The House

[Shelley]

Never heard about a sofa there - there is a reference to the room not having much in it other than the desk and clothes.Maybe it was a little settee?
Bobbie- these are for you as requested for your project.

[bobarth]

Shelley: Thanks for those pictures that was just what I needed. Did you all survive the monsoon without incident? I just love getting to talk to everyone at Lizzies house.......
Thanks Again!!!!! Love all your pictures and stories.

[Shelley]

We all survived and the guests just loved the howling winds Friday and Saturday night- those special sound effects added to the night time eerieness.
I spent the nights in the barn hayloft and with the halogen lights coming from the Churchill house side of the barn, and the red exit sign in the loft, the monster tree on the north side cast a big shadow on the south wall. It was amazing and pretty creepy listening to the wind and watching the great tree shake and toss about in the reddish glow.

I'm looking forward to seeing a photo of your Borden house miniature-even if it's not finished yet! Those granite stanchions are a great place from which to watch the fireworks on the Fourth of July- best seat in the house!
p.s. Len says he is really sorry you had to pay so much on ebay for his book!

[bobarth]

Wow, hope there is some of that special effects creepiness when I get there. I did put in an order with Dee for monsoon weather too. Sounds perfect for a night at the house.

Will take a picture of the little house tonight, was working on the attic windows last night so I can put the roof on it. Have tried to post a picture without any luck so may send it direct if I cant get it to post correctly.

Tell Len he is worth every penny, I really enjoyed getting to talk to him and cant wait to meet him in person. Can't wait to meet everyone, come on April!!!!

[Angel]

Never heard about a sofa there - there is a reference to the room not having much in it other than the desk and clothes.Maybe it was a little settee?
Bobbie- these are for you as requested for your project.

Look on the lower portion of the door. Could that be an orb?
(We've been doing a lot of ghost hunting in Harpers Ferry recently and have gotten some unbelievable pics and evp's, so I'm really tuned in to this stuff now.)

[Kat]

Do we know if Andrew's safe was in that little room?

I checked Desmond's robbery report in The Knowlton Papers and he doesn't mention it.
I also don't find a reference to where the safe was located in the Evening Standard.

[Kat]

On a new TV show on Halloween, Phenomena Police, they talked about dust creating orbs in digital photography.
One house they wanted to investigate was undergoing renovation and the investigators declined to work there until sometime after the reno was complete due to second-guessing dust particles. They said they would return in future. Just FYI.

[Harry]

Do we know if Andrew's safe was in that little room?

I checked Desmond's robbery report in The Knowlton Papers and he doesn't mention it.
I also don't find a reference to where the safe was located in the Evening Standard.

Bridget's Preliminary testimony (p79):

"Q. Had you finished the sitting room window then?
A. No Sir. Mr. Borden came through the kitchen door, and took a key off his shelf, and went up into his room.
Q. Up stairs did he keep a safe?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. In a room leading off his room?
A. Yes Sir."

Then Dolan, p158:

?Q. What did you do or see done in the rear room where Mr. and Mrs. Borden had slept?
A. We searched that room, searched the closets.
Q. There was a closet opening out of that, a room where the safe was?
A. It was a big room.
Q. The house was once used as two tenements?
A. Yes sir.
Q. In one room, a little office, there was a safe?
A. Yes sir."

Missy, that's a good find on the sofa. And good for you taking the time to read the primary documents. No matter how many times one reads them something new turns up.

[Angel]

On a new TV show on Halloween, Phenomena Police, they talked about dust creating orbs in digital photography.
One house they wanted to investigate was undergoing renovation and the investigators declined to work there until sometime after the reno was complete due to second-guessing dust particles. They said they would return in future. Just FYI.

What we've been finding is quite interesting. We take pics outside at night in Harpers Ferry and there doesn't seem to be any dust. The orbs show up and some of them are quite big. In the next pic there is nothing. But the really interesting stuff is when we get a wisp of something across a pic or traveling orbs. I didn't believe in a lot of this stuff, but since I've been going on these investigations and being right there it has piqued my interest.

[Kat]

Thanks Harry. And thanks Missy. So we've added two more pieces into the room off the Master bedroom. Cool.

[Shelley]

Looking back over old photos of the house, I came up with these from 1991 when that dreadful airconditioner stuck out of the window. People are usually amazed at how large the house actually is inside. It is certainly a "tall" house. The day this photo was taken I saw a little pile of rubble which had fallen out of the foundation, I saved a little chunk, hoping nobody would run out and yell at me when I picked it up!

