Would Lizzie commit suicide?

[Harry]

This interesting bit of information appeared in Kent/Flynn's Sourcebook, page 108, as printed in the Boston Advertiser:

"Now that action has been taken by the police, Medical Examiner Dolan will not object to being named as the author of the hypothetical poisoning case given in Wednesday's second edition of the News. This case was widely circulated and very generally accepted as strong proof that Lizzie Borden did not use prussic acid. No one doubted that she would have committed suicide, had she been in possession of such a poison, as soon as she learned that she was suspected."

I couldn't find the "hypothetical poisoning case" referred to. Has anyone else heard of that?

[Doug]

I am not familiar with the hypothetical poisoning case mentioned in the news item. I do have doubts about Lizzie committing suicide, though. I think she had too much hang-tough, stick-to-itivness in her nature.

[diana]

In The Solution to the Borden Mystery, Fritz Adilz says that Lizzie bought poison in case the plan failed and her part in it was discovered. (The Hatchet, Vol.1:1 page 8)

I personally don't see Lizzie entertaining the idea of suicide.

The Boston Advertiser has 'News' capitalized -- do you think they're referring to the Fall River Daily News or FR Evening News? It looks as though it's an item that appeared on August 10th, right? -- because this is the Friday, August 12th edition and they say it appeared in Wednesday's paper.

I was wondering if it was the theory that the Bordens were poisoned by the milk. But this would not explain why Dolan would be not be OK with being named as the source on the 10th but would be OK on the 12th.

I'm at a loss here, too.

[Harry]

If it was Lizzie who attempted to buy the poison I wonder how she planned to use it.

If Lizzie did the crimes for the money Abby had to die first. There would be no guarantees that if she poisoned them both at the same time that Abby would die first.

So if poison was going to be the method then Abby would have to be poisoned first and separate from Andrew. She would then face the same problem of Andrew knowing it was her and having to kill him. With poison too?

The killings by axe or hatchet at least created a recognizable time gap (excluding Masterton's theory) between the crimes and accomplished the outcome she desired.

Poison is a poor choice of weapon if you want to leave the impression that an outsider came into the house and committed both murders. How would she explain the poison then?

Just thinking out loud.

[Harry]

The Boston Advertiser has 'News' capitalized -- do you think they're referring to the Fall River Daily News or FR Evening News? It looks as though it's an item that appeared on August 10th, right? -- because this is the Friday, August 12th edition and they say it appeared in Wednesday's paper.

I believe it's the Fall River Daily News. Later on in that newspaper article it refers to "Editor Milne refers strongly tonight in the News ...."

Rebello, p104, refers to one of Abby's pallbearers as being "John Almy, of Almy & Milne, Fall River Daily News"

Porter (p75) also says Milne was with the FR Daily News.

But (always a but) according to Lincoln, p140: "Mr. Almy and his close friend and partner Mr. Milne were joint owners of the Fall River Evening News, and the Herald, which was the morning voice of the establishment."

I would not be surprised if they were the same paper, one name for the morning edition another for the evening edition.

BTW, it was Almy & Milne who put up John Morse's bail money. (Porter, p75)

[Kat]

Thanks for bringing up Milne. He was on my list of new names to ponder before I went offline.
In your (Harry's) Various Papers Document, which I had been reading, had this on Milne which had piqued my interest:

"John C. Milne, one of Fall River's wealthy residents, was an old friend of Andrew Borden and is a firm believer in the innocence of his daughter. He is proprietor of the Evening News, and from the outset the editorial columns of his paper have been devoted to the defense of Lizzie Borden. This is the manner in which he sums up the week's doings to-night, and it may be taken as the opinion of all the supporters of the prisoner.

“There has been, up to the present, not a single item of evidence that can have any weight against the defendant, and John V. Morse and Bridget Sullivan, understood to be the Government's most important witnesses, have accounted for their movements on the days previous to the murder, on the day of the murder, and on the days following." ...etc..

--The New York Times, Sunday, August 28, 1892, page 8: "Lizzie Borden's Ordeal", news item out of "Fall River, Aug. 27."

[Franz]

If it was Lizzie who attempted to buy the poison I wonder how she planned to use it.

If Lizzie did the crimes for the money Abby had to die first. There would be no guarantees that if she poisoned them both at the same time that Abby would die first.

So if poison was going to be the method then Abby would have to be poisoned first and separate from Andrew. She would then face the same problem of Andrew knowing it was her and having to kill him. With poison too?

The killings by axe or hatchet at least created a recognizable time gap (excluding Masterton's theory) between the crimes and accomplished the outcome she desired.

Poison is a poor choice of weapon if you want to leave the impression that an outsider came into the house and committed both murders. How would she explain the poison then?

Just thinking out loud.

You are great, Harry! "If Lizzie did the crimes for the money Abby had to die first. There would be no guarantees that if she poisoned them both at the same time that Abby would die first." To be honest, I never thought of this before. All your other analysis are very convincing, too.

[PossumPie]

Seems the "hypothetical poisoning case" refers to the Bordon family becoming ill and Lizzie mentioning that she thought that someone was trying to poison her father. I tend to see this as setting up in people's minds the possibility of enemies, so when she did buy the Prussic Acid and kill them, suspicion would already be cast. I don't think Lizzie would have killed herself if just suspected, there were many other ways (hanging herself in her cell with a strip of petticoat) that she could have used. I think she was confident that in the end, she would be acquitted...that DOESN'T mean she was innocent though!

Brilliant observation that Mrs. Borden had to clearly without doubt die first! Legally, if it could be shown that Mr. Borden died first, his wealth would go to Mrs. Borden, who upon her death, it would go to her relatives, Lizzie/Emma could hypothetically have to share with many people.
BUT
If Mrs. Borden clearly died first, Mr. Borden's wealth would go to his two daughters. MAYBE that was why the large time between their deaths had to occur, which implicates one of the two daughters!!!!