Uncle John returns

[Harry]

I've been reading Uncle John's trial testimony of what he did when he entered the house after his return from his Weybosset street visit.

Trial - Page 154+

"Q. And then where did you go?
A. Went into the sitting room.
Q. The sitting room first?
A. Yes, sir. Well, I went into the kitchen and from there in: of course I had to go there.
Q. Yes, I understand. And after going into the sitting room did you go into the dining room?
A. Not at that time.
Q. Did you go upstairs before you went into the dining room?
A. I went part way up.
Q. And did you go up stairs before you saw Miss Lizzie?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now when did you first see her, and where?
A. When I came down after I went part way up the stairs, she was sitting in the dining room on the lounge.
Q. Do you know who were there with her?
A. I don't think there was anyone: there was no one on the lounge with her.
Q. Don't you remember there were some ladies there?
A. Well, I say there was Mrs. Churchill and Miss Russell. They were in the other room: they were not in there.
Q. Were they in the sitting room?
A. They were in the sitting room when I went in.
Q. Where Mr. Borden was lying on the sofa?
A. Yes, sir."

There's several interesting things in his testimony:

He claims that Alice Russell and Mrs. Churchill were in the sitting room while Andrew's body was still there. I don't remember that either were in the sitting room.

He went up stairs to view Abby before talking with Lizzie in the dining room. He didn't think anyone was there when he talked with her. I would have thought the first person he would have wanted to see was Lizzie.

There are also differences between his Preliminary and Trial testimonies , regarding where Bridget and Sawyer were and what they did when he first saw them.

You never know what to believe when you read his testimony.

[Shelley]

True Harry - and Mrs. Churchill stated she did not want to see Andrew, even when asked. Which sounds like she did not go into the sitting room. I think she said she had seen him earlier that morning and he had looked "so nice" and she did not want to see him cut up. He may have meant parlor- not sitting room. I would think the parlor would have been a good place to wait out of the way of the police, carnage and bustle.

[Nadzieja]

I thought that he didn't seek out Lizzie first seemed a little off, however when he came to visit, she didn't stick her head in the dinning room & say hello. She knew he was in there. I thought that was strange because if I heard my aunt or uncle in the next room & I didn't see them for awhile, of course I would go in to see them. I really thought his actions when he first got to the house & saw the crowd were way off. If you saw a crowd at your house would you just stand outside?? All I could think of was maybe he was waiting to see someone or waiting for something to happen.

[DJ]

Mr. Morse's actions, upon his return that a.m., are odd-- to put it politely. I would term them suspicious. He seems to under-react outside, then to overreact once inside. I recall testimony, either at the inquest or the trial, that he said something along the lines of, "Good Lord, how could this have happened to this wonderful man [Andrew]," according to someone else present.
Morse also makes a show of wanting the last letter Andrew wrote him, and speaks of how Andrew clasped his hand just before their departure, allegedly saying, "You will join us for dinner?" {Because they're sooooo close, so Morse would never, ever harm his dear brother-in-law.}
Speaking of which, if he's home for dinner, why is he outside eating those pears? Oh-so-nonchalantly. Overall testimony by others indicates there were already at least a dozen people milling about the front door Just a little appetizer?
His reactions are devoid of surprise and shock.
This man knew something in advance, at the very least.

[Angel]

It might have been nothing more than his awareness of Lizzie's oddness which could have been discussed with Andrew the night before because Andrew saw Lizzie getting squirrelier than ever and was upset. Maybe he was afraid of entering the house because he wasn't sure if Lizzie was swinging from the chandeliers or if she was going to attack Him. We'll never know.

[augusta]

Well, he hung around the cellar door and told a reporter that door was not locked. Then someone said it was locked. He tried to say that's where the murderer entered, but that was squashed pretty quickly by, I think, Bridget.

And those trips to the post office! Why didn't the police insist on seeing what he was mailing and what he was receiving? He could have been communicating with the killer.

Emma kept in contact with Uncle Morse between his visits to FR. They say Lizzie did not. When Morse died, Lizzie refused his $600+ inheritance. As Andrew's daughter, do you think she would refuse six hundred bucks?

When she was in her jail cell in FR and Matron Reagan said she'd bet Lizzie a dollar that Lizzie couldn't break an egg in a certain way. Lizzie said, "Let's make it a quarter".

It could be that Lizzie just couldn't stand him. He was known as a 'character' in Hastings, Iowa. Maybe he was one of those types that thought he was funny but he was only annoying. He never wrote ahead to give them an exact date that he was coming. All of a sudden, he shows up at their door with "Feed me" practically written on his forehead. He was cheap - he is compared to Andrew by some, and that may be a big reason they got along so well. He tried to bill the city of FR for something really stupid as a 'trial expense'. The guy stunk to high heaven. Lizzie, struggling to be higher on the FR social ladder, was probably repulsed by him.