[Shelley]

This was the color scheme before Martha and Ron painted it the tan shade. This is the way the house looks on those old photo postcards of the house from the 1970's.

[Kat]

Thanks!

I was thinking lately about all those claims about it being a house without hallways, but gee there is a large foyer, a landing above and 2 long hallways and one short hallway (in the attic) after all!

I wonder who was the first to say *no hallways!*

[RayS]

Thanks!

I was thinking lately about all those claims about it being a house without hallways, but gee there is a large foyer, a landing above and 2 long hallways and one short hallway (in the attic) after all!

I wonder who was the first to say *no hallways!*

I can only say that the narrow house did not have wide hallway from the front foyer to the back of the house. Rooms to either side. Having this is one way to distinguish an ordinary house from a mansion. IMO

You can look at the houses shown on TV or film dramas for examples. That mansion in "Psycho" has the wide hallway and stairs to the 2nd floor. That mansion in "Bonanza" (would a mere rancher own such a big house?) is another Hollywood House.

[Fargo]

I don't know if its been posted here on these several pages but I have seen two diagams, I would have to look for them.

One shows Andrew and Abby's bed with the headboard up against the rear ( backyard ) wall of the house,on the opposite side of the room from where the bed is now.

Another shows Bridget's bed with the foot of the bed facing the rear ( backyard ) wall, sitting broadside as you enter the room. That wouldn't do much for head room with the sloping ceiling.

Of course I also seen other diagrams that were obliviously false. One showed the front staircase as having a 90 degree turn on the upper part instead of the curve that it has. Another diagram showed the two front rooms on the third floor not being there at all, in fact the write up said that there was just an open area there. Both of these were, of course, wrong.

[RayS]

I don't know if its been posted here on these several pages but I have seen two diagams, I would have to look for them.

One shows Andrew and Abby's bed with the headboard up against the rear ( backyard ) wall of the house,on the opposite side of the room from where the bed is now.

Another shows Bridget's bed with the foot of the bed facing the rear ( backyard ) wall, sitting broadside as you enter the room. That wouldn't do much for head room with the sloping ceiling.
...

I have seen bedrooms under a sloping roof. The foot of the bed was towards the middle, which is not a good idea IMO. But it seems that this method is often shown in magazines, and this controls people's thinking.

[Fargo]

Ray, how come you almost always answer with a quote? Especially when the posting you are quoting is right next to yours? It just seems like a big waste of space on the server.

[Kat]

The Kieran official floorplans can be found in de Mille's A Dance of Death and the cellar plan is in Knowlton Papers. I don't recall one of the attic introduced at trial, altho Rebello has a good one on page 49.

[Shelley]

I have also wondered about the bed in Abby and Andrew's room. In the guest room the headboard covers the old fireplace mantel because they did not use the fireplace. The guestroom would have been the parlor when 2 families lived there.

In Andrew's master bedroom, currently the bed covers what would have been the chimney flue for a stove. Since the house was a 2-family, this would have been the kitchen upstairs so I don't think there was a mantel, just a stovepipe flue. What I cannot work out is when the house was a 2-family- where were the bedrooms for the second floor people? I am guessing maybe there was no diningroom, and the space that is now Emma's room and Abby's dressing room may have held beds?
Looking at the east wall in the Borden's bedroom, the distance from that window to the corner is pretty narrow and I wonder if a double bed headboard would have fit. Jeff- maybe we can measure it tonight? Jeff will be spending his first night in that room- and the house.

[Yooper]

The floorplan seems to indicate that both units had two bedrooms originally with the downstairs dining room being the result of removing the wall between the bedrooms. My guess would be that the units were identical and the sitting room/Lizzie's room as the Bordens used the house were originally the dining rooms. They could have been used as sitting rooms if meals were eaten in the kitchen. The size/number of the bedrooms might indicate the need for a formal dining room. If the unit was designed for fewer occupants there might be less need for a large eating space.

The duplexes I'm familiar with from roughly that time period are usually represented currently as having one more bedroom than they were designed for. The floorplan as designed included a sitting room which is used as a bedroom nowadays. The lack of a closet in the room is a dead giveaway. These duplexes also included a formal dining room with a built-in china cabinet/sideboard, usually quite ornate. We have gotten away from the idea of a formal parlor used for entertaining and a less formal living room or sitting room for everyday use.

