Bridget Again

[Allen]

I keep coming back to the information provided in the profile of Bridget in Rebello. I'm thinking it's likely that Bridget never got married to John M. Sullivan. I think John M. Sullivan was her brother. Bridget Sullivan was born in Billerough, County Cork, Ireland. Her mother was listed as Margaret (Leary) Sullivan. John M. Sullivan was born in Ireland in 1868, came to the United states in 1888, and his mother was also listed as being Margaret ( Leary) Sullivan.

It stated that the attendants for the wedding were Bridget Sullivan and Peter J. Sullivan. I believe that our Bridget was the attendant, not the bride.

It's also stated that Bridget Sullivan moved to Butte, Montana in 1942 to live with relatives. Passenger lists for Ellis Island show many Sullivan's who lived in Butte, Montana. Many of them were Bridgets. It's possible that our Bridget Sullivan has been mixed up with others by the same name.

According to the profile Bridget would've been born around 1866. John was born two years later. He also came to the United States two years later. It was popular practice then, and still is now, for one member of the family to emigrate to America, obtain a job, and send money home in order to provide passage for other family members to follow. He did not become a citizen until 1896, though he arrived in 1888. I'm wondering why the gap?

Bridget was one of 14 children. That makes for a very large family that can be difficult to trace. I know this because my grandfather came from an extremely large family. He had 12 brothers and 2 sisters, and I dont even know half the people I'm related to today. I could pass cousins on the street and never know it. The actual tracing of my family tree wasn't that difficult because fortunately our name is not a common last name. But, in tracing a family history that large, I'd say there are bound to be mix ups along the way because Bridget was a very common first name also. It's quite possible that due to the fact that Bridget came from such a large family, quite possibly her parents did too. This could lead to more than one Bridget Sullivan being around the same age, and coming from Billerough Ireland. Not only because parent's in Ireland liked the name especially well, but because officers at the Immigration Office would change the name to something more American if they thought the name was too difficult to spell or pronounce.

I know this subject has been a topic on the forum before, and I apologize for bringing it up again, but I just think that of all the characters in the Borden mystery, our doctor Bowen and Bridget are two of the most mysterious. We know next to nothing about them.

[DWilly]

I'm one of those who doubts Bridget had anything to do directly with the murders but, I do wonder if she knew a heck of a lot more than she let on at the trial. Her whereabouts in that house and what she does between about 10:40 to 11:10am are very important to the killer. The killer had no way of knowing when Morse was going to walk through that door. What if Bridget hadn't laid down to take that now famous nap? Would the killer have just been content to cool their heels and wait? Or was the killer very confident that Bridget was going to go lay down at such a perfect time? Just like her being nice enough to be outside washing windows as Abby was being killed.

As for Dr. Bowen, yes, I think he knew more but he wasn't going to turn on a woman he had known since she was a kid.

[theebmonique]

If Morse had some involvement, the killer may have known EXACTLY WHERE Morse was, WHAT he was/would be doing, and WHEN he would be back to the borden house...yes ?


Tracy...

[snokkums]

Actually I think it would be fairly easy to trace a big family. I am one of ten kids and my dad is one of 12 and mom one of 12, and dad has never had a problem doing our geneology.

Fact is it was easy for him. He can trace one of our relatives, John Howland, to the Mayflower. So it would be fairly easy to locate everyone.

[Ad]

I agree with Tracy. Morse has always stood out from the crowd for me.

Firstly; he seems to know where he was, whom he was with and what he was doing, at any given time. (almost to the minute) "very" strange/suspicious, me thinks!!

Also, who travels without luggage? As far as I recall he didn't even have a toothbrush, did he??

It seems odd to me that he can remember the street car diver's cap number, but he can't remember his toothbrush.

And who goes past a "large" crowd of people milling about the house that you're staying at without asking "What's going on?" He chose to go to the back yard I believe.

Is it just me, or does his actions seem a little suspect?

[DWilly]

There are a few odd things about Morse. When I went to the Borden House the young woman that showed me around showed me this tiny little room next to Bridget's. She said that's usually where Morse stayed. She said that she thought that on this trip he stayed in the guest room only because Bridget was so nearby and it wouldn't have looked good having a single man and a single woman so near each other. The other thing that changed or at least I think it did was that Abby went into the guest room to tidy up after him. I thought that room was Lizzie's or Emma's job to do. So, why did Abby do it this time? Was Lizzie to lazy to do it or did Morse have such bad hygiene that she refused?