[Tina-Kate]

It could be that Lizzie just couldn't stand him. He was known as a 'character' in Hastings, Iowa. Maybe he was one of those types that thought he was funny but he was only annoying. He never wrote ahead to give them an exact date that he was coming. All of a sudden, he shows up at their door with "Feed me" practically written on his forehead. He was cheap - he is compared to Andrew by some, and that may be a big reason they got along so well. He tried to bill the city of FR for something really stupid as a 'trial expense'. The guy stunk to high heaven. Lizzie, struggling to be higher on the FR social ladder, was probably repulsed by him.

You are TOO funny.

I totally agree he was "a character". I believe he was a tad "out to lunch" and in his own little world much of the time.

[Allen]

And those trips to the post office! Why didn't the police insist on seeing what he was mailing and what he was receiving? He could have been communicating with the killer.

Well it seems the police did pay some attention to what was being sent and received during these trips.

The Witness Statements page 9 from the notes of Doherty and Harrington:

We were on guard at the house from 1 A.M until 9 A.M Friday. At one o'clock the house was all darkness, and so remained all night. There was no noise until about 6:20 A.M. About 6:30 A.M. Mr. John Morse came to the side door, said "good morning", and spoke about the weather. At 8:30 A.M. he came out, and going over S.H. Miller's , he called on Bridget, who stayed there that night. He then went to the P.O., stopped about a minute, went out and across to Geo. E. Howe's where he purchased a two cent stamp. He then returned to the P.O. and at 8:32 A.M. dropped a letter addressed to Wm. A. Davis So. Dartmouth. It bore the words "In Haste" . On his way he tried the Daily News door, and it was not open.

[Allen]

Trial testimony of Adelaide B. Churchill page 130:

Q. Did you see Mr. Morse before you went home?
A. Yes, sir. He came before I went home.

Q. About what time in the order of events did he come?
A. Both Mr. and Mrs. Borden had been found when he came. I think I was the first one that let him in. I says " Mr. Morse, something terrible has happened, somebody has killed both Mr. and Mrs. Borden." He says "what", and hollered "Lizzie", as loud as he could holler, and rushed into the dining room. Alice Russell heard him, and I think let him in, and he went into the sitting room and the door was closed between the sitting room and the kitchen.

Q.That was after both were discovered?
A. Yes sir.

Q. Was it pretty soon after both were discovered?
A. Yes sir.

[SteveS.]

Is there something telling in the way Mrs. Churchill described Uncle John's words as she greeted him at the door and told him somebody has killed Mr. and Mrs. Borden....he said "what? and then hollered "Lizzie" as loud as he could and then rushed into the dining room where Lizzie was? Kind of sounds like he suspected that Lizzie was behind the murders ....or could be just the concern of a kindly uncle for his niece . Also the discrepancy about his movements as he entered the house as described by Mrs. Churchill and the way Uncle John described them. I'm curious as to whether Alice Russell ever testified about Uncle John's arrival.

[diana]

I'm curious as to whether Alice Russell ever testified about Uncle John's arrival.

"A. I got Lizzie into the dining room, on to the dining room lounge, and we were there, I don't know how long, when her uncle came in.
Q. That is Morse?
A. Yes Sir. And something he said about they're being murdered, and looked up to her, then it dawned on my mind that it was cold blooded murder. That is the first idea that I had that it was murder.
Q. You did not see Morse until he got into the room where Lizzie was?
A. No. I had not seen Mr. Morse for years before.
Q. That room where you were with Lizzie, was what room?
A. The dining room. The first room I was in was the kitchen.
Q. The sitting room was where the murdered man was?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Who was with you and with Lizzie?
A. In the dining room, I don't think there was any one, no one in the dining room, except when Mr. Morse came in.
Q. What did you find Lizzie's appearance and condition to be, when you got there?
A. Dazed." (Alice Russell: Inquest)

As for the locked cellar door -- Charles Sawyer testified at trial that he locked it after he arrived. He was one of the first people on the scene -- so was the cellar door unlocked when he came?

Although it's a little difficult to determine from his statement exactly when he locked it, he says he did so because he "didn't know but what somebody might be concealed round there" which makes it appear as though it was early on in the proceedings and before the police arrived. (See Trial page 1477+)

[Susan]

Hi, Diana. I believe the door that Morse was trying to say was unlocked was the cellar door that leads into the back yard. The door that Charles Sawyer bolted was the door in the hallway that lead to the cellar stairs.

Trial volume 2, page 1477:

Q. Did you at any time shut the cellar door going down cellar, ---lock it or anything?
A. I pushed the bolt in that door.

Q. You don't mean the outside door, of course?
A. I mean the one that goes down in the cellar from that back entry.

From the rest of his testimony there, it sounds like he was quite nervous being in the side entryway by himself. Afraid someone might come up from the cellar or down from upstairs, so, he went outside the screen door to continue his guard duty.