[Kat]

We had tried to figure out the possible previous layout. To conserve space, the sitting room was probably the family gathering room, meals eaten in the kitchen, no dining room and no parlour. The rest of the rooms would be bedrooms= the now dining room split into 2 (bedrooms) and the now guest room= bedroom and possibly the dress closet also as a small bedroom or baby's room.

[Yooper]

I have to wonder about the upstairs guest room being used as a bedroom when the house had separate units. It's odd that a bedroom would open to a public area like the landing/foyer.

[RayS]

I believe that the previous families did not have a dining room, just an EIK. A "dining room" is a sign of upper middle class in the 19th century, where the wealthy had separate rooms for every activity. That is why any home today has a "dining room" even if it is just part of the kitchen.

You can look this up somewhere on habits and culture.

[Shelley]

Well, one thing I think may be solved (photo coming soon). In the Borden's master bedroom, there is not enough room for a double bed on that east wall. It slams into the radiator and there are only two inches to spare between the corner and the headboard. Nobody could possibly have gotten out of the left side of the bed, the distance between window and southeast corner is so narrow. I believe the headboard was where it is now- in front of the unused chimney flue on the wall between Borden's and Lizzie's room.

[Jeff]

It would have been a difficult time for Abby to crawl out of bed!
I also believe the bed is where it is now. I had the pleasure of being
in that bed Friday night w/ Andrew's mean, old mug staring at me.
Or should I say saturday morning as we didn't go to bed until 2AM

[Shelley]

A picture is worth a thousand words- you see the dilemma of cramming a double bed back in that corner. The radiator hits about 2/3 down the bed on the side and there is no room to get out.

[Oscar]

Shelley, I must have missed something, why do you want to move the bed?

[Shelley]

Oh sorry! We were discussing 2 diagrams made in the Borden room- one is Kieran's and I think the other is in Agnes DeMille's book. Anyway, one shows the double bed in this corner on the east wall, the other shows it in front of the old flue on the mutual wall with Lizzie's room. I was trying to show it would never have worked out in the corner.

[Oscar]

Well, I'm sure the Bordens would not have placed the bed near or between those two windows, especially in the Winter. I don't think they had storm windows in the 1890's.

Was that I snow shoe I once observed on the floor in Lizzie's room?

[Shelley]

Yes- and a fishing pole and creel! And I quite agree, the bed will not work on that wall. No storm windows back then. Actually all but the sittingroom are replacements- I love two are original, and that due to the old Leary Press covering them for 50 years!

[Kat]

If you study the floorplans and/or testimony, you will see that the *guestroom* opens into what became Lizzie's room. In her time, she had a desk covering the doorway. Therefore the rooms were linked, if that helps.

I have to wonder about the upstairs guest room being used as a bedroom when the house had separate units. It's odd that a bedroom would open to a public area like the landing/foyer.

[Kat]

I also didn't understand why the bed was being moved.

Here is the Waring-Jennings family trial exhibit floorplan of the second floor, by Kieran from the Agnes de Mille book, a dance of death. The master bed shows its position from the Borden's day. It's still in the same place it has been since the house opened as a B&B, or at least since 1997 when Stef stayed and took pictures there.
I had talked to the FRHS when I was writing about the house for my Hatchet article (June/July 2004), and verified this is the actual floorplan that they have, only theirs is a different color and larger.

[Shelley]

This site has the bed in an odd place as well-in fact everything looks out of place!
http://historichouses.simshost.com/page8.htm
This is not the one I was thinking of- it is on another website -but the bed is in the corner. Yes, I think we can trust Kieran.

[Yooper]

If you study the floorplans and/or testimony, you will see that the *guestroom* opens into what became Lizzie's room. In her time, she had a desk covering the doorway. Therefore the rooms were linked, if that helps.

I have to wonder about the upstairs guest room being used as a bedroom when the house had separate units. It's odd that a bedroom would open to a public area like the landing/foyer.

It doesn't open to the landing?

[Shelley]

The guest room and Lizzie's room open to the landing but the communicating door between the two rooms was blocked by the bookcase and desk- the top of the desk was actually a bookcase, with a red portiere over it. Here's the door open between the two rooms. The desk there today has no top bookcase. Or red portiere either, come to think of it

[Yooper]

Shelley, I was addressing your earlier question about how the rooms were arranged when the house was used as a duplex. Houses are designed so that private spaces like bedrooms don't open to public areas like foyers or landings. They don't usually open to living rooms, either. Come to think of it, bedrooms don't often have more than one ingress/egress door.

