timeline

[Angel]

After I read someone's comments on another subject I started thinking about the sequence of events during the time Abby was killed. According to Lizzie, the only possible time she was away from the main part of the house where she might have heard something or seen someone come in, was when she spent five minutes down in the cellar.
Bridget's story is that she saw lizzie in the kitchen, went outside to vomit for 15 minutes, came back in, saw Abby dusting, but did not see Lizzie. She then spent from 9am to 9:30 am cleaning the kitchen with Lizzie nowhere about. She did not see Abby during that time she was in the kitchen. If what Bridget is saying is true, then it is possible that Lizzie was upstairs already when Abby came up. Maybe she was lying in wait for her. If Bridget spent a whole half hour in the kitchen, then Lizzie would have had to murder Abby during that time. When Bridget was finished she was just outside when Lizzie suddenly appeared at the door to talk to her. This would mean that Lizzie would have had a whole half hour to clean up upstairs and possibly change clothing because it would mean Abby had just gone upstairs at nine and was immediately killed.

[snokkums]

My problem with Bridget being in the kitchen cleaning between 9 to 930 is that, if Abby wa killed in and around that time, why didn't she here a thud on the floor? I mean, the house isn't all that big,she would have heard the thump.

[Smudgeman]

My problem with Bridget being in the kitchen cleaning between 9 to 930 is that, if Abby wa killed in and around that time, why didn't she here a thud on the floor? I mean, the house isn't all that big,she would have heard the thump.

Well, if Bridget heard anything while she was doing her chores she probably would have thought it was Abby or Lizzie cleaning or doing chores upstairs. She knew they were in the house so why would a noise from upstairs be alarming?

[Shelley]

Someone in the kitchen cannot hear a thump from the guestroom. Also, the sink room was out in the back hall, it is now closed up so it is harder to imagine. It was a room where now the bathroom is off the kitchen. If Bridget was in the sinkroom, she would, without any doubt, not heard anything. With the door to the sittingroom closed, it is even more not possible.
Somehow, my timeline for Bridget has her going outside from about 9:20-10:15. Lizzie sees Bridget in that back hall when Bridget is coming in from the barn with the pole and brush. Now you have me wondering if Lizzie may have been upstairs before Abby went up, as you say, lying in wait like a spider. She does admit she ran up there for a few minutes. She could have gotten the hatchet on her trip downstairs to the cellar, and concealed it in the pile of laundry when she went up stairs.
Mike, we have all weekend to try out some of these maneuvers with the stop watch!

[Allen]

I have often wondered that in addition to the "thump", for lack of a better word, of Abby's body hitting the floor what the sound of the actual blows being struck must have been like. There must have been some sound from the actual blows being struck. What did it sound like? How loud was it? Abby was struck with 19 hatchet blows through skin and bone after she was laying face down on the floor. I'm sure it wasn't a quiet affair after that initial thump of her hitting the floor. The same applies to Andrew.

[doug65oh]

I’ve wondered that myself a time or two. It’s merely supposition on my part, but it seems to me that after the initial say one or two blows (presumably delivered with sufficient force to breach the cranial cavity) the “impact” sounds might conceivably be absorbed or muffled at least somewhat by the body matter and fluids, with each succeeding blow less audible. Once the bone is initially fractured, the hardest work is done. At least that's my own thought on the matter.

[Shelley]

I tend to agree Doug. I have in mind the sort of awful sound made when one cuts open a cantalope or watermelon-a muffled, hollow, liquid sound. I am afraid this will be one experiment which will NOT be attempted!

[doug65oh]

What would you suppose, Shelly? I'm thinking compared to the sound of Abby hitting the floor if she was say, bent over the bed - or bent over next to the bed - when the hatchet fell. A sharp crack, a somewhat muffled thud as down she went...then softer and softer....

[Shelley]

Well, after a few hundred times trying this out, we all agreed that Abby probably did not crash down on her face from a vertical stance at once like a tree being felled. We know the first cut came over the left ear as she either turned to see what was coming from behind or else she was facing the killer at the first blow. I would bet my last $ that she either staggered or slumped against the bed or dresser, before going to her knees. In fact a multi-step collapse to the floor makes very little noise at all.

[doug65oh]

That's what I was thinking of exactly when I said that - that she most likely went down in stages. And as you've mentioned before if I recall correctly, the accoustics in the house are most favorable to a killer.

