HELD by a STICK

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:57 pm

HELD BY A STICK AND ROTTING AWAY AND STILL ASKING $650,000.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:12 am

At least he's reduced the price by $100,000 in the past 5 years...

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:24 am

Ha! That's true, Tina-Kate.

Ohhhh ... this is just terrible. It looks like the rusticles on the Titanic.

Thanks for posting the photo, mb. This hurts to look at.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:37 am

YES* And it may be even less than that. We don't know because he is so cheap that he will not hire a realtor, and instead is doing a miserable job trying to sell it himself.

Even if it sells for 600,000, that is 24,000 to 30,000 in realtor fees. He figures he can save that.

So, in the end he is just playing with the public's head. If he was serious in selling he would have a sign out there everyday or had a realtor sell it for him.

Perhaps if he learns how to spell the word "License" perhaps he will have a chance.

Fall river waz juss lablled as haven da 2nd highesst hi scool dropp out rate n da state. I wonda Y. If you do, read the sien beloow.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:42 pm

Too bad we can't hear what Lizzie would say about the matter. You know how I feel about neat old houses.

SarahJay · Post by **SarahJay** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:58 pm

when i saw Maplecroft in the flesh i was soooo disappointed. Not at all the dream house i imagined Lizzie and Emma or me to live in.
I did see good 'ole whats-his-name when i was sneaking a photo of the outside of the house last year. He was standing in the front window looking completely creepy. which suited the exterior.

But i definatley think the owner is playing with your mind. The owner teases you with the idea that the house is for sale, then when you want to get closer to the house, he puts the sale price up and takes it from your reach. Then it's not for sale anymore. Meanwhile the house is decaying. Then he lets you come inside (fist floor only!!) and take a look. Then its for sale again.
Just like my first boyfriend.

I would love someone from here to make him an offer - i have a suspicion he actually wouldn't sell it.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:04 am

I think he would sell. I think he would if he got the right price. He would be making a fortune of a profit at $685,000.

Thanks for the photo of the sign, mb. Geez ...

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:30 pm

Instead of carrot on a stick, it's "house on a stick."
It is painful to see the old buildings crumble. You are probably all familiar with the feeling when you return to a childhood amusement park, and it's changed a lot. Time marches on, and sometimes it gallops like a hyper carousel horse.

SarahJay · Post by **SarahJay** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:15 pm

just out of interest, what is heritage housing law like in Fall River and surrounding areas?
I know in Melbourne and in particularly historical suburbs of Melbourne, that buildings and houses are increasingly becoming subject to the heritage listings. So for example, you can renovate your home/building but you cannot change the front of the house (unless it's to restore it to its original condition or you're going to keep the original facade but 'tastefully modernise' the front so it's a mixture of both).
Of course big developers seem to be able to get around some of these guidelines (surprise surprise) but it seems such a shame that a place like Fall River that does have many beautifully historical homes can start bulldozing them down instead of restoration.

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:13 pm

The most strict form of historical preservation in Massachusetts is, I'm pretty sure, a local Historical District set up under Chapter 40B (That number might be wrong) of the Mass General Laws.

In that case, any exterior alteration or addition, including siding, painting, replacement windows, etc. is subject to review by the local Historic District Committee, which is made up of members specified by the law--a member of the historical society, a resident of the district, an approved preservation architect, etc.

The most strict local districts are allowed to specify historical siding materials, appropriate windows, harmonious design of an addition, even paint colors. State law does allow the district to be established with more lenient regulations, too.

For example artificial siding can be allowed if it matches the general design and scale of the original or vinyl replacement windows could be allowed if they are similar in design to the historical period of the house.

After the District Committee hands down its ruling, the home owner can appeal the decision to the state on various grounds, one of which is undo financial hardship.

A District Committee cannot stop a homeowner from building an addition to the house. They can specify design standards and must grant approval of the final plans before construction can begin.

A District Committee cannot stop a homeowner from letting his house fall into disrepair. The Committee only reviews plans for alterations.