We would have to consider the neighborhood at the time the house was built in order to ascribe any "social class" designation to it.

[Shelley]

Oh I see- I am in pre-Turkey day stupor. Well, I think it is a pretty good guess that the guest room was the "reception room" when it was a 2-family- that was pretty standard in the era for the room to the left of the entry landing or foyer. The second floor may have used what is now Lizzie's room as a diningroom which would be handy to the kitchen, or ate IN the kitchen and had no diningroom. I rather think that was the case. In a house so small, and for a socially unprominent family who did no formal entertaining, I rather doubt a formal diningroom was originally part of the floor plan. I'd bet it was a family room sort of space.

[Kat]

In my Hatchet article of June/July 2005, pages 38-39, you will see names of people who lived in the house prior to the Borden family.

There are quite a few people. That is why I doubt there would be room for a dedicated dining room or another gathering room other than a "sitting room," except when the core family was small. The fact that the guest room (now designated) had a door to the landing and also within the family unit itself, gives it the very possible use of a master bedroom, when there were no boarders. If there were boarders, it might be a better room for that, having the door also to the landing. (This would mirror the first floor).
Remember, the back room was a kitchen, and large enough to eat in. I don't think one floor would have all these "reception rooms." I don't think there was room. I think they had the *basics*.

In 1850:
#1231 Charles Trafton, 45
Hannah 32
Female 50
#1230 Isaac A. Simmons 40
Female 39
William C. 19
Samuel C. 15
Lucy A. 14
Ruth A. 10
Isaac 7

1860:
#1 Charles Trafton 50 (sic)
Rhoda White 60 (Housekeeper)
William Cook 34
Esther Cook 32
Charles B. Cook 10
Everett M. Cook 4
Ellen Also(?) 19 (Domestic)
#400 Ladwick Borden 48
Elisa F. 47 (Wife)
Maria 15

1870:
#262 Charles Trafton 66
Susan 42 (Wife)
George A. Pettey 31
Lydia Pettey 32
Ann A. Manchester 76
Ephraim C. Bliner (?) 13
#263 Ladwick Borden 58
Rhuana 56 (wife)
Lydia A. Crocker 39 (No occup.)
Masia Hinckly 25 (No occup.)


Of course boarders might possibly be housed in the attics, as well. We don't quite know which floor family had the use of that.

[Kat]

Shell, I think I recall the portiere at Lizzie's closet and at the door to the elder Borden's room, but not ever recall one over the desk that was up against the connecting door to the *guest room*.

(Alice describes coming thru the door with the police from Andrew's bedroom and there was a potiere there. The other one is described as being where Lizzie kept her toiletry- that *closet*.)

[Shelley]

I thought the "toilet room" back in the corner which is now a bookcase and drawers had the blue curtain drawn across it, with the red portieres over the bed headboard and a matching one over the communicating door into the guestroom? I often wondered about that as the bookcase was so tall- I will have to root out the lady reporter's description again. By definition a portiere is a long, heavy (usually velvet) curtain used to keep out drafts or to divide off rooms and are usually in entry ways or suspended on rings on a pole between parlors and diningrooms, etc. Portieres comes from the French, "porte" meaning door or entry. Some confuse it with a valance- which is a short hanging- not much more than a long ruffle.

[StevenB]

Not to be picky, but the vinyl wallpaper is like odd. The rugs are fantastic and must have been expensive, but the wallpaper chosen is too light for the period and of course they didn't have vinly paper in 1892.



Just a thought



Steven

[Shelley]

Absolutely correct. Mrs. Percy, the newspaper reporter describes Lizzie's room as having "a rich dark paper". The palette of William Morris was popular at the time. The rugs are wool , and a pretty good copy of what was there. There is quite a lot of good information on late Victorian wallpapers online, they usually came as sets comprised of ceiling, frieze and dado. Mixing of patterns was common, albeit gaudy to our eyes.
This paper by Mr. Burrows may be helpful http://www.burrows.com/theory.html
Bradbury and Bradbury reproduce vintage papers
http://www.bradbury.com/victorian/victorian.html

[StevenB]

Some of the ways of trying to find out what wallpaper was in a house is to look in the closets, until people got lazy the closets were often papered to match the rooms, and papered on all 4 walls, but later people only papered the back wall of the closet, so look over the door inside the closet. also look under papers, because people seldom stripped the old paper in closets. The other thing to do is research, assuming the Bordens bought their paper in FR, find out what stores sold paper, then you can look for advertisements for those stores, they may list lsomething ike, "A New Shipment Of WallPaper Has Arrived" in an newspaper ad, and may give the company name then you can trace the company. Look for inventories, sale ads and going out of business ads, and esp other homes in the area. Any surviving diaries or journals, I would assume the Bordens repapered in 1872, and probably redid Lizzies room when she switched rooms with Emma...... Of course I doubt Lizzie would have picked anything cheap..........