[diana]

Thanks, Susan! You're absolutely right. I obviously didn't read Sawyer's testimony closely enough! Good call...

[augusta]

Yes, thanks, Susan! For a minute there, I thought I had been believing in a huge error.

[Shelley]

Sawyer was a man and he was nervous! Imagine being a 5 foot 3 lady and standing in that back hall by that unbolted cellar door where a killer might be hiding ready to spring out to make a desperate getaway. She's alone now in the house with a corpse and a possible homicidal maniac. Kind of makes you wonder about Lizzie's nerves of steel doesn't it?

[nbcatlover]

The way I read the testimony, Sawyer locked the cellar door in the BACk of the house. There is a back entry to the cellar.

[Shelley]

He would have had to go down the stairs into the cellar to lock the East side back door from the inside. Maybe he went around to the back of the house to lock it from the outside. If he shot the bolt on the door going from the back entry to the cellar, then ran around the back of the house and locked the cellar door from the outside, then anyone in the cellar would have been effectively trapped until the police got back- unless of course it was possible to unlock the rear entry eastside cellar doors from the INSIDE, in which case shooting the upstairs bolt would only protect people from the killer who were inside the house. .
That would make sense and he would not have had to put himself in danger.
There are actually two east side cellar doors- one is on the little bulkhead structure which opens today on the parking lot. When you go down the cellar steps, which are quite steep, there is a wide, original plank inner door which I think still has the original hardware on it. It has a turn latch. Maybe Sawyer only locked that outer door.

[augusta]

Thanks for the post about the letter Morse mailed with 'In Haste' on it, Allen.

Harry has pointed out before, why did Morse go across the street to buy a 2-cent stamp when he was already at the post office

[Allen]

No problem Augusta. The way I interpreted Sawyer's testimony was he locked the door located in the back entry. The one which leads to the kitchen. He stated he didn't step outside any further than the steps.

Page 1478:

"Q. You don't mean the outside door, of course?
A. I mean the one that goes down in the cellar from the back entry.

Q. What did you do that for?
A. Well, I didn't know but what someone might be concealed round there.

Q. Did you step outside the house at any time?
A. Yes, I stepped outside on the steps.

Q. Were you a little nervous yourself?
A. Yes, I was."

[snokkums]

I don't remember either of them being in the sitting room either, Harry. I do remember something about Mrs. Churchill and Alice Russell being in the kitchen with Lizzie. And, I too, think it is strange that he would have wanted to see the body of Abby first; it seems to me that he would have wanted to see Lizzie.

But, maybe like Angel said, he might have been aware of Lizzies' oddness(which might have been discussed with Andy). He might not have been too sure what state of mind she was in. Was she still swinging the axe, or was she just have out of her mind because her parents just have been killed?

[Franz]

Mr. Morse's actions, upon his return that a.m., are odd-- to put it politely. I would term them suspicious. He seems to under-react outside, then to overreact once inside. I recall testimony, either at the inquest or the trial, that he said something along the lines of, "Good Lord, how could this have happened to this wonderful man [Andrew]," according to someone else present.
Morse also makes a show of wanting the last letter Andrew wrote him, and speaks of how Andrew clasped his hand just before their departure, allegedly saying, "You will join us for dinner?" {Because they're sooooo close, so Morse would never, ever harm his dear brother-in-law.}
Speaking of which, if he's home for dinner, why is he outside eating those pears? Oh-so-nonchalantly. Overall testimony by others indicates there were already at least a dozen people milling about the front door Just a little appetizer?
His reactions are devoid of surprise and shock.
This man knew something in advance, at the very least.

"He seems to under-react outside, then to overreact once inside." I totaly agree. In my opinion, Morse had been a very bad actor after he returned to the Borden house. Knowlton was just too convineced of Lizzie's guilt to be able to perceive Morse's suspicious behaviours. There were so many questions that Knowlton failed to think of asking Morse. The case remained unsolved, and I am not surprised at all!

[Franz]

I've been reading Uncle John's trial testimony of what he did when he entered the house after his return from his Weybosset street visit.

Trial - Page 154+

"Q. And then where did you go?
A. Went into the sitting room.
Q. The sitting room first?
A. Yes, sir. Well, I went into the kitchen and from there in: of course I had to go there.
Q. Yes, I understand. And after going into the sitting room did you go into the dining room?
A. Not at that time.
Q. Did you go upstairs before you went into the dining room?
A. I went part way up.
Q. And did you go up stairs before you saw Miss Lizzie?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now when did you first see her, and where?
A. When I came down after I went part way up the stairs, she was sitting in the dining room on the lounge.
Q. Do you know who were there with her?
A. I don't think there was anyone: there was no one on the lounge with her.
Q. Don't you remember there were some ladies there?
A. Well, I say there was Mrs. Churchill and Miss Russell. They were in the other room: they were not in there.
Q. Were they in the sitting room?
A. They were in the sitting room when I went in.
Q. Where Mr. Borden was lying on the sofa?
A. Yes, sir."