[Susan]

Perhaps it was more along the lines of Morse (though Lizzie's uncle) was considered one of their guests and as such, maybe Lizzie saw fit that Abby cleaned up after him. I wonder if Bridget cleaned up his room in the attic when he stayed there or if poor Abby had to trek up all those stairs and do it herself?

[Kat]

Well, that went off-topic really fast.
I think this is a record!
I'm not being critical- I'm just wondering what else there is to say about Bridget's antecedents without going to Ireland.
There have been a couple of articles in the old LBQ about Bridget's ancestry- has anyone read them?

[theebmonique]

Sorry...my fault. I should not have commented on Morse...should save that for another topic.



Tracy...

[Kat]

It can always come back again- it's just a question of what else is there to say? The LBQ had an article on Bridget Sullivan which experts believe because the man who wrote it has a preeminent reputation for Irish genealogy.
Unless everyone has read it, what's to discuss?

[Harry]

Allen's interesting theory sent me digging into my archives.

For those of you that still have copies, dust off these past editions of the Lizzie Borden Quarterly.

The Fall/Winter 1995 edition has an article by Lizzie buff George Quigley. The article questions the fate of our Bridget and whether it is indeed her buried beneath that stone. Part of his theory is, to quote:

"In 1897 hundreds of Bridget Sullivans were listed as residing in the area of Butte, Montana ... several being about 27 in 1893."

The article also explores the many different years of birth credited to her, anywhere from 1864 to 1875. It also said Mr. Quigley was writing a soon-to-be-published book on Lizzie and Bridget. Alas, it never appeared.

The lead article in the April 1996 LBQ is by Genealogist Riobard O'Dwyer in collaboration with Borden expert Maynard F. Bertolet.

The article extensively explores Bridget's birthplace and family. He lists her being born in March 1864, and one of 12 children. A listing of her siblings does not show a brother John M. According to the article she married a John E. Sullivan.

"Following this terrifying experience, she left Fall River and circa 1896 moved to Anaconda, Montana, nearby Butte, and became a part of the Allihies Mines community in residence, Bridget married a Smelterman named John E. Sullivan who died in 1939. Shortly after John's death, she moved in with her niece, Mrs. Mary (Bantry Tim) Sullivan at 112 East Wilman Street in Butte, Montana."

There are some articles in the archives about this same subject. This one beginning about thread #30 is particulary germaine:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Archi ... dunnit.htm

[Ad]

Sorry Kat, I didn't mean to de-rail the train of thought on Lizzie's genealogy.
I would like to continue with Uncle Morse though, so I'll start a new thread.

[Ad]

I agree with Tracy. Morse has always stood out from the crowd for me.

Firstly; he seems to know where he was, whom he was with and what he was doing, at any given time. (almost to the minute) "very" strange/suspicious, me thinks!!

Also, who travels without luggage? As far as I recall he didn't even have a toothbrush, did he??

It seems odd to me that he can remember the street car diver's cap number, but he can't remember his toothbrush.

And who goes past a "large" crowd of people milling about the house that you're staying at without asking "What's going on?" He chose to go to the back yard I believe.

Is it just me, or does his actions seem a little suspect?

Sorry Gang, I should have started a new thread. Forgive me please, I'm still trying to get the hang of this forum.
Any thought on our Mr Morse??

[Ad]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh...I give!! :)

[Harry]

To start a new thread go to the bottom and click new topic. That will start a brand new topic area.

[Kat]

Thanks for the info from the LBQ, Har.
I alluded to it but didn't know how many here had it.
I sort of believe these respected researchers on Bridget- but I know even Len Rebello wants to go to Ireland to "find Bridget" so there must be more to find!

Mr. Quigley's math was off, so I had a hard time comprehending his article.

[Allen]

Thanks for the info from the LBQ, Har.
I alluded to it but didn't know how many here had it.
I sort of believe these respected researchers on Bridget- but I know even Len Rebello wants to go to Ireland to "find Bridget" so there must be more to find!

Mr. Quigley's math was off, so I had a hard time comprehending his article.

I think even the most respected researchers can make mistakes. I remember reading a contemporary account that stated Bridget was one of fourteen children. I also read somewhere that by about 1880, before Bridget Sullivan was even in America, there were already something like 350 Sullivan's listed as heads of households in Fall River. If you couple that with all the Sullivan's living in Butte Montana, you may have an awful lot of "potential" Bridgets to throw you off track.

I'm thinking I read this information on the Keeley Library site. I was looking for that just a bit ago, and I did get a little sidetracked by finding some really interesting information on other subjects,so I haven't come across this tidbit again. I have to leave soon and won't be home until this evening. I'll look some more then.