Steven











[quote="Shelley @ Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:47 pm"]Absolutely correct. Mrs. Percy, the newspaper reporter describes Lizzie's room as having "a rich dark paper". The palette of William Morris was popular at the time. The rugs are wool , and a pretty good copy of what was there. There is quite a lot of good information on late Victorian wallpapers online, they usually came as sets comprised of ceiling, frieze and dado. Mixing of patterns was common, albeit gaudy to our eyes.[/quote]

[Shelley]

No record of Lizzie changing wallpaper when she returned from Europe and switched rooms with Emma. I wonder if you saw the huge photo binders of the renovation of the house in 1995 when the walls were papered and massive work was done bringing the house up to code. Unfortunately the house had been painted and papered so many times, papers stripped, etc, no helpful clues of 1892 colors were left to discover.

[StevenB]

Wasn't there a rocking chair in the Kitchen? I thought Mrs. Churchill led Lizzie to a rocking chair in the kitchen, I could be wrong.


Steven

[b]Kitchen:[/b] From Lizzie and Alice's testimony we know for sure about a stove, a table in front of the stove, and a rocking chair. The location of the ice box is not known according to the chart but Rebello indicates it was in the sink room , not in the kitchen. This makes sense as the ice tray was always brimming with water from melted ice and being near the sink is an advantage. Some houses (like Maplecroft back kitchen wall) had an ice delivery window.

[StevenB]

Outside window screens back then slid into an aluminum slot or a channel inside the window frame so that the outside shutters would close. it was just a half screen it didn't cover the whole window. I think this is what was on the down stairs windows, which Bridget would have had to remove in order to clean them, slowing her down..........


Steven

[StevenB]

Wallpaper has been aroung for a thousand years probably, it got cheaper and more popular when they began mass producing it. Original only the rich could afford it.

http://www.history-magazine.com/wallpaper.html



History
Wallpaper, using the printmaking technique of woodcut, gained popularity in Renaissance Europe amongst the emerging gentry. The elite of society were accustomed to hanging large tapestries on the walls of their homes, a tradition from the Middle Ages. These tapestries added colour to the room as well as providing an insulating layer between the stone walls and the room, thus retaining heat in the room. However, tapestries were extremely expensive and so only the very rich could afford them. Less well-off members of the elite, unable to buy tapestries due either to prices or wars preventing international trade, turned to wallpaper to brighten up their rooms.

Early wallpaper featured scenes similar to those depicted on tapestries, and large sheets of the paper were sometimes hung loose on the walls, in the style of tapestries, and sometimes pasted as today. prints were very often pasted to walls, instead of being framed and hung, and the largest sizes of prints, which came in several sheets, were probably mainly intended to be pasted to walls. Some important artists made such pieces, notably Albrecht Dürer, who worked on both large picture prints and also ornament prints intended for wall-hanging. The largest picture print was the Triumphal Arch commissioned by the Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I and completed in 1515. This measured a colossal 3.57 by 2.95 metres, made up of 192 sheets, and was printed in a first edition of 700 copies, intended to be hung in palaces and, in particlar, town halls, after hand-colouring.

Very few samples of the earliest repeating pattern wallpapers survive, but there are a large number of old master prints, often in engraving of repeating or repeatable decorative patterns. These are called ornament prints and were intended as models for wallpaper makers, among other uses.

England seems to have been always a leader in wallpaper; the earliest known sample found on a wall comes from England and is printed on the back of a London proclamation of 1509. It became very popular in England following Henry VIII's excommunication from the Catholic Church - English aristocrats had always imported tapestries from Flanders and Arras, but Henry VIII's split with the Catholic Church had resulted in a fall in trade with Europe. Without any tapestry manufacturers in England, English gentry and aristocracy alike turned to wallpaper.