There's several interesting things in his testimony:

He claims that Alice Russell and Mrs. Churchill were in the sitting room while Andrew's body was still there. I don't remember that either were in the sitting room.

He went up stairs to view Abby before talking with Lizzie in the dining room. He didn't think anyone was there when he talked with her. I would have thought the first person he would have wanted to see was Lizzie.

There are also differences between his Preliminary and Trial testimonies , regarding where Bridget and Sawyer were and what they did when he first saw them.

You never know what to believe when you read his testimony.

As a memory to Harry I re-read some of his threads. In this one Harry said: "I would have thought the first person he would have wanted to see was Lizzie." Harry, me too I think so, and I think all the persons present in the Borden house that morning thought so either, as Mrs. Churchill testified (Inquest testimony, p. 130):

... I think I was the first one that let him in. I says, “Mr. Morse, something terrible has happened, someone has killed both Mr. and Mrs. Borden.” He says, “what”, and hollered “Lizzie”, as loud as he could holler...

Look: Morse, while hollering as loud as he could Lizzie's name, he made a two bodys' tour in the house before talking with Lizzie.

In this trial testimony above quoted by Harry, Morse said that he "went into the kitchen and from there in (the sitting room)". It seems that he was saying that he went into the sitting room from the kitchen (directly through the door connecting the kitchen and the sitting room). I don't believe him. I think Morse was trying to "clean" himself from his suspicious behaviours one year after the murder, during the trial. I don't believe him, since one year ago, Mrs. Churchill continued her testimony as follows (Ibid.):

and (Morse) rushed into the dining room. Alice heard him, and I think let him in, and he went into the sitting room and the door was closed between the sitting room and the kitchen.

Concerning the being closed of the door between the kitchen and the sitting room, the testimony of Mrs. Churchill was supported by that of Dr. Bowen. I still believe that the itinerary of Morse was this one: entering into the house, then from the kitchen into the dining room (where Alice and Lizzie were, to whom Morse didn't speak nothing, even though he was hollering loudly Lizzie's name! LOL!!!), and then, from the dining room into the sitting room. And no one testified to have informed Morse about the location of Andrew's body.

[irina]

I think Morse was extremely observant. I have an idea that word of mouth (tales passing from person to person, Franz) had spread news of the murders all the way to Weybosset St. or wherever Morse was visiting. I think he was well informed and well prepared when he got back to Second St. and I think he continued to observe before he expressed himself. A glance in the kitchen and dining room would tell him there were no bodies there. The sitting room would therefore either contain a body or be the logical path toward finding a body.

I think Victoria Lincoln made a big deal about Morse saying, "Lizzie!" It could be taken that he suspected her or that he was questioning if she was OK. I think Morse became somewhat paranoid over whether or not the cellar door had actually been locked at the time of the murders. That adds another angle to some of his actions that appear to be a bit guilty in that it looks to me like he suspected an intruder via the cellar. If he was part of a plot I don't know why he would obsess about the cellar door.

[Curryong]

I agree with you, Irina. I wouldn't be placing too much importance on that exclamation. It was most probably shock and relief that his sister's child had escaped the slaughter. He, after all, remained at no. 92 as a protector and back-up to Emma (whether she wanted him there or not) until almost the end of the year. He also worried about the defective spring lock on the front door and, as he says in his testimony, tested that door several times (to see if an intruder could enter.

[debbiediablo]

I haven't given Morse much consideration as a suspect simply because his alibi was supposedly rock solid. But in honor of Stefani's inability to let go of his contradictory testimony and Franz's absolute conviction that he's the culprit, let's examine Uncle John. This is my off-the-cuff scenario:

Motive: He and Andrew have some sort of business deal known only to them. Maybe Andrew is his silent partner-major invester in something shady enough that only Abby knows about it...and that's because it was discussed the night before. Morse sees the opportunity to 'make a killing'...both literally and metaphorically. Andrew needs to die so Morse can reap all the profits. Or, perhaps more likely, Andrew needs to die so Morse doesn't lose everything....or so Andrew doesn't learn that Morse has absconded with all the investment money.

Opportunity: Uncle John leaves the house with Andrew, immediately doubles back and corners Abby in the guest room. He's in and out in five minutes and then on the way to visit his niece. John is a physically fit man in middle age. A brisk walk to Weybosset Street (or far less to catch public transportation) would be easy. As for the alibi: who really knows how he came to memorize all the identifying information that proved when and where he was. Plus, to paraphrase Neal deGrasse Tyson, eye witness testimony is worthless. Later in the morning he exits from his niece's home, walks briskly back to dispatch Andrew, then walks back to catch his ride to Second Street. He knows the basement door was locked because he checked that out as a possible exit.

