Who would be your Prime Suspect, excluding Lizzie ?

[Fargo]

Who would be your Prime Suspect for the murders of Andrew and Abby, other than Lizzie ?

[Yooper]

Everyone on the list lacked motive, opportunity, or both. It would have to be someone else, and even then it is hard to imagine motive and opportunity without Lizzie's knowledge and consent.

[Shelley]

Nobody on the list makes any sense as killer to me. As a last resort I would opt for a lunatic on a rampage, or someone who had a deep grudge against Andrew which had festered for a long time-a business associate. Maybe Andrew had recently evicted him, or done him wrong . I tend to think a business connection would not have trounced in the house in broad daylight and took such chances to get at Andrew, and killed Abby just because she was there. A lunatic roaming the neighborhood with bloodlust would also probably have chopped up Lizzie sitting in the kitchen too, and why stop there?- had a swing at Bridget too. I'm sure at the end of the day, none of this was lost on the police. After statements were taken on the day of the murder- a few of the policemen were already forming opinions about Lizzie. Although the men in blue get a bad rap as we point out what they did WRONG- they were still in a great position to observe things we can only imagine now- all these years later. So I am not quick to dismiss the impressions of Harrington and Medley and others who were observant and enjoyed one-on-one with Lizzie that day. Oh, to have been a fly on the wall!

[1bigsteve]

I have to say someone else. None of those listed seem to me like a possible suspect. I have always felt that the killer, if it was not Lizzie, would have to be someone hired by Lizzie or Uncle John. John's alibi is a little too perfect to me. Whoever the killer was he must have had cooperation from Lizzie, whether she hired the killer herself or not. Bridget doesn't even show up on my radar as a suspect.

Either way I slice it Lizzie knew a lot more about the killings than she let on about.

-1bigsteve (o:

[doug65oh]

Nobody on that list really works. The nearest possible suspect based on what we know of the family relations might be old Hiram. There's a difference though between thinking a feller is a lowdown, dirty skunk to be avoided, and harboring sufficient high disregard for aforesaid lowdown, dirty skunk to butcher him like a side of beef in his own abode under the full light of day. Besides, he had no motivation whatever that we know of to wish Mrs. Borden dead no matter what his feelings were toward Andrew Borden.

[snokkums]

I think it could have been just about anybody. Andrew Borden had alot of enemies. He was cheap and didn't pay his employes well. Wasn't there some scuttle butt about some guy coming over to get his pay? I know when Abby went to the doctor he said he wasn't going to pay for the visit.

[twinsrwe]

I have to go with someone else. None of the people you listed had both a motive, and the opportunity. If it was an outsider, then Lizzie had to have known the person, approved of him/her killing both Abby and Andrew, and helped to conceal this person until Andrew arrived and Bridget went up stair to take a nap. If Lizzie hired someone, or it was a business associate, or a lunatic, or Andrew's enemy - then how in the world did he/she leave the house without anyone seeing a person covered with blood? Why would Lizzie agree to go through a trial when the verdict could just as well have gone the other way? The questions are endless....

[FairhavenGuy]

Why isn't William S. Borden on the list?

If it's not Lizzie, it's either a hired killer, possibly with Uncle John's knowledge, or the lunatic serial killer.

The lunatic killer has the problem Shelley mentioned. Andrew and Abby weren't the only people in the house. And there is the space between times of death that would be hard to account for with a murderer who was completely unconnected to the household.

[Harry]

Since we only positively know of two people who were in the house that morning Bridget would have to be on my suspect list.

"I believe everything and I believe nothing. I suspect everyone and I suspect no-one." - Inspector Clouseau, A Shot In The Dark

[Constantine]

I voted for Bridget, but only because, as Harry said, she was the only other person on the scene. I don't really consider her seriously, however. I don't think she had a motive.

[Kat]

Those who voted: Do you know who Mike The Soldier is?
Joseph Carpenter? David Anthony?
If not, just ask, please feel free.