A District Committee also cannot stop the demolition of a historical house or stop the construction of a brand new house within the district.

I was the chairman of a Historic Distric Study Committee for a neighborhood in Fairhaven 15 years ago. A majority of property owners were opposed to the formation of a district, even with the least stringent allowed by the law, so the Committee removed the article from the Annual Town Meeting. Historic Districts have failed three times in Fairhaven in the last 25 or 30 years.

My own feelings on historical districts have changed since the time when I served on that committee. I believe that change and evolution are acceptable concepts and that "freezing" a house's look in one particular time period is not something that should be forced on a property owner who bought the property when it was not under restrictions.

I also might add that I would hate to live next door to mbhenty. To have a neighbor of mine not only constantly peering into my yard and watching my every move, but also posting photgraphs on the internet and publicly ridiculing me online would be behavior that I could not tolerate. The flash photos taken at night are particularly bothersome.

To me it really borders on invasion of privacy.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:33 pm

The correct MGL Chapter is 40C, actually.

The Massachusetts General Laws may be searched via http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/index.htm

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:52 pm

So, taking photos out my window and from my property is an invasion of privacy? Not sure what world you live in.

I am not taking pictures of people. Just cars, yards and buildings.

Yes, if you lived next door to me and you had a hand in placing a business directly across the street from me, you would have a problem with me.

Yes, if you tried building a house 10 feet from my windows and blocking out my sunlight, you would have a problem with me.

If you tried to build a two story building 6 feet from my back yard, you would have a problem with me.

You don't sell a house, split the property in two, sell it all, leave with the profits and destroy the neighborhood. At least not without a fight from me.

What do I care if they vinyl the entire city. The fact that my values are higher than yours when it comes to historical property is unfortunate. But give someone a cushy job with the city and watch all his historical values go down the toilet.

You are right. People should not be forced to restore or keep their building a certain way. I wold never stop someone from doing what they want with their building. I never said that it should be that way. But try to build a house on a sub-standard lot and 5 to 8 feet from my windows and you have just poked a pit bull.

Fortunately you don't live near me, goodie for you, or you would have to tolerate it. Taking fash pictures in the middle of the street, of a car NOT a building, is my right. Next thing you are going to tell me is I can't flash my high beams on my car at night cause I will disturb your privacy.

Boy, I would hate to be you.

Hey, perhaps you can come over and give dube some pointers on how to vinyl side Maplecorft.

Give me a break. You have no idea what I am up against here, or do you care. None of you bureaucrats do. So count you lucky stars you don't live next door to me.

SarahJay · Post by **SarahJay** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:09 am

Thanks for the info Fairhaven Guy - very interesting to know what happens on the other side of the world.

joe1956 · Post by **joe1956** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:29 am

I thought it was very kind of Mr. Dube to give us a tour of the first floor of Maplecroft and unlimited access to the yard on August 4th. We just showed up without warning. He was working in the yard. He was very generous to just drop everything, and give us an impromptu tour. About 15 people walked through his house and all over his yard. We were in costume so it was a hoot! I am not sure what I would do if I were working in my yard , and suddenly two vehicles of people showed up asking to come in. I thought Mr. Dube was great about the whole thing. Thank you again Mr Dube.

Post by **Adminlizzieborden** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:20 am

It seems that this topic draws all sorts of passions from the members. Some have direct experiences, some have theoretical understandings of things. Some seem personally involved, while others are merely offering up observations and opinions.

The Forum must remain civil and cordial. Please refrain from personally attacking anyone here.

Since the question at hand is so full of emotion, I think it would be a good idea for all of us to step back and consider that people have different experiences and different opinions based on those experiences.

We will not take away from mbhenty's fight. Or his spirited battle with his neighbor. His experiences are not our experiences. And he is entitled to his opinions.

We also will not take away from those of you who have had positive experiences with mbhenty's neighbor. It is good that you were treated the way you were.

That said, let us enjoy the discussion, and being kept up on the goings on of French Street, as it bears on the subject of this forum. However, we should always remember that people never change their opinions unless personally affected. And this is the way of the world.