Means: He brought the hatchet. He took the hatchet. As for the bloodstains, Morse's arms were long enough to avoid most of the splatter if not wearing a coat. Or perhaps he changed coats with Andrew, the one hanging in the hallway for the one he wore. Then he put his own back on and tucked Andrew's under the pillow. As for Abby, did Uncle John strip down to his skivvies for her slaughter. Did he send her a note to lure her out of the house but it didn't work. Uncle John is an odd guy by everyone's observation; maybe he thought stopping to eat pears and appearing clueless to the crowd would make him appear innocent. He slept in the guest room that night...what better place to hide evidence than the room everyone else is avoiding. Did he mail a letter or a package when the crowd accosted him? I smile at the thought he might've mailed the hatchet to himself!!

For sure there are holes in this scenario, but similar to Lizzie, the big questions center around motive, bloodstains, hatchet. Plus what appears to be a rock solid alibi.

[phineas]

Debbie, I posted Arthur Phillips's documents in the thread Uncle John's Horse Deal regarding a horse deal in which Andrew was the backer. Just prior to the murder the horse came up lame and apparently John needed cash to refund the deal and possibly, Andrew wouldn't give it to him. FWIW, my alternate scenario is not that Morse did the killing but he knew the men who did, and it was the soured horse deal behind it. In my scenario, it is one man, not two like Franz's. Although the pale faced man could have acted as lookout. I think Morse was paranoid they'd come back, hence his obsession with locks. In this scenario, Morse does hear about the murders on his way back to the house and suddenly realizes he's going to need an alibi so he sets about documenting everything. This accounts for his odd pear eating behavior as he lurks in the backyard. He's taking the scene in, composing himself, listening. His yelling Lizzie when he comes in is about determining whether they'd wiped out the household. He's already heard Andrew was murdered - that news got out first well before Mrs. B's death - and I expect Andrew was the headline in typical Victorian patriarchy fashion. I've always felt Morse was somehow a pivot point in this. My two cents.

[debbiediablo]

This is mostly new material to me. I know there was a horse deal, but not much more. Your scenario sounds plausible except why kill Abby but not Lizzie or Bridget. What are the intruders doing upstairs in the guest room unless they knew the house and were looking for Morse, then panicked and killed Abby who had the misfortune to be cleaning, fled the scene and came back later to confront Andrew. How did they get in? Who relocked the house? This is no more improbable than anything else; every theory has unanswered questions. Which is probably why it remains both unsolved and fascinating. Thank you for something new to think about!!! I'll find and read your previous post.

[Curryong]

Mrs Churchill's sister was, she told the police, sitting at a window of the Churchill residence writing a letter between 10am and 10:55 am approximately. That window overlooked the Borden house side door and their kitchen window. She didn't see anyone go past (the houses are close together) or hear any noise.

She joins other neighbours, and onlookers in the street, who didn't see anyone entering the Borden property either.

Uncle John wouldn't have needed Andrew's cash. It was well-known that he had done well for himself out west. The detective later sent out west by Jennings and co. asked about his financial position when they were trying to dig up dirt on him. He had, as he testified at Lizzie's trial, enough to live on without working again in his life.

Morse wasn't in the guest bedroom the night after the murder. He slept up on the third floor, in a sort of half-completed bedroom that was up there. (Bridget didn't sleep at the Borden's. She was given a room with the Millers, who shared the Bowen house.)

[irina]

I didn't know Lizzie refused an inheritance from Uncle John. That he left her something kind of implies he thought she was innocent. I wonder what he really knew.

[Curryong]

I thought he left Emma something and that she refused it. Apparently her lawyer put it in a separate account and when she died the account closed and was absorbed into her estate.

[twinsrwe]

Uncle John did not leave Emma or Lizzie anything, since he felt they were not in need of it.



WILL OF JOHN V. MORSE
(John V. Morse was the uncle of Lizzie Borden, famous as the unconvicted axe murderer of her parents in Fall River MA)

I, John V. Morse, of Hastings, Mills County, Iowa, mindful of the uncertainty of life, do hereby make, publish and declare this my last will and testament.

First..I direct my executor to pay all my just debts and liabilities as soon as can conveniently be done after my decease.

Second..I give and bequeath to W. E. Van Ausdale of Hastings, Iowa, all my personal effects now in his home, except the table silverware.

Third..I give and bequeath to my niece Anna E. Morse, my table silverware.

Fourth..I give and bequeath to my half sister Arabella F. Davidson the sum of Ten Dollars in money.

Fifth..I give and bequeath all my stocks in Mills County, at Fall River, Mass., and all moneys in banks at New Bedford, Mass., or Hastings, Iowa, except so much as may be needed to pay debts or expenses named in clauses one and four above. One third to Anna E. Morse, daughter of my brother, Wm. B. Morse, One third each to Ora F. Morse and Joseph L. Morse, daughter and son of my sister Louisa M. Morse of Fall River, Mass.