[FairhavenGuy]

David Anthony="Lizzie's boyfriend"

Joe Carpenter=former employee who was out of town at the time

Mike the Soldier=a sleeping drunk


(Joe and Mike I had to look up. . .)

[Kat]

Good for you!
Carpenter embezzled money from Borden & Almy!

[nbcatlover]

I voted for David Anthony because I have found enough circumstantial evidence to make him seem plausible.

However, my research has led me to believe there is another name missing from the list who also fits the story of the man who wanted to rent the store from Andrew for purposes of which Andrew did not approve. Interestingly, he may have ties to David Anthony as well. I just don't have enough to present the circumstantial case yet.

I've been so pressed for time lately, my research is in a holding pattern because I have to do field research now...the local library and internet are not enough. I do want to say how much I have missed reading everyone's comments and thoughts on the Forum. Fairhaven Guy, I'm trying to get to Homecoming on Saturday morning (I'm working that afternoon).

[Fargo]

I was going to put Billy Borden on the list, but with all the discussion we have had about him, I decided to leave him under the someone else catagory.

I put Me and Brownie on the list because there is a somewhat convincing article in Ellery Queen about that Theory. I have been looking for it, but I have misplaced it. I don't recall the issue or the author of the article.

[Kat]

I voted for Bridget because she was there on the premises during both murders. Like it was said of Lizzie, if she had been a man working there in proximity to the victims, there'd probably be a guilty verdict.
I don't necessarily believe that Bridget did the killings tho.

[nbcatlover]

Were the names of the man who delivered the milk, the iceman, and Andrew's worker who was supposed to come back for his pay ever established? I haven't come across them.

I believe Mr. Eddy would have come by the house except for Uncle John's visit the prior day.

[Bobbypoz]

I though that "Brownie" was a political reference to "doin' a heck-of-a-job Brownie..." THAT Brownie! My mistake.

[stargazer]

I just can't imagine how anyone else could have done the deed but Lizzie. Maybe my head is on backwards, but anyone creeping around the area would have been noticed, and delivery men, Uncle John, neighbors could have descended on the house to visit. Well, you might say, he/she wasn't creeping. Lizzie had motive, opportunity, and a whole laundry list of tricks/pat answers up her sleeve. Bridget had opportunity, but no motive. Lizzie wasn't nearly as tired as Bridget was, so she had plenty of adrenaline at her disposal.

[NESpinster]

I voted (if Lizzie is presumed innocent here!) for Uncle John Morse. Not that I really think he did it--he actually seemed to like Andrew Borden (God knows why!), and obviously Borden in turn liked him. He had nothing to gain financially from the murders. And he most certainly had no reason to kill poor Abby.

I picked him for two reasons. The first is that I simply cannot see any of the others having the motive and/or opportunity to commit the murders.

And my second--and stronger--reason is exactly what 1bigsteve mentioned: that unbelievably detailed alibi of Uncle John's. It's the one thing that's always made me just a bit suspicious of him.

Unless you know--ahead of time--that your every move must be accounted for, who on earth delivers such a precise, perfect, moment-by-moment account that covers every possible second when the murders occurred???

I know that a few rare people do have "total recall", but aside from this there is zero evidence that Uncle John was one of them.

IMHO--very, very odd.

[stargazer]

Lizzie certainly went out of her way to avoid Uncle John. She probably saw him leave from the front window (dress closet?) and then came down to breakfast. I found Uncle John's account of his time to be plausible. He seemed calm, and matter of fact at most times.

[Kat]

NESpinster, you think Morse had a very tighly detailed alibi? I do not agree- I think what you may be basing your opinion on is possibly exaggerated. What have you read so far- is it Lincoln or Brown or one like that?
I was wondering still about the Maplecroft parties you mentioned elsewhere? Just letting us know what you are reading may be helpful- some of this sounds like author bias/myth/legend.