[Allen]

Fall River's Irish Fled Famine for Land of Opportunity - article from the Herald News, February 26, 2003, p. 12, with an additional article "Robert Irving Was City's First Irish Immigrant." (749K)

http://www.sailsinc.org/durfee/fallriversirish.pdf

[snokkums]

I remember too, Allen reading that Bridget was one of 14 children I also remember reading that right after the murders and trials that she went back to Ireland, married and came back to America and settled in Butte Montana. I don't know if all of that is true, but I remember reading it.

[DWilly]

I'd like to know how long Bridget stayed in Ireland and how she supported herself while she was there. Where did she get the money to come back to the States? For a poor Irish lass she's sure getting around.

[Haulover]

radin gives only a short bibliography, and he cites many sources you can believe or disbeleive. but he claims to have communicated with a miss mollie o'meara of the butte public library about a friend of bridget's named minnie green, who could verify that this bridget was The Bridget. [pg 234 of dell paperback]. the story is that this minnie green tells miss o'meara that bridget had informed her that she [bridget] had been a witness in the borden case. supposedly, bridget was going to reveal the big secret on her death bed, but recovered instead. on the face of it, it's another one of those stories that cannot be verified. if radin had explained in a believable way how he found this person and learned this --but it is rather sketchy.

[Kat]

I recall someone telling me they called that library and heard there never was such a person working there.
That was a while ago. Someone should call and check!

[Allen]

I found this on a genealogy forum I look at every now and again,thought it made an interesting read.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/sullivan/ ... /1241.html

[Allen]

Ok I'm confused.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/p ... :3792.html

[Kat]

Thanks.
I think that stuff was also in O'Dwyer's article in the LBQ.

There was a response at that website- strange. And not another, since 2002...

http://genforum.genealogy.com/sullivan/ ... /5794.html

[nbcatlover]

When I first got interested in Lizzie, I went to the Bristol Community College library (where Jules Ryckebusch taught) to read all past editions of LBQ, which are in their archives.

I found the Bridget articles interesting, but like Kat, I found some of the numbers used seemed to contradict themselves, and it got confusing.

I believe he said Bridget did not return to Ireland after the murders, as is often reported, but did not give a clear accounting of 1894-95.

Because of Bridget's journey to Butte, I watched a documentary about the life around the Anaconda Mine. There didn't seem to be much demand for maids; however, this documentary made comment that most of the women in these mining communities were prostitutes.

After that, I wondered about the "secret" Bridget was about to reveal when she thought she was dying. I considered the possibility that her secret was not about the murders themselves, but that she was no longer considered employable as a live-in maid. For many of the "right" people, Lizzie's verdict of not guilty implied that Bridget must be the guilty one. It is possible that she became a lady of easy virtue for several years.

[Haulover]

***Because of Bridget's journey to Butte, I watched a documentary about the life around the Anaconda Mine. There didn't seem to be much demand for maids; however, this documentary made comment that most of the women in these mining communities were prostitutes.

After that, I wondered about the "secret" Bridget was about to reveal when she thought she was dying. I considered the possibility that her secret was not about the murders themselves, but that she was no longer considered employable as a live-in maid. For many of the "right" people, Lizzie's verdict of not guilty implied that Bridget must be the guilty one. It is possible that she became a lady of easy virtue for several years.***

____________________

i have no idea about this, of course. but this makes me think of the movie, "McCabe & Mrs Miller" (1970?), which i recently saw. a northwest town with big prostitution market. i'm trying to imagine bridget in that setting.

but it's something else i had never considered -- bridget's resume, when she goes for another job. what would the typical reaction be? i guess i'm wondering if bridget could have ever actually owned up to having been THAT maid at THAT borden house. but a westward move makes sense in this context, doesn't it? and it's interesting that we're not absolutely sure what became of her -- and so many bridget sullivans. that also makes sense. so, in effect, bridget had to "hide out" like lizzie, though by using an entirely different method?

this is a good bridget fictionalization idea anyway -- Bridget Sullivan's Plight

now, i also can't help but imagine how wonderful it would have been to interview bridget. about a week of questioning, i quess. what do you know?what do you know?

how many would actually enjoy having bridget working in your house as your maid?

[Allen]

Bridget as a prostitute?

[Audrey]

I might employ someone like Bridget....

A maid who does windows and doesn't tattle?

[Angel]

It would have been a whole different story, wouldn't it, if Bridget had said she didn't do windows.