I may make further adjustments to this thread, further thoughts on how we should proceed, and may even add my two cents worth when I see more flareups. This is a fluid topic, so play fair, be kind, and cite your sources

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:59 pm

AYE, AYE, CAPTIAN....................

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:45 pm

HEY CAPTAIN sorry I could not stay for the entire lecture the other day. I had an emergency and had to leave.

Though the two girls did an excellent job reading, I always felt it more interesting when the actual author(s) do the reading of their own material.

Also, I am not crazy about readings that read right through, never deviating from the text.

This is where the author usually makes a big difference by interrupting his own reading to add a vital nugget of information that may have been left out or some tidbit of how they discovered details, facts, or direction.

Though, they hired the right people. They sure could read.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:13 am

Yes Captain: I have been to several lectures of yours. The auditorium classroom where it was held, with its slopping, multi-level two story seating area, similar to a movie theater, was one of the best environment for giving a talk.

Please do not be insulted by this, but you remind me of RICHARD MULLIGAN in the movie TEACHERS. Remember the scene when he is teaching the class and he is dressed in character, that of George Washington, and leading his class across the delaware, using the desks as a boat etc. That was a funny scene.

But:

What I'm getting at is that you involve the audience, interact and acknowledge your listeners. The talk is never dull, your delivery always honest and engaging, and your visual display clever.

The historical society knew what they were doing when they chose the first speaker to kick off their lecture series. You hit a home run and hit the ball through the dome ceiling.

Going to be a tuff act to follow.

Really !

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:16 am

Flattery will get you everywhere.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:44 am

That's so true, mb. Stef's talks are brilliant. It looks like she really enjoys lecturing, as her zeal comes across and that zeal is caught by the audience.

I think she could take any subject, that she knew well, and make a great talk with it.

I think part of it may be that she doesn't talk over anyone's head. She appears as "one of us". The time flies when she lectures, and I hate to see it end. I only wish I could make it to more of her lectures.

I wonder if her lectures could be taped and put on Mondo Lizzie? That would be great!

Please donate to the Edwin Porter grave marker fund. You can give at the home page of 'The Hatchet'.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:58 pm

Yes, as many already know, Victorian and colonial architecture is a passion of mine.

Though I am ardent about most of my interests and and very specific about old wood buildings, I do not believe government should tell someone what color or additions to add to their building, or what condition they should keep it. But, but, but..........as a student of history and old buildings I am fervent and somewhat animated and emotional when defending, denouncing and talking about such projects.

I find it a shame that a certain kind of person owns such a valuable property and deviates from its historical merits.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proof of this is the William F. Hooper House on the East side of my property.

Hopper was a Cotton Broker and joint owner of Hooper and Buffington Brokers. This house fits the description "Mansion" to a tee. I have been inside many times and the woodwork is just majestic, but gone. This was once a ONE FAMILY home and now contains SIX APARTMENTS.

It is a shame and an historical crime that the owner of that building keeps it in the condition he has. But that is his business. As long as he does not infringe on my pursuit of happiness and creep closer to my property and plays by the rules the city has on it's ordinance, then what is happening with that building is his business.

But, I will exercise my right to voice myself about it.

Apparently someone else is after him. The city is dragging him into court and issuing deadlines for repairs. He has been busy working on it and making it presentable. Sadly, in doing so he is tearing away some marvelous trim, corbels, etc. Sad. But, what can one do? Nothing but complain.

Below is a series of before and afters along with some close ups and details of the marvelous trim, windows, fences etc that were on this building over 100 years ago:

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:04 pm

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:23 pm

YES, along the same Mansard Design, the Hooper house, build around the same period, is very similar to the Fall River Historical Society.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:54 pm

I love the Mansard roof. It was made popular in France in the middle 1600s, by some guy named Mansard of course. Not sure what his first name was.

Two Hundred years later the Mansard Roof became popular in Victorian America, used in the Second Empire Motif.

Most were done on large buildings and homes. Many of them stone or brick similar to the FRHS.

