Kat-that's interesting that you say there were five suspected weapons. I was just reviewing Abby's autopsy & photos and was surprised upon closer inspection to find those square-ish peg like dents in the back of her head. Their are several of them and they baffle me. Also the fact that the majority of the cuts seem to be two inches or shorter in length.
This leads me to believe that their could even be two murder weapons used.
I can't find a list of those weapons, do you know where on the site I can find it?
Thank you so much!
Borden House and Excavations
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Kat
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Kat
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Here is the claw-head hatchet testimony- as considered the weapon- in the Preliminary Hearing:
Dr. Dolan
Preliminary Hearing
148
Q. You went down cellar, and you had some instruments handed to you by an officer, after you had washed your hands?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. How many of them?
A. I think I handled two, I would not say positively.
Q. Two what?
A. Two instruments.
Q. What were they?
A. One was a hatchet, and the other an ax.
Q. The hatchet was this hatchet with the blade four or five inches long, with the head on it which had a claw?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Now, in your opinion, did not that hatchet with the claw on it cause the fracture of the skull upon the left side of Mr. Borden’s head?
A. Do you mean the head of it, or the instrument itself?
Q. I said the head, with that claw hammer on it, whether in your opinion that was not the instrument that caused the fracture of the skull over the left ear of Mr. Borden’s head?
A. I think it could.
Q. Could an ax?
A. Yes Sir, an ax head yes sir.
Q. Could a stone?
A. I do not think so.
Q. Why?
A. Because it was too regular in its outline.
Q. What was too regular?
A. The fracture.
Q. What was the outline of the fracture?
A. Almost square; it was not exactly square; I should think it would be about four inches long, and two inches wide.
Q. Rectangular in shape?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. That ax or hatchet has gone to Prof. Wood, has it not?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Do you know where it is now?
A. I have not received it back from him.
Page 149
(Mr. Knowlton) We will have it here Friday or Saturday.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Harrington
Prelim
397
Q. Was that claw headed hatchet we had here this morning the one you found on the chopping block?
A. I cannot say about the one I found; it resembled it.
Q. It looks like the hatchet you found on the chopping block in the afternoon?
A. Yes.
Page 398
Q. About the same size and weight?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did it have a claw end?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Is that the only claw end hatchet that you saw around the house?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did you do with it?
A. I took it from where I found it, and brought it back into the laundry, as you call it, the wash room. Marshal Fleet was there, he suggested---- He took the hatchet and we went into a room to the north of that, which contained some boxes and barrels, and he put it on a scaffold at the east of the door as you go in, behind some boxes.
Q. That is in the north east corner of the room that opens out of the laundry?
A. That is right.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Wood
Prelim
373
Q. Did you testimony include the two axes? If it did not, tell us about them. You found nothing on the two axes?
A. Nothing on the two axes.
Q. There was something on the hatchet that had been supposed to be blood, or that was thought to be?
A. Yes Sir. Near the sharp edge of the hatchet on both sides, there was an accumulation of material which looked as though it might be blood, and which under the microscope was seen to be chiefly wood and cotton fiber. There was quite a number of cotton fibres in this patch. There was a little stain that looked as though it might have been from a spatter of blood. It was a long narrow stain on the beveled edge of the hatchet, on the left hand side, about one inch from the upper corner on the blade, on the head of the hatchet, at the sharp edge, and it was evidently made by moisture. It was a spatter of some kind, perhaps a spatter of water, where rust had accumulated there. It was iron rust, and not blood; it looked like blood though. There was another spot on the side of the head of the hatchet very similar to a blood stain. In fact iron rust does resemble blood very much, and it is almost impossible, sometimes, for me to distinguish between the two.
Q. Without a scientific examination?
A. Without testing, yes sir. There were also several stains on the handle, which I examined, with negative result.
Q. What were they; what did they turn out to be?
A. On the handle of the hatchet, and on the handle of the axes, there were some reddish stains, that looked very much like blood, which was either reddish tinted varnish--- There was a pigment on them, which after performing the blood test, appeared to be some mineral pigment that resembled blood.
Q. You only examined one hatchet?
A. That is all.
Q. Have you that hatchet here?
Page 374
A. I have.
Q. Please produce it.
A. I did not bring it here for this purpose; I brought it for another purpose. (Produces it.)
Q. That is the one you have been talking about?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. The other hatchet you have not seen?
A. No Sir.
Q. It has not been put in your hand?
A. No Sir.
Dr. Dolan
Preliminary Hearing
148
Q. You went down cellar, and you had some instruments handed to you by an officer, after you had washed your hands?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. How many of them?
A. I think I handled two, I would not say positively.
Q. Two what?
A. Two instruments.
Q. What were they?
A. One was a hatchet, and the other an ax.
Q. The hatchet was this hatchet with the blade four or five inches long, with the head on it which had a claw?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Now, in your opinion, did not that hatchet with the claw on it cause the fracture of the skull upon the left side of Mr. Borden’s head?