[Audrey]

Yes it would have...

But seriously, My opinion is, that Bridget was not a prostitute......

Now.. Would I hire a woman to work in my home who I may suspect was involved in an 'unsolved' murder. No.

[Allen]

Hi, I am searching for information about my husband's great aunt, Brigid/Bridget Sullivan, who may have been maid for the Andrew Borden family of Fall River, MA. Andrew and his wife Abby were victims of an ax wielding murderer on Aug 4, 1892. As history books tell, their daughter, Lizzie, was tried and acquitted for the crime and no one was ever convicted.
In the book Who Were My Irish Ancestors
- Genealogy Of The Allihies Parish, Co.Cork, Ireland written by Riobard O'Dwyer N.T., it states that Brigid was born Mar 1864, one of twelve children born to Owen(Eugene) O'Sullivan and Margaret O'Leary. She emigrated to the United States at the age of 19 years (abt 1883-85) and worked in Fall River,MA for 2 1/2 years and may have had contact with a cousin, Patrick Harrington, who lived there. She moved circa 1896 to Anaconda, MT. where in 1905 she married a smelterman, John M. Sullivan and resided there until after his death in 1939. She then moved to Butte, MT and lived with her niece, Mary Sullivan, my husband's mother, until shortly before her death 25Mar1948. She and John are buried in Mt Olivet Cemetery in Anaconda.
Her siblings, all born in Ireland, were Denis (b)Mar1853, Timothy (b)July1854, Eugene(b)? , Mary (b)June1858, Johanna (b)July1860 (Johanna and Mary died young), Cait(Catherine) (b)Mar1862, Ellen (b)May1867, Mary #2 (b)Jan1869, Philip and Seamus(James) (b)Apr1872, Johanna #2 (b)Jan1874.
Much has been researched and written about the Borden murders and Brigit's
connection; however, she apparently took any knowledge of the event to her grave. I hope to find an actual family connection or be able to discount her part in the crime.
Thank you in advance for any information available out there. Naomi Farthing Sullivan.


http://genforum.genealogy.com/sullivan/ ... /1241.html

Looking for information on Margaret Hanley,Sullivan Harrington of Butte,MT My grandmother Margaret was born 1827 in Cork Ireland she married Cornelius Sullivan in Cork in 1843 their children were
1.Mary Sullivan born 1848 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland
2.Jeremiah {Jerry} Sullivan born 1-1851 in Dooneen Village county Cork Ireland
3.John Sullivan born 1855 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland married Bridget Harrington
4.Margaret Sullivan born 1855 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland
5.Cornelius Sullivan born in Dec. 1857 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland
6.Michael Sullivan born 1860 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland
7.Denis Sullivan born 1863 in Allihies Village, county Cork Ireland an Ellen ?
8. Jeremiah Sullivan b. 1-1851 Married 1871 at St. Michaels Church in Allihies Village, County Cork, Ireland to Mary Shea b.10-1855
After Cornelius died in Ireland Margaret married Patrick Harrington, which I believ is to be some relation to Bridget Harrington because there was a Patrick and Daniel Harrington who were witnesses for Son John Sullivan and Bridget Harrington in Ireland Jan. 1874 I am doing our family tree and am at a dead end it Margaret and Patrick Harrington. I would like to find any of their family members that can help me complete my information on Margaret Harrington and her life. thanks her gggreat grand-daughter Traci

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/p ... :3792.html

Maybe I should've explained more clearly what I meant by being confused. It seems when you are trying to trace Bridget there are many names that seem to repeat themselves, though they appear not to be the same people you are looking for, or are they? I don't know. The names repeat, so unless you knew this was THE Denis, or Mary, or Bridget, or John, or Margaret Sullivan with certainty it would be easy to become confused. This is also just one example, there were probably many more.

Patrick Harrington appears in both of these accounts with no information about him other than his name is Patrick Harrington, he married a Margaret who was then a Sullivan, and was therefore related to the Sullivans. Is he the same Patrick Harrington? How do we know? There is also an exact 10 year difference in each of the siblings that both of these people share. Is it possible that our Bridget and that Margaret were related through this said Patrick Harrington?

The marriage of this John Sullivan and Bridget Harrington may have produced another Bridget Sullivan, married to a John, also from Alihies, who lived in Butte Montana, into the mix. Although since they were married in 1874 she would appear to be older than the Bridget we seek. It just seems like when you come down to it, it's all a name game unless you have access to the official documentation for these people.



