

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:30 pm

Lizzie would not Emma getting arrested.

What ?? Is there something missing from your sentence Liz ?

Tracy...

diana · Post by **diana** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:19 pm

Maybe Liz is a girl who takes risks?

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:38 pm

Sorry I need to edit again,

I meant Lizzie not want Emma to get arrested.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:06 pm

Thanks...it makes much more sense now. (Just slow down with your typing Liz...you have some good thoughts to share. Take some time with the 'preview button' so you can share them with us in a way that us old folks can understand...LOL....except for Audrey...she's not old.)

Tracy...

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:15 pm

Well your not either

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:59 pm

Thnak you. I guess 'old' really is a state of mind.

Tracy..

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:48 pm

theebmonique @ Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:59 pm wrote:Thnak you.

You really should slow down when you type Tracy. And try using the preview button.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:54 pm

FairhavenGuy @ Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:48 pm wrote:
theebmonique @ Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:59 pm wrote:Thnak you.
You really should slow down when you type Tracy. And try using the preview button.

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:09 pm

LOL...Yes, I neglected to catch my error as Chris and Melissa have pointed out. When I mentioned to Liz to slow down, it was only because I was not sure what she meant, and I wanted clarification. I did not mean to get out my teacher's "red pen" and "correct" her post. I should have been more clear.

Tracy...

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:10 pm

I nearly forgot...Sorry, Liz !

Tracy...

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:35 pm

LOL

no problem Tracy.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:11 am

That Was Hilarious You Guys!

Edisto · Post by **Edisto** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:05 pm

Well, I've spent hours reviewing some of the most boring testimony of the Borden trial -- that of Dr. Draper and Dr. Cheever, who appeared as experts to interpret the autopsy findings. Nowhere in their testimony (or in the questions put to them by the prosecution and defense lawyers) could I find any reference to Lizzie's right-handedness or left-handedness. I feel absolutely sure nobody would ever have provided any info on Emma's. What did emerge from the testimony was that most of the blows to Abby's and Andrew's heads appeared to have come from right to left. However, there were some blows that seemingly were struck from left to right. One of the newspapers described the actions of the killer as having been like those of a "woodcutter." Since I couldn't find anything in the testimony, I looked at some pictures of Lizzie. Most of her photographs are head shots, so that's no help. The courtroom sketches, however, often showed her hands. Where she was holding something (usually a fan), she almost always had it in her right hand. That certainly doesn't prove anything, especially since Lizzie's appearance changes so drastically from sketch to sketch, but there probably wouldn't be any reason for the artist to switch hands on us. A lot of people who write lefthanded have handwriting that slants to the left; however, that's not inevitable. Most certainly, Lizzie's handwriting slants sharply (!) to the right.
(As an aside, my maternal grandparents had four grandchildren: myself, my two siblings, and my first cousin. I was the only one of the four who wasn't lefthanded. Even more oddly, neither the grandparents nor the parents of the four of us were lefthanded. I have always wished I could find info on lefthandedness going further back, but I haven't been able to access much. Of course, if I go a couple of generations further back, I'll probably run into folks who couldn't write with EITHER hand!)

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:41 pm

Edisto...THANK YOU very much for your time and efforts in researching all of that. Back when we were discussing the "come over the bed" idea...I think right versus left came up too.

Tracy...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:08 pm

Looking at Lizzie's handwriting was a brilliant idea!
And thanks for all the checking you did!

I'm noticing more and more, TV characters as left handed. I don't know why?
I was wondering if it's just because now society doesn't train the right hand over the left which they used to do or if more left-handed people are drawn to TV appearances...

When looking at the autopsy picture of the back of Abby's head shaved, I'd say those blows came from several different directions- the middle area in the back looks the the Mark Of Zorro to me!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:21 pm

I ran across this site a bit earlier. I thought it rather odd that this person seemed to be analyzing the very same bit of Lizzie's handwriting that was used on the site Harry provided. The same examples are shown except in reverse order. The over all opinion of both analysts is pretty much the same as well. The analyst on this site seems to be named Cheryl. The analyst on the site provided by Harry is named Terry Deck. Is it a coincidence that they seem so much alike?

http://www.handwritinglady.com/archives/lizzie.php

tasheka22 · Post by **tasheka22** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:09 pm

Well ....there is no doubt that lizzie was right handed...the slant of her writing shows that beyond a shadow of a doubt...so if the blows were delivered with the left hand....how could she have exerted enough force to the blows with her left hand....it would have been clumsy at best..and not very forceful probably. Even if she had used both hands..being right handed more than likely the arch would/or should have come from the right ....try it right handers..try swinging something with left hand or both with a left arch...clumsy isnt it?

Liz Crouthers · Post by **Liz Crouthers** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:31 pm

yes your right, I've had to use an axe to help cut down a tree before and I used both hands and(still interested in Lizzie at the time) tried to make the blows go from left to right.

No matter how I tried it went to the right. I even tried it just left-handed, still I was to clumsy with my left and it went to the right anyway.

tasheka22 · Post by **tasheka22** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:28 pm

yeah...and try slanting your handwriting in that direction with your left hand.....close to impossible..lol..so she HAD to be right handed.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:36 pm

Yes, I would have to agree that I think she was right- handed also. I also agree with kat about the mark of zorro thing on the back of Abby's head. Now whenever I look at that photo, it seems like that is the first thing I see.