A. Do you mean the head of it, or the instrument itself?
Q. I said the head, with that claw hammer on it, whether in your opinion that was not the instrument that caused the fracture of the skull over the left ear of Mr. Borden’s head?
A. I think it could.
Q. Could an ax?
A. Yes Sir, an ax head yes sir.
Q. Could a stone?
A. I do not think so.
Q. Why?
A. Because it was too regular in its outline.
Q. What was too regular?
A. The fracture.
Q. What was the outline of the fracture?
A. Almost square; it was not exactly square; I should think it would be about four inches long, and two inches wide.
Q. Rectangular in shape?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. That ax or hatchet has gone to Prof. Wood, has it not?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Do you know where it is now?
A. I have not received it back from him.
Page 149
(Mr. Knowlton) We will have it here Friday or Saturday.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Harrington
Prelim
397
Q. Was that claw headed hatchet we had here this morning the one you found on the chopping block?
A. I cannot say about the one I found; it resembled it.
Q. It looks like the hatchet you found on the chopping block in the afternoon?
A. Yes.
Page 398
Q. About the same size and weight?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did it have a claw end?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Is that the only claw end hatchet that you saw around the house?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did you do with it?
A. I took it from where I found it, and brought it back into the laundry, as you call it, the wash room. Marshal Fleet was there, he suggested---- He took the hatchet and we went into a room to the north of that, which contained some boxes and barrels, and he put it on a scaffold at the east of the door as you go in, behind some boxes.
Q. That is in the north east corner of the room that opens out of the laundry?
A. That is right.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Wood
Prelim
373
Q. Did you testimony include the two axes? If it did not, tell us about them. You found nothing on the two axes?
A. Nothing on the two axes.
Q. There was something on the hatchet that had been supposed to be blood, or that was thought to be?
A. Yes Sir. Near the sharp edge of the hatchet on both sides, there was an accumulation of material which looked as though it might be blood, and which under the microscope was seen to be chiefly wood and cotton fiber. There was quite a number of cotton fibres in this patch. There was a little stain that looked as though it might have been from a spatter of blood. It was a long narrow stain on the beveled edge of the hatchet, on the left hand side, about one inch from the upper corner on the blade, on the head of the hatchet, at the sharp edge, and it was evidently made by moisture. It was a spatter of some kind, perhaps a spatter of water, where rust had accumulated there. It was iron rust, and not blood; it looked like blood though. There was another spot on the side of the head of the hatchet very similar to a blood stain. In fact iron rust does resemble blood very much, and it is almost impossible, sometimes, for me to distinguish between the two.
Q. Without a scientific examination?
A. Without testing, yes sir. There were also several stains on the handle, which I examined, with negative result.
Q. What were they; what did they turn out to be?
A. On the handle of the hatchet, and on the handle of the axes, there were some reddish stains, that looked very much like blood, which was either reddish tinted varnish--- There was a pigment on them, which after performing the blood test, appeared to be some mineral pigment that resembled blood.
Q. You only examined one hatchet?
A. That is all.
Q. Have you that hatchet here?
Page 374
A. I have.
Q. Please produce it.
A. I did not bring it here for this purpose; I brought it for another purpose. (Produces it.)
Q. That is the one you have been talking about?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. The other hatchet you have not seen?
A. No Sir.
Q. It has not been put in your hand?
A. No Sir.
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cfking
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Kat
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cfking
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Kat-Do you know where the head-scarf they use came from or how it was figured into the Investigative Special?
I would love to know where those other items went!!
Isnt' it true that the Attorney's for Lizzie still have lots of case information that they still haven't released to this day? I've heard that as well. But, like many things Lizzie-I know there is a great deal of mis-information.
I don't know what would compell them to keep what they have a secret after over a hundred years. I would think client-privledge would be null by now!
I would love to know where those other items went!!
Isnt' it true that the Attorney's for Lizzie still have lots of case information that they still haven't released to this day? I've heard that as well. But, like many things Lizzie-I know there is a great deal of mis-information.
I don't know what would compell them to keep what they have a secret after over a hundred years. I would think client-privledge would be null by now!
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Kat
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Once I saw the video Stef and I were in Lizzie Borden Had An Ax- I was consumed with finding out more about the *handkerchief*. I wrote about my research and findings in the Hatchet issue Vol 5 No 3, Aug/Sept 2008 "On the Trail of the Bloody Handkerchief."
Do you get the magazine?
Also, the Producer, Tim Evans, wrote about the making of the video in The Hatchet Vol 1 Issue 5, Oct/Nov 2004, "A TV Producer Has an Ax: A look behind the scenes of the Discovery Channel's Lizzie Borden special."
~ ~ ~ ~
What evidence that was preserved was stored in "The Hip-bath Collection" by Lawyer Jennings.
partial quote from:
PROCEEDINGS
The Legend 100 Years After the Crime--
A Conference on the Lizzie Borden Case
Bristol Community College, Fall River, MA
Aug. 3-5, 1992
The Hip-Bath Collection, Barbara Ashton, p211
"What Andrew Jennings decided to sequester may turn out to be as important as what he decided to reveal."