During The Protectorate under Oliver Cromwell, England became an austere and dull country, and the manufacture of wallpaper, seen as a frivolous item by the Puritan government, was halted. Following the Restoration of Charles II, wealthy people across England began demanding wallpaper again - Cromwell's regime had imposed a boring culture on people, and following his death, wealthy people began purchasing comfortable domestic items which had been banned under the Puritan state. By the mid-eighteenth century, Britain was the leading wallpaper manufacturer in Europe, exporting vast quantities to Europe in addition to selling on the middle-class British market. However this trade was seriously disrupted in 1755 by the Seven Years War and later the Napoleonic Wars, and by a heavy level of duty on imports to France.

In 1748 the English ambassador to Paris decorated his salon with blue flock wallpaper, which then became very fashionable there. In the 1760's the French manufacturer Réveillon hired designers working in silk and tapestry to produce some of the most subtle and luxurious wallpaper ever made. Towards the end of the century the fashion for scenic wallpaper revived in both England and France, leading to some enormous panoramas, like the 1804 20 strip wide English one showing the Voyages of Captain Cook, which is still in situ in Ham House, Peabody Massachusetts. Like most of eighteenth century wallpapers, this was designed to be hung above a dado.

During the Napoleonic Wars , trade between Europe and Britain evaporated, resulting in the gradual decline of the wallpaper industry in Britain. However, the end of the war saw a massive demand in Europe for British goods which had been inaccessible during the wars, including cheap, colourful wallpaper. The development of steam-powered printing presses in Britain in 1813 allowed manufacturers to mass-produce wallpaper, reducing its price and so making it affordable to working-class people. Wallpaper enjoyed a huge boom in popularity in the nineteenth century, seen as a cheap and very effective way of brightening up cramped and dark rooms in working-class areas. By the early twentieth century, wallpaper had established itself as one of the most popular household items across the Western world.




[quote="Kat @ Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:16 pm"]I think if you have bare floors, even at least around the edges of carpeting, the extra wide *baseboard* was so that when one [i]mopped[/i] the wallpaper would not get wet, and eventually peel.
But was wallpaper common when that house was built, c. 1845? Or wallpaper was a newer decoration done up maybe in Andrew's day- and wide mop boards came along at the same time?
I'm only surmising. But in my house, my sister was mopping (with a real mop of yarn, which I never used) an empty spare bedroom floor and the next thing I knew the phone no longer worked. I figured out very quickly that mop water, flung around a bit, got into the phone jack that was situated just above our little 3" baseboards. She had no idea. I knew immediately.[/quote]

[StevenB]

YUP, they did! I restored a house built in 1804 and we found the original storm windows under the barn in the mud.


Steven




[quote="Oscar @ Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:17 pm"]Well, I'm sure the Bordens would not have placed the bed near or between those two windows, especially in the Winter. I don't think they had storm windows in the 1890's.

Was that I snow shoe I once observed on the floor in Lizzie's room?[/quote]

[StevenB]

Empire and horse hair!! Very slippery don't know how guests will like that! Some where I read the the furniture in the house in 1892 was from 30 years ago.


Steven



[quote="Shelley @ Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:53 pm"]Actually we know Abby bought the lace curtains for the parlor (Rebello), there was a pull chain water closet in the cellar for the girls (privy in the barn), and the furniture was said to be 30 years out of style when they moved into the house in 1872, so we are looking at Empire style stuff.

I will remember to get a photo of the lamps next week. :grin:[/quote]

[StevenB]

After a while you get use to the clock you don't even notice it! For lizzie it was something she heard day after day year after year, she probably tuned it out after a while. Or wasn't even consious of it. Bridget on the other had was probably counting the seconds until her work was done and she could go back to her room.


Steven




[quote="Susan @ Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:44 am"]I just can't help but think that it would have lent some credibility to Lizzie's story of where she was during Andrew's murder if she had mentioned the city hall clock tolling. She mentions other things, like the chip she picked up off the floor in the barn, but, nothing so concrete as that clock. I don't think that anyone asked or thought to ask her where she was or what she was doing when the clock tolled either?

I did a search and found this:

Howard Clock Installations
Record#--Model--City--State--Date Installation--Location
8/105-----#3 S--Fall River-MA-------1889---------City Hall

and this:

City Hall, Fall River, MA
An 11-bell chime by McShane was installed in this city in 1908; the location is uncertain. Three of these bells were re-installed with an hour bell (from a separate source?) in a free-standing clock tower near the City Hall in 1981, and rededicated in 1992. The other 8 bells are reported to be in storage. This site is identified in the database as
FALL RIVER - CH : USA - MA[/quote]