But, it was used on small homes.

One wonderful modest little Mansard roof home was the Whitely House on French Street, a couple of blocks down from Maplecroft. The Whitely House was moved to French Street from Prospect when the hospital in f.r. expanded.

Today they don't move them, the demolish them. There is no accounting or respect for the architectural past in fall river.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:03 pm

Yes, one more example. This is the Borden school up the street from 92 Second St. Mansard. Of course, most of these Second Empire buildings are very dated when they were popular in the middle and later 1800s.

Lesson over>

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:13 pm

Yes, one more PLEASE!

The old school as it looked close to the time it was built.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:49 pm

I liked the Psycho house, too. Thanks for posting images of the mansard roof. The little details make me swoon ! Call me strange, but I am the same with almost everything from the Past. If it has quality, and xtras, I like to stare.

Rounded windows, window seats, secret staircases, dumb waiters, frills. I love it ! When I see modern buildings hastily thrown up over night, I am even more enamored of such images here ! Nothing built shoddily in my grandfathers day. :)

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:04 pm

I am happy you liked the photos. Here are a couple of more Mansard Second Empire homes in Fall River. Some are nice. Many have been destroyed. Such is the Rev. Buck's place on Prospect Street. Notice the Mansard roof. The white house with the VINYL

Below that is the impressive Franklin Almy House. Though Lizzie had lots of money, many of her contemporaries had bank accounts and homes that just blew her away. The gray house you see has 6 apartments. I considered buying it when I purchased my home. But it was to big for me. This home has an address on Rock Street and is just two blocks away from Maplecroft. Mr. Almy was the publisher of the FALL RIVER DAILY NEWS.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:12 pm

Yes, some more Mansard homes. The yellow house is a block away from Maplecroft. It was featured in the 1883 Fall River Atlas. Known as the Theodore Borden house, it is just around the corner from Maplecroft, almost a stones throw on Highland Ave.

Not sure of the history of the blue Mansard home, but it is occupied by the Catholic church and sits just a block/half from Maplecroft and is a twin to the Theodore Borden house and the Hooper house. Both are nicely kept.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:16 pm

Yes, and lastly a couple of more Second Empire Mansards......just for the heck of it. Most are a couple of blocks from Maplecroft. Lizzie's Mansard neighbors you can say..

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:55 am

Wonderful!

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:17 pm

I have just been drooling over a picture of a house for sale as noted in the October COUNTRY LIVING magazine, which I bought for its Halloween content, and it, too, is a Second Empire mansard-roofed building. How timely! Now I know EXACTLY what to pray for every night!

We live in the historical district of Jackson Heights, Queens, and near us there is a block of five-floor mansarded apartment buildings. So French! of course, I love the Addams House and the Bates House, too!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:52 pm

Yes Bob: below you will find old norman and his home. It is true, and I never realized it, that most haunted movie houses have Mansard roofs.

The wonderful Brick Mansard house below belong to LIZZIE BORDEN'S boyfriend. Well..........not really. But this is the David Anthony House.

The father's, not the son. Lizzie's possible, not proven, and never happened, father-in-law.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:59 pm

Yes, this is probably one of my favorite Mansards. It is located on Locust Street, two blocks up from the old Durfee High School and 7 or 8 blocks from Maplecroft.

It was once a B&B, and I think now there are condos there.

The photo was taken by the city, but it has a spooky quality to it.

The house is painted in a drab, drab, and did I say, Drab color, which works very well in making it look period.

The trim is marvelous.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:04 pm

Yes, two more, then were done. Or have I said that before.

The gray Mansard is on 4th street two blocks just behind 92 Second Street.

The blue Mansard is right behind Maplecroft. If you look very carefully to the right of it you can just about see a piece of Maplecorft. This Mansard shares Lizzie's granite wall which separate both the properties.

