Lubinsky

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:17 am

Just had a thought. Could it possibly have been Mrs. Churchill that Lubinsky saw on her way over to see what was wrong with Lizzie?

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:50 pm

The women Lubinsky saw in the Borden yard was comming from the back of the house from the barn area towards the side stairs. Mrs. Churchill would have come from the front gate towards the back of the house towards the side stairs. Opposite directions.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:58 pm

Just a thought here....could he have been mixed up as to when he saw her? Perhaps he saw her a day or two before it happened. I know people can sometimes convince themselves they saw something at a certain time, when it was actually a different day it really happened.

I've done that myself. Been absolutely POSITIVE of something, only to have it turn out I was mistaken.

eprattlbg · Post by **eprattlbg** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:53 pm

[quote="SallyG @ Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:58 pm"]Just a thought here....could he have been mixed up as to when he saw her? Perhaps he saw her a day or two before it happened. I know people can sometimes convince themselves they saw something at a certain time, when it was actually a different day it really happened.

I'm new at this, but I have been reading a bunch. I think that Lubinsky knew what day it was because he was late leaving the stable where he picked up his wagon. I *THINK* the man at the stable also testified to this also.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:39 am

hmmm...I think you are right. I'll have to go back and re-read his testimony.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:27 am

Most don't realize that Lubinsky was only 16-1/2 years old at the time of the tragedy. He was the same age as the "me" in "Brownie and me", Thomas Barlow. I've not been able to find the age of "Brownie", Everett Brown but it was probably something similar.

Lubinsky's youthful age, and his inability to speak English well, helps account for his confusing trial testimony.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:04 pm

Thanks for the new info, Harry. I for one did not know that Lubinsky was so young! I always pictured him as a gentleman in his late 30s to mid 40s. Its interesting how, despite the young age, "Me and Brownie's" testimony is lent more credence than Lubinsky's. Especially considering that one of the boys of the "Me and Brownie" team was a ne'er-do-well and Lubinsky appears to be an upstanding citizen at work on his job.

I seem to recall that in the past you posted a news article or such about one of the boys stealing shoes?

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:14 pm

Susan @ Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:04 pm wrote:Thanks for the new info, Harry. I for one did not know that Lubinsky was so young! I always pictured him as a gentleman in his late 30s to mid 40s. Its interesting how, despite the young age, "Me and Brownie's" testimony is lent more credence than Lubinsky's. Especially considering that one of the boys of the "Me and Brownie" team was a ne'er-do-well and Lubinsky appears to be an upstanding citizen at work on his job.

I seem to recall that in the past you posted a news article or such about one of the boys stealing shoes?

Yes, that story was in Rebello, p88, and he cites the FR Weekly News as the source:

"... Four months after the Borden trial Thomas Barlow and several friends were arrested on Sunday, October 8, 1893, for breaking and entering into Daniel F. Sullivan's Boots and Shoes at 40 South Main at 11 p. m. When confronted by the police at the store they were wearing shoes which had been stolen earlier from Sears and Hall Boots and Shoes at 13 Granite Block. ..."

I read somewhere Brown and Barlow being described as "candidates for the penitentiary". While waiting to give their testimony at the court house it was said they "amused" the reporters telling them stories of how the police threatened them, all the time smoking cigarettes. They also gave the police a hard time on the ride over to New Bedford.

I also seem to remember that one of them (Brown?) turned out well in later years. Anyone remember more?

I could only find one reference to the expression "me and Brownie" in the trial (page 1442).

"Q. What did you do then?
A. We went in the side gate.
Q. You say "we." Who?
A. Me and Brownie."

Grace · Post by **Grace** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:17 pm

Harry @ Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:27 am wrote:Most don't realize that Lubinsky was only 16-1/2 years old at the time of the tragedy. He was the same age as the "me" in "Brownie and me", Thomas Barlow. I've not been able to find the age of "Brownie", Everett Brown but it was probably something similar.

Lubinsky's youthful age, and his inability to speak English well, helps account for his confusing trial testimony.

There is so much that is contradicted in different peoples account of many facts in this whole case. I have seen the boys (Brownie & me) ages reported as anywhere between 10-12 to 16. It is so odd to read the many different accounts that can't seem to agree. Even seemingly insignificant facts are often heatedly debated between different sources. It boggles the mind sometimes.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:43 pm

I am also one that was under the impression that Lubinsky was an older man in his late 30's or early 40's......and that "Brownie and me" were alot younger like 10-12. Guess I got that impression from Radin.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:39 pm

Per Len Rebello, p88: "... Hyman Lubinsky was born in Russia in January, 1876. His family immigrated to the United States in 1889. ..."

There is some discrepancy in the age. His death certificate in 1923 says he was 49 which would have made him born in 1874, and thus 18 at the time of the tragedy. He died of T.B.

Another Borden case contradiction to resolve.

Didn't these people realize we would want to know all these little details 116 years later?