[Shelley]

Yes, the heavy wool carpeting masks stealthy footsteps. I have never found any evidence that the front steps were carpeted though, and that is the important bit. Anyone coming up those front stairs is heard immediately if you are in the guestroom. They (the stairs) creak and the footsteps can be heard on the treads. So, that being the case, Abby would have been alerted immediately to the fact that someone was on the stairs and could have looked through the door and seen that person halfway up. There are 13 steps and by 6 or 7 a head is visible. The fact that she did not seem to be alarmed at seeing that head and body coming up those steps (as there were no defense wounds, apparent attempt to leap over the bed , make a get-away) seems to indicate that whoever came up those steps was somebody she was neither surprised or afraid to see.

[doug65oh]

Ayup, I had noticed that some time back after seeing a photo taken - thru the ballustrade I think it was. At some point going up the stairs (quite possibly the same you're referring to) it's not at all difficult to see into the guestroom if the door is open just right. I'll have to hunt that picture up and look at it again. Mary Naugle sent it to me after her visit. It put me very much though in mind of the "There's another one..." comment. You'd not have to go far at all to discover body #2.

[Angel]

We've sorta gotten off the subject. My main focus was on how Lizzie may have been upstairs already waiting for Abby to come up. I'm thinking it makes sense because Abby's intent to put pillow covers on the pillows should have taken just a minute and she would have been downstairs again quickly. There was no time for Lizzie to go down to the cellar, pick up a hatchet, walk upstairs and catch Abby before she was finished.

[Nadzieja]

I don't remember which direction the door opens, but could she have been hidinig behind the door. Also wasn't there a sewing machine in that room? She could have made it look like she was looking for something. I know she had said she came upstairs & sewed something small ( a tape possibly).

[Shelley]

The door opens into the room, yes, she could have been behind it. I like the sewing basket idea- yes she did say she mended or basted a tape on a sleeve. I believe the description of the crime scene mentions a sewing basket in the guest room. She would have then really caught Abby off guard.

I think I mentioned here once before that surprisingly, you can go to the cellar from the guest room, and be back upstairs again in a hair under 58 seconds. I would not have believed it if I had not done it in a long dress! And with bad knees.

[Angel]

The door opens into the room, yes, she could have been behind it. I like the sewing basket idea- yes she did say she mended or basted a tape on a sleeve. I believe the description of the crime scene mentions a sewing basket in the guest room. She would have then really caught Abby off guard.

I think I mentioned here once before that surprisingly, you can go to the cellar from the guest room, and be back upstairs again in a hair under 58 seconds. I would not have believed it if I had not done it in a long dress! And with bad knees.

That may be true, but remember- Bridget said she was in the kitchen during that time cleaning up and shedidn't see Lizzie at all

[nbcatlover]

Just some random thoughts I had after reading your posts.

Casement windows had lead sinkers to hold the ropes inside the casings. Lizzie may have gone to look for one if a rope broke, dropping the lead to the bottom of the casing...or perhaps, looking for a heavier sinker if the window was not balanced properly. Bridget was washing windows, so it would be plausible for a window problem to occur. Lizzie's story may have changed to a screen or a "sinker" for fishing lines to cover the fact that she and Bridget had more interaction that morning than either wanted to admit.

One thought was that they had let a man inside the house who would unscrew the window casing to replace the sinker for them. Perhaps someone known to them? Perhaps someone who had friends with him who also entered the house? Perhaps Lizzie didn't go into the barn alone?

My other thought was about the dust in the barn loft. I read in some newspaper clippings that men from the area searched the barn for the murderer with one story making claims that they pitchforked the hay in the barn.

If the hay was pitchforked, it would raise a lot of dust. How long would it take for the dust to settle, leaving a new coating on the loft floor and obscuring any footprints? There's still the Brownie & me testimony of others in the barn before the police.

[Shelley]

We still have a few original windows in the kitchen and sittingroom and they are not that old rope and counterweight set up.I have seen those though.

[nbcatlover]

Shelley--what kind of set-up is used on the original windows? Do they stay up when they are opened?

Also, has it ever been established who Abby was expecting as a guest after Morse's departure? I believe that was the reason she was fixing up the guest room.

[Shelley]

The original windows have this pinchy thing as you can see, and we have to put a prop in the window to hold up the bottom part. Usually it is a log! They used to be a little stiffer, and would stay up without the prop. (photo below)
The new replacement windows are just the ordinary modern types which will stay up without a prop.


Modern track windows with 2 swivel locks in the middle.

[Nadzieja]

Shouldn't have hit the post button son fast!! I was looking at the bottom picture and it finally hit me, my mother's house had windows like that in her upstairs. It had four panels of glass just like that. The windows were so old, they rattled when the wind blew.

[Shelley]

The glass in the remaining original windows looks original to me. The last two photos above are the sittingroom window Bridget was washing when Andrew came home (from the inside and exterior views). You can see how high up the windows are from the outside- the foundation is quite high.