Sixth..I direct that the real estate of which I am now possessed in Mills County, Iowa, which is now leased to W. E. VanAusdale shall at the expiration of said lease be sold and the proceeds be divided equally between my nephew and nieces, not above named, except those named Borden, who are not in need of it.

Seventh..I hereby nominate and appoint Geo. E. Shaw of Hastings, Mills County, Iowa, executor of this my last will and testament.

In witness whereof I have hereunto subscribed my name this 20th day of February 1912.

Signed John V. Morse

Signed, published and declared by the testator John V. Morse as and for his last will and testament, in the presence of us, who, at his request and in his presence and in the presence of each other, have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses.
Walter H. Mason, Hastings
Leila M. Mason, Hastings
Eva M. VanAusdale, Hastings

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.n ... 64/mb.ashx

[Curryong]

Twins, usually you are so spot on, that I don't check your info, but, as I stated in another post, I bit the bullet and purchased a copy of 'Lizzie Borden: Past and Present' as a gift to myself, as well as Shelley's book. It's like an encyclopaedia and I am finding it so interesting.

Len Rebello has, on Page 74, an account of the residuaries of John Morse's will. Apparently some of John's relatives weren't happy with their legacies and went to the Probate court to appeal. (Lizzie and Emma did not do that.) Others were given sums by the executors after the main legacies were distributed. Among these were 'Lisbeth and Emma Borden who were entitled to one twelfth of the residuals, that was (according to Rebello) $605.97.

I don't know what happened to Lizzie's portion but Emma refused hers and so it 'was deposited in an account with the clerk of the District Court in Mills County, as directed by the Probate Court'. There it remained until after Emma's death, when her executors applied to have the money ($606.18c) returned to her estate. Which it was.

Uncle John as he aged seems to have mortgaged and sold a lot of his property, loaned people money and given promissory notes to others, including four to his niece, Anna Morse. She can't have been happy, as the probate jury only awarded her part of what the promissory notes were worth!

[twinsrwe]

Curryong, I was going to post the exact same thing from Len Rebello's 'Lizzie Borden: Past and Present', that you did, but you didn't give me time to put my second post together, before you submitted your post. Guess, I should have drafted both of my posts before submitting anything.

In my above post, I was simply showing that it was NOT in Uncle John's will to give 'the girls' anything. It was the Probate Court and executors of John's will who gave Emma and Lizbeth their "entitled" piece of the pie.

It makes me wonder why people even bother to make wills, since the 'unhappy relatives' can simply go to the Probate Court, appeal it, and get what they want, or in Emma's case get what she didn't want. Jeeez!

[Curryong]

Exactly, twinsrwe! I know I am quick off the trigger as poor irena knows to her cost!

[debbiediablo]

Twins, usually you are so spot on, that I don't check your info, but, as I stated in another post, I bit the bullet and purchased a copy of 'Lizzie Borden: Past and Present' as a gift to myself, as well as Shelley's book. It's like an encyclopaedia and I am finding it so interesting.

Len Rebello has, on Page 74, an account of the residuaries of John Morse's will. Apparently some of John's relatives weren't happy with their legacies and went to the Probate court to appeal. (Lizzie and Emma did not do that.) Others were given sums by the executors after the main legacies were distributed. Among these were 'Lisbeth and Emma Borden who were entitled to one twelfth of the residuals, that was (according to Rebello) $605.97.

I don't know what happened to Lizzie's portion but Emma refused hers and so it 'was deposited in an account with the clerk of the District Court in Mills County, as directed by the Probate Court'. There it remained until after Emma's death, when her executors applied to have the money ($606.18c) returned to her estate. Which it was.

Uncle John as he aged seems to have mortgaged and sold a lot of his property, loaned people money and given promissory notes to others, including four to his niece, Anna Morse. She can't have been happy, as the probate jury only awarded her part of what the promissory notes were worth!

My question is was Uncle John's estate actually solvent or did he create a mishmash of lending and borrowing that confused his business associates. Generally speaking, promissory notes are debts that should have been paid first - before the vultures are allowed in to pick. Unless the promissory notes were 'for nothing' or written out after he lost his faculties to reason. Then they'd be viewed as a gift and most likely divided as part of the residual of the estate. Nonetheless, this makes me wonder whether John had as much money as he supposedly did at the time the murders took place. One twelfth of the residuals would've been an estate valued around $7,200 once the bills were paid....not quite the man of wealth we think of in 1892.

[Curryong]

debbie, it seems to be more a case of, as he grew older, he started shedding some of his properties. His will was written out by him in his own special way! The estate came in at approximately 23,225 dollars. (Rebello, Page 71.)

(Same page) John wrote out his will ten days before he died. He left the bulk (property, land, shares) to several nieces and nephews. He was in dispute with his half-sister Arabella Davidson and her husband, whose farm adjoined one of his. He left her ten dollars in his will, which she refused!