OH YES> I did not take the photo.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:03 am

DANG........I lived in the city and know all these houses but still never fully realised all the Mansard's Fall River has. It gives you a different perspective when you see them all together like this in one place. MB, does the Mansard rooftop slope at all or is it flat? I'm thinking of those lovely New England winters with that heavy wet snow. If they are flat I am surpised that more of them haven't caved in.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:53 pm

I am enthralled. Thanks again for sharing these. Right now, I live in the Southwest, but I recall loving old houses like these ever since I can remember. During my hippie days, I rented apartments in similar homes, but they were run down. It was painful to see the vinyl siding go on. Old wallpaper was covered over with fake wood panelling. Linoleum torn out.

And the worst : having the kitchens and bathrooms "upgraded" in modern style when there was nothing wrong with them in the first place. Nowadays people "kill" for the old splashback sinks. Some of the images you post here remind me of the art of cake making.

The Psycho house is a work of art. They have a similar one in Orlando. The house interior shots were on a soundstage. I read a book about it. I wonder if Norman and Lizzie had Laundry chutes ?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:03 am

I feel like I've just driven around in Fall River. Thanks for posting the photos, mb. They are so beautiful. I hate to see old, beautiful, or historical buildings demolished.

I saw something on tv recently where they showed the first demolition of a building in the 1970's. I think it was an office building - nothing historical or great. Huge thing, and they were going to put senior apartments there. They commented that it was cheaper to demolish and rebuild.

Please give to the Edwin Porter grave marker fund. See the main page of 'The Hatchet' to donate.

patsy · Post by **patsy** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:35 am

Same with me that I feel like I've just toured Fall River. Such beautiful houses. Love the look of the Mansard roof. Is there any angle other than an ariel view that we could see the top slope on these roofs I wonder.

Thank you for sharing these.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Imagine sitting up in that little room on top of the gray one with the red doors. What a rush that would be, especially with a time machine : Peering out, and along comes a 1957 Chevy, fast forward even more and people are walking down the street talking to themselves (on a blue tooth). No one would believe you back in 1900.
They would call you crazy.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:28 pm

Oh, my goodness, what beautiful homes!!! It makes me wonder how much it cost to heat them. I also didn't realize that most haunted movie houses have Mansard roofs, until it was mentioned on this thread. Interesting.

Thank you so so much for posting these pics for us, mb. I enjoyed them very much.

xyjw · Post by **xyjw** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:53 pm

Such amazing houses. I especially love it when they have large established trees in the yard or lovely gardens like the Fall River Historical Society has. Isn't their a victorian house that is referred to as "the wedding cake"?

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:47 am

Ah yes: The wedding cake house. There are several houses across America known as the wedding cake house, but the famous one is in Kennebunk, Maine. Built by sea captain George Bourne for his wife.

But, when he first built it it was built along the Federal Style. Very period and plain. Then old George improved it or ruined it, depending how you would like to view the renovations he made.

Later Bourne turned the old Federal style home into an extreme Gothic marvel. Not sure whether Bourne was a sea captain or shipbuilder, but he built the Gothic add-on himself.

If you look closely at the photo below, you can see a house within a house. The Gothic structure was build over and around the old Federal style building.

I also included a photo of a period Federal style architecture. (but, it is not the Geo. Bourne House)

patsy · Post by **patsy** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:23 am

The addition is so startling that I wouldn't have thought to look beyond and recognize the Federal style. Fascinating.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:25 pm

I wish they had taught architecture in school. Sometimes I feel that I have existed before when I see such houses. I'm not sure what fragment remains, but something "clicks." Even as a child, I was drawn to the old beauties, large or small. They had souls. Many still do. You know ! Houses With Souls. Not necessarily haunted.
Do any of you go out on Halloween hoping to get a peek inside ?

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:48 pm

Yes stargazer, I'm afraid that when I was a child out Holloween'ing, my focus was on the hand handing me the candy. Hershey Bars please. Anything behind that hand was of no interest. I was not that ahead of my time.

But working in the telecommunication field I have been inside most of the Mansard roof homes I posted.

For instance the Hooper House. It was once a single family home. You can imagine the destruction which took place to change it to a SIX family. That means changing and adding walls, including 5 new kitchens and 5 new bathrooms.