In Rebello on page 66 he states this in a profile of Bridget:

It is believed Bridget Sullivan was in Anaconda, Montana, by 1897. She was found to be a resident in Anaconda, working as a domestic. A marriage certificate dated 1905, was issued to John M. Sullivan and Bridget Sullivan. The marriage took place on June 21, 1905, at St. Paul's Church by Father J.M. O' Brien. Attendants for the newlyweds were Peter J. Sullivan and another woman named named Bridget Sullivan who was a domestic for Judge George B. Winston. Mr. John Sullivan was born in Ireland ( 1868 as engraved on his headstone and the 1920 Federal Census listed his age as 52) and was the son of James and Margaret ( Leary) Sullivan. He came to the United States in 1888 and became a citizen in 1896. He was listed in the Anaconda City Directory in 1896. (1920 Federal Census) He was listed in the Anaconda City Directory in 1896. John Sullivan was a laborer, puncher and converter, furnace man, smeleterman and later a helper for the Anaconda Copper Mining Company. After their marriage Bridget continued to work as a domestic.

Then on page 67 in Rebello:

Note:

Bridget's birth date has remained a mystery and conflicts with most dates on various documents and newspaper accounts. However, Bridget testified at the preliminary hearing in 1892 (pg 45) that she arrived in New York, " Six years ago, the 24th of last May." ( May 24, 1886) and was, at the time of her testimony, " Twenty - five years old." The only in-coming ship to list a Bridget Sullivan on May 24, 1886 was the S.S Republic . The manifest shows "Brigt. (Bridget) Sullivan, [age] 20, female, spinster, from Ireland, [to] United States, [boarded at] Qtown, [Queenstown Ireland] ,[location of space occupied on ship], aftw, [rear] ,stg, [steerage] with 1 piece of baggage" If Bridget's testimony is correct, she was born in 1866 and was 26 years old when she testified in 1892.

Riobard O'Dwyer, a genealogist, shows a birth date of "March 17, 1864" making Bridget 28 years old in 1892. A marriage certificate lists a birth date of February 3, 1871. Bridget would have been 21 years old in 1892. A birth date of 1869 was engraved on her headstone which would have made Bridget 23 years old at the time of the murders. When Bridget signed her will in 1942, she wrote,"...being of the age of sixty -nine (69) years..." This would show a birth date of 1873 and Bridget as 19 years old in 1892. Bridget may not have known her birth date but she was very specific about her arrival in New York.

It seems to me that even with the access to the so called official documents, there is still some confusion as to whether or not this would be our Bridget Sullivan, in my mind anyway. I cannot believe that her birthdate would jump from anywhere to 1866, to 1867, to 1864, to 1871, to 1869, to then to 1873. It seems there was most probably, to my mind anyway, a mix up of the Bridget Sullivan's in at least a few of the areas in which this research was conducted.

[theebmonique]

Melissa, I apologize, I am a bit confused by your last post. I want to be clear I understand it as there is quite a bit of information involved. Is this an inquiry from someone else on the geneaology site you go to now and then, or is it your inquiry on that site ? The parts in regukar font are your words/response, and those in italics are somone else's ?


Thank you.

Tracy...

[Allen]

The information listed in the italics are posts made on the genealogy site. One was originally posted by someone named Traci Foster, and the other by Naomi Farthing Sullivan. I am not sure if these people knew or know each other, I am assuming they do not. They are two separate inquiries made by two separate people in two separate posts on the site.

[theebmonique]

Oh...ok...thanks


Tracy...

[Curryong]

Some more early speculation on this thread about Bridget's past. I must have had a brain spasm on the Harrison thread when I said Bridget's family had never been traced as I distinctly remember reading this thread early this year!

[irina]

I find Bridget's birth years interesting also. Curryong, you are probably the best one here to ask this question. Would a different calender have ever been used in Ireland? (Like my heritage is Russian and traditionally the old calender was used.) So, was the Julian calender ever used in Ireland for example. (This might be a Catholic question and I should be able to answer it but I have no idea.) I have never heard of a different calender from our modern one used in the UK, but such a thing could account for some confusion.

On the other hand I feel like saying, 14 KIDS! Who could ever keep track of that many kids? If they were mine I think I'd number them instead of name them.

[Curryong]

The short answer is not in Bridget's time. The Julian calender was used all over Britain until 1752 (and there were riots all over the place because of the adjustments.) The common people thought they'd been tricked out of seven days by the government!