Rebello page 71
The will was admitted to probate court. The executor petitioned the court for a construction (interpretation or clarification) of the will, claiming that the will was not specific and ambiguous as to where the costs of the administration of the estate are to be paid from, no residuary clause in the will and there were additional legatees. The court was petitioned by the executor to decide the legatees and their share of the residuary account.'

All in all, John should have had a lawyer draw up his will!

[PossumPie]

So Morse killed two elderly people solely to give two (of his many nieces) money. Well, Morse sure forget them in his later years. He gave money to virtually all of his other kin. Lizabeth and Emma seem not to have anything else to do with him after the murders, and he seems to have nothing else to do with them. Doesn't sound like a man who was so loyally in love with them that he killed--twice-- for them. I think we could pull any of these players out and write a good fictional motive for them.

[PossumPie]

Let's look at the "suspicious" behavior of Morse. Franz thinks that because he went into the room that Andrew was killed in that is suspicious. IF Morse ordered the killings, and IF the killer reported back to him, how or why would he have told Morse exactly which rooms he killed them in? A stranger wouldn't be familiar with the layout of the house, and in the heat of murder, wouldn't have taken time to draw out a map. So he kills Andrew, runs to Morse and says "I killed the old man in the first room straight off the kitchen with the long black couch..." WHY? Who cares what room you killed him in? Morse would have found out soon enough. There is absolutely nothing suspicious about going into the sitting room. Now, the hanging around outside seems suspicious. We just don't have enough info. Hollering out "Lizzie" holds nothing suspicious whatsoever, for those who may have forgotten, Lizzie was Morse's niece...

[debbiediablo]

Let's flip this around and Morse comes into and the house and makes no inquiry as to the only person in the family who might be alive. Now THAT would be subject of discussion! Possum is right when he says nothing can be measured only from one remark or act. As much as I'd like to have seen Bridget's question about needing two sheets further examined by police, I can't condemn her for what most likely was an innocent remark. But it should have been pursued to satisfaction. Similarly, because Bridget gets a pass, if she had screamed for Miss Lizzie everyone would've seen that as a normal albeit hysterical reaction. Of course, what we don't know is whether Morse shouted in fear, "Lizzie?" or in blame, already guessing what she had done, "Lizzie!" I'm inclined to think if Morse were involved it involved a business deal gone sour as per Phineas, perhaps with both he and Andrew on the same side. Maybe the killers were looking for Morse in the guest room and found Abby instead. We cannot absolutely state that the murderer(s) didn't know the house. If this was a business deal gone very bad, the persons involved might've been in that house many times previous.

[irina]

We can always use part of Franz' theory. Let's say a man came to the house to retrieve something Uncle John forgot. Abby asks him to wait outside while she goes to the room. He either insists on going with her or follows behind. If the house is as small as people say it is, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist (which I realise they didn't have in those days and Einstein was just a little guy) to figure out how to get upstairs and find Abby. Heck, Lizzie's door was probably locked and that only leaves Door Number Two, doesn't it?

[Franz]

But the note? when was the note sent to Abby and when did Abby tell Lizzie about it? We must give a possible explanation about the note within an intruder theory (because I firmly believe the note was a crucial part of the crime plan if the killer was an intruder.)

[debbiediablo]

One of the truths about Victorian era houses is the predictability of the layout. The Borden house is no different except for the locks here, there and everywhere. The stairwell most always opens from the front room by the entrance or from the middle of the house. The backstairs, if there is one, opens from the rear door near the kitchen. It wouldn't too difficult to figure out how to get upstairs and therefore to the guest room. How to get past the triple-locked front door or in through the side door without being seen by Lizzie, Bridget or the neighbors would be more difficult. A remote, very remote, possibility is the killer was looking for Andrew's room and assumed it'd be in the front of the house where most of the time it would be. Instead he found Abby cleaning the guest room. Regardless, finding a way through the house might be fairly intuitive; finding a specific person somewhere in the house would be far more challenging.

With regard to the note: why didn't Abby babysit little Abby? Sarah was at the picnic. Did the children go with her or did one stay home?

[Curryong]

This is what 'little Abby' told Robert Sullivan, the author of 'Goodbye Lizzie Borden' (Page 34-35) about that day.

'On the morning of the 4th of August, the day of the murders, my mother' (Sarah Whitehead) 'planning to attend the policemen's annual picnic at Rocky Point, was making arrangements for the care of my younger brother and myself. George was to go to Aunt Lucy's home and I was to spend the day with Aunt Abby at 92 Second St. At the last moment there was a change of plans and I was sent with my brother to Aunt Lucy's house, which was next door to the home of Marshall Hilliard in another section of Fall River.'

Don't know who Aunt Lucy is. She might be from the Whitehead side of the family. 'Little Abby' then continued
'In the late afternoon, while I was helping Aunt Lucy to wash windows, Marshall Hilliard returned home and, standing in the yard, informed Aunt Lucy of Aunt Abby's murder. The shock of the news was so great that Aunt Lucy dropped the window on my hand.'