[This collection was, in part, donated to the FRHS, in 1968, with some items requested returned to the (Waring) family.
Ms. Ashton, author, had a look and made some notes:]
"Contents Of Collection
1. Photographs: Yard, hall, entrance hall, north side of house, Second street looking north and south, backyard between house and barn, Mrs. Churchill's front steps. guest chamber, Abby, sitting room, south side of house and south yard, Borden house (enlarged), side views of pool of blood, Mrs. Borden with feet showing, Mrs. Borden's matted switch, Andrew Borden on the horsehair couch, Andrew naked on the floor, skulls--front with hatchet marks, Mrs. Borden with huge hole in side of head, courthouse. (213)
2. Hatchet and Hood: This is the one that fit the wound and was found with a broken handle in the Borden cellar. It was never proved to be the murder weapon...
3. Tags from Trial Exhibits: They read, Stomach of Mrs. Andrew J. Borden; Stomach of Mr. Andrew J. Borden; Dried Blood, Mrs. A.J. Borden.
4. Hair Switch and Bloody Handkerchief: Worn by Mrs. Borden at the time of the murders.
5. Pillow shams and Bedspread: Taken from the bed Mrs. Borden was making when she was murdered.
6. Newspaper Clippings of the Case: In 3 scrapbooks, 2 large, i small.
7. Stenographer's Minutes of the Preliminary Trial: Five books: Edward S. Wood, Abram G. Hart, Lizzie A. Borden (sic??) Bridget Sullivan, Dr. Wiiiam A. Dolan. They are the only known copies of these minutes.
8. Blueprints of Floorplans of Borden House: Cellar, first. floor, second. floor.
9. Boston Globe: Day-to-Day Record.
10. Boston Herald: Account of the trial, brown and brittle.
11. Hair In Envelopes: Snips of hair from Mr. and Mrs. Borden.
12. Red Leather Notebooks: There were two, a thick one and a thin one. The thick one contains newspaper clippings of the case from August 4, 1892, to August 11, 1892. The thin one contains Andrew Jennings handwritten notes gathered on Lizzie's behalf." (213-4)
. . .
Do you get the magazine?
Also, the Producer, Tim Evans, wrote about the making of the video in The Hatchet Vol 1 Issue 5, Oct/Nov 2004, "A TV Producer Has an Ax: A look behind the scenes of the Discovery Channel's Lizzie Borden special."
~ ~ ~ ~
What evidence that was preserved was stored in "The Hip-bath Collection" by Lawyer Jennings.
partial quote from:
PROCEEDINGS
The Legend 100 Years After the Crime--
A Conference on the Lizzie Borden Case
Bristol Community College, Fall River, MA
Aug. 3-5, 1992
The Hip-Bath Collection, Barbara Ashton, p211
"What Andrew Jennings decided to sequester may turn out to be as important as what he decided to reveal."
[This collection was, in part, donated to the FRHS, in 1968, with some items requested returned to the (Waring) family.
Ms. Ashton, author, had a look and made some notes:]
"Contents Of Collection
1. Photographs: Yard, hall, entrance hall, north side of house, Second street looking north and south, backyard between house and barn, Mrs. Churchill's front steps. guest chamber, Abby, sitting room, south side of house and south yard, Borden house (enlarged), side views of pool of blood, Mrs. Borden with feet showing, Mrs. Borden's matted switch, Andrew Borden on the horsehair couch, Andrew naked on the floor, skulls--front with hatchet marks, Mrs. Borden with huge hole in side of head, courthouse. (213)
2. Hatchet and Hood: This is the one that fit the wound and was found with a broken handle in the Borden cellar. It was never proved to be the murder weapon...
3. Tags from Trial Exhibits: They read, Stomach of Mrs. Andrew J. Borden; Stomach of Mr. Andrew J. Borden; Dried Blood, Mrs. A.J. Borden.
4. Hair Switch and Bloody Handkerchief: Worn by Mrs. Borden at the time of the murders.
5. Pillow shams and Bedspread: Taken from the bed Mrs. Borden was making when she was murdered.
6. Newspaper Clippings of the Case: In 3 scrapbooks, 2 large, i small.
7. Stenographer's Minutes of the Preliminary Trial: Five books: Edward S. Wood, Abram G. Hart, Lizzie A. Borden (sic??) Bridget Sullivan, Dr. Wiiiam A. Dolan. They are the only known copies of these minutes.
8. Blueprints of Floorplans of Borden House: Cellar, first. floor, second. floor.
9. Boston Globe: Day-to-Day Record.
10. Boston Herald: Account of the trial, brown and brittle.
11. Hair In Envelopes: Snips of hair from Mr. and Mrs. Borden.
12. Red Leather Notebooks: There were two, a thick one and a thin one. The thick one contains newspaper clippings of the case from August 4, 1892, to August 11, 1892. The thin one contains Andrew Jennings handwritten notes gathered on Lizzie's behalf." (213-4)
. . .