I take it you mean the ordinary everyday calender not the various Church calenders (Saints' Days, Quarter Days etc.) Ireland was under British control from the 17th century until the early 1920's and would have followed the same calender.

I know what you mean! A numbering system would have to be in place, and how they fed them all heaven knows, although I suppose the older offspring would have been working by the time the youngest ones were getting bigger.

[debbiediablo]

I find Bridget's birth years interesting also. Curryong, you are probably the best one here to ask this question. Would a different calender have ever been used in Ireland? (Like my heritage is Russian and traditionally the old calender was used.) So, was the Julian calender ever used in Ireland for example. (This might be a Catholic question and I should be able to answer it but I have no idea.) I have never heard of a different calender from our modern one used in the UK, but such a thing could account for some confusion.

On the other hand I feel like saying, 14 KIDS! Who could ever keep track of that many kids? If they were mine I think I'd number them instead of name them.

The older ones keep track of the younger ones. My grandmother (who ran an outstanding household) always said rear the first one right, and the second one right, and the rest will fall into place.

[irina]

I was referring to the Julian calender and am unsure how long the Church used it. The calender of feasts, saints' days, etc. is a different thing and shouldn't change birth dates. There's something strange about Irish records I can't remember. It has come up with the search for Mary Jane Kelly. Something about Irish births not registered the same as other births in the UK. It may have to do with when Britain required registrations but Bridget would fall in the period when this was standardized. (Curryong, consider MJK & Bridget were about the same age. One went to London, one went to America.)

Growing up in such a large family may be why Bridget didn't marry until she was too old to reproduce. Maybe it was her form of birth control. Maybe she didn't want to raise a large family in poverty. Wonder if she told Abby about her life at home in Ireland?

[Curryong]

I've just noted, on the site 'Findmypast' they say Civil (government) registrations of births, marriages and deaths started late in Ireland. 1864. Before that it was all parish records. All 19th century Irish census records have been destroyed.

Yes, indeed. MJK and Bridget. Different fates, but two famous murders!

[debbiediablo]

Accurate ages seem to have been less than relevant way back when....

The most famous murder in this area was Old Dan Shine, 57-60, who hired Pearl Hines, 27-30, as a housekeeper in 1936, married her on April 30, deeded his farm in Mossy Glen to her on April 1, and was found stuffed in a closet on May 7. He was a supposed suicide except for the blood stains where the body had been dragged across the floor and then rigged with a shot gun. Old Dan was killed May 5, less than a week after his unfortunate marriage. Pearl was sent to prison for murder along with several of her relatives and a younger boyfriend, age 18 or 19, who actually pulled the trigger, thinking Old Dan was already dead from a beating.

With regard to whether Bridget could obtain employment as a domestic following her connection with the Borden murders: sixteen years later when Pearl Shine was released from prison after her life sentence was commuted, she found employment....as a housekeeper!!! This is a woman who admitted that she was complicit in the murder of her previous employer. Where she worked as a housekeeper. She actually encouraged her 'boyfriend' to blow off her new husband's head... and was stupid enough not to scrub the floor afterward. I own a 1936 picture taken of Pearl in the Clayton County jail shortly after her confession. She looks entirely unconcerned...almost amused, pleased to be the center of attention.

Mossy Glen is said to be haunted by three different entities, but not by Pearl or Old Dan.

[irina]

Pearl Hines? Gee, no matter what Lizzie did or didn't do, she wasn't all that bad. Pearl killed Old Dan on my wedding anniversary, May 5. Sad.

That's that I thought about Ireland, Curryong. All those things ring the same bells that get rung all the time about finding MJK's family. Difficult. Then add families of 12 and 14 kids and families named for areas such as O' Sullivan for example, and the whole thing is impossible.

[twinsrwe]

Debbie, you mentioned that you own a 1936 picture taken of Pearl in the Clayton County jail shortly after her confession. She looks entirely unconcerned...almost amused, pleased to be the center of attention.

Does the picture of Pearl at the end of these newspaper articles, resemble the picture you have of her?

http://tinyurl.com/33c3w2q

[debbiediablo]

Yes, the one in the upper right corner only it's the entire photo which shows all of her body, worn-out shoes, old-fashioned stockings like my grandmother used to wear, chair, background, etc. I bought it from a newspaper archive when they were moving to digital records. It's not one of a kind as every newspaper that carried the story and used the picture had their own copy, but it is original to 1936. Pearl had bright red hair. The name Hines is still common in this area, but the Shine family was killed out. Literally. Old Dan is buried about ten miles from where I live, and Mossy Glen is even closer.