A few things here. Little Abby was about eight, George about five, at the time of the murders so it's doubtful she would have remembered the details of how the arrangements for her care were made. She was also a very old lady when Sullivan interviewed her. No note is mentioned.

[irina]

I also believe a note or message existed. I'm not sure it was a written note and not sure it absolutely has to be involved in the crimes. I just think Lizzie didn't listen carefully.

I think an intruder could have bypassed Lizzie if she was downstairs in the WC~something she probably wouldn't volunteer for an alibi unless absolutely needed. Well, she could say she was downstairs doing something with laundry or something.

I don't take Little Abby's tale as absolute truth, but likely as a re-telling and remembrance passed through the family for years. I think there may have been some wishful thinking that if someone else~even a little child~had been at 92 Second that day, the tragedy wouldn't have happened. I have a thought that Mrs. W. had heard something of Abby worrying about milk or bread being poisoned and Mrs. W. decided to be safe rather than sorry concerning her child. Out of curiosity where did Mrs. Whitehead live in relation to where Alice Russell lived? Any chance Alice could have shared Lizzie's information of the evening with Mrs. W.? Just asking.

[debbiediablo]

I find the idea that Bridget didn't know where Mrs. W lived to be disingenuous. Sort of like Lizzie didn't know where Bence Pharmacy was located.

[Curryong]

After her father's death in 1878 Alice Russell and her mother lived at no. 96 Second St., next to the Borden family. In 1891 Alice moved just round the corner, in Borden St.

In Warps and Wefts Abby's little journeys to her half-sister's house, which at that time faced Fourth St, is described--
Abby would have gone down (south) Second St to Rodman st, turned left, walked a couple of blocks, took another left turn on Fourth St and walked north to the Gray/Whitehead house.

It sounds like a bit of a journey, especially on hot days. I wonder whether the horse and buggy was used for those trips when the Bordens possessed them, or whether Andrew used the buggy for business.

I don't know whether Alice and Sarah Whitehead knew each other, except perhaps by sight. Lizzie departed from Alice's home at about 9pm on that Wednesday night, probably a bit late for Alice to go venturing out. She probably sat and thought about what Lizzie had said.

I've found out who 'little Abby's' Aunt Lucy was, by the way. She was the daughter of Abby Borden's stepmother by her first marriage. Mrs Jane Gray was living with her married daughter Lucy in Cottage St at the time of the murders and talked to detectives about the Bordens.

[debbiediablo]

Spring Street did not run through past Third Street in 1892. George Whitehead is listed at 45 Fourth Street which would be very close via backyards.

[Curryong]

Yes, that Warps and Wefts page does state (didn't put it into my post) 'Spring St stopped at the east corner of Second and Spring and didn't go through to Third and Fourth st.' It then describes Abby's presumed route to the Whiteheads and later talks about the Whitehead home being repositioned years later.

What we really need, says I scrambling among my books, is a really detailed street map of that part of Fall River in 1892 so we could estimate distances. I suppose Abby could have gone the back way but wouldn't that have involved walking across people's land? There might have been alley-ways, but wouldn't they be mentioned in the Warps and Wefts piece?

PS The Factory of Terror, with spirit-filled tunnels, marked on your map looks very interesting!

[debbiediablo]

Googled Factory of Terror...it's a Halloween-style haunted house. The scale in the lower right corner shows that from the corner of Second and Rodman to the corner of Third and Rodman is about 200 feet. Roughly (very roughly) this would make Abby's walk via Rodman about 3/10 of a mile. If she could've gone from Second Street to Borden to Fourth, the distance would be a bit less than half that long. So either way not very far. The Whitehead house should've been visible from Bridget's room.

EDIT: Having found an 1883 map of the neighborhood and exact location of Mrs. Jane Gray's house which seems further south than the house number would've indicated, it appears the actual distance would be close to equal whether by Rodman or Borden. Either way the distance was about 1200 feet or between 1/5 and 1/4 of a mile or the length of 4 football fields.

Now the disclaimer: I am the most geographically, directionally challenged person in five states. So do your own math...

[Curryong]

I've found a map in Appendix D in Rebello, but I haven't got a scanner, sob.

It's not to scale but it is exactly as Warps and Wefts says. Abby would have walked down to Rodman St from her house then gone along Rodman until she reached Fourth St. She would then have turned up Fourth St until she reached no 45. The trouble is, not drawn to scale so we don't know how long it would have taken her, and behind the Bordens only Dr Chagnon's house and Crowe's Barn are marked, but on other threads drawn maps have shown other houses.

To get Alice Russell on that Thursday Bridget would have run up Second St as far as no 74, then turned right into Borden St, and gone a block and a bit on that street before reaching Alice at no 33.