Be Careful What You Wish For

dalcanton · Post by **dalcanton** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:57 pm

Hi, everyone! I haven't been on the forum for a couple months & am trying to catch up. In the meantime, I wanted to share this eerie thought I had about Lizzie Borden & Jonbenet Ramsey. The peculiarities of both cases have always intrigued me, so they got me to thinking - isn't it creepy how both parties essentially got what they wanted in the end - although not necessarily by the means they thought they'd get it? In this sense, I'm talking about Lizzie & Jonbenet's mother, Patsy. From what we know about Lizzie, she always craved the good life. She wanted to be accepted into high society. She wanted people to know who she was. And she got all those things - although perhaps not in the way she had forseen. If the murders had never happened (regardless of her guilt or innocence), people today would not even know who she was - just another anonymous figure from 19th century Victorian times. She might indeed have been a part of high society, but after she had died & the people who had known her had died, her name most likely would've been forgotten. Her name is known - and will forever be known - because of the murders. Same with Jonbenet. Patsy, being an ex-Miss West Virginia pageant winner, chose to aim even higher for her daughter. She wanted JB to one day be crowned the next Miss America. She wanted the spotlight for her daughter. She wanted people to remember her daughter's name. Patsy also got her wish - although it, too, came in a way she could never have imagined. People do remember who JonBenet was - the name alone sparks frenzied speculation. "Why, yes, she was the little girl who was brutally murdered." If that fateful day had never befallen JB & if she had grown up to become the next Miss America, her name would just be a footnote. Same with Lizzie. In both cases, we may never know the "whodunit" for sure, but we'll always remember the players.

DJ · Post by DJ » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:53 pm

That's a thoughtful take on the irony of the situations. One need only look at the Ramsey case to see how wealth & influence can impede law enforcement and the justice system in the investigation & prosecution of a case, now & in 1892. I believe that Patsy wrote the ransom note, at the very least. I think that she might have shaken her too hard, hit her too hard, or been involved in some other act that went horribly wrong; that is, to follow this theory, the crime was manslaughter, not premeditated.)

Anyway, I believe Patsy knew far more than she ever owned up to, as did Lizzie.

The Ramsey house also featured a peculiar layout; also, the child's crime scene was compromised when the father moved the body.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:21 pm

Another similarity, if there is one, is that there was no evidence to convict Lizzie and no evidence to indict the parents of Jonbenet.

Mark Twain: “If it is a Miracle, any sort of evidence will answer, but if it is a Fact, proof is necessary”

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:57 am

Patsy's staged photos always intrigued me. Patsy the martyr mom. Patsy camera ready fashion plate. Patsy's Christmas letter was similar to the ransom note. Lots of exclamation points, and references to status, power, control, achievement. Contradictions. Full of resentment. The last beauty pageant held at a shopping mall was tacky. Jon Benet may have been getting tired of it.

The children may have had a violent tiff. Burke had hit JB in the head once with a golf club before. The ransom note sounded like something out of "Mission Impossible." tv show. And as in the Lizzie case, why would a killer stick around writing a ransom note ? Why bother ? It was a cover up.

DJ · Post by DJ » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:20 pm

If my parents, or my child, were murdered-- and I had the resources to do so-- I would make it a rest-of-my-life's mission to track down the culprit(s).

Particularly if I had been formally accused of the crime (or accused in the court of public opinion).

There would be the dual satisfaction of bringing the true perpetrator(s) to justice and in clearing my name beyond any shadow of a doubt, not just the "resonable doubt" of jurisprudence.

Persons such as John Walsh and Nancy Grace, who have lost loved ones to murders, are just two of the highly public crusaders toward this end, and they weren't even accused of the crimes in question.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:00 am

Nancy Grace? I guess I don't know her story. Who did she lose to a crime?

DJ · Post by DJ » Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:45 pm

Her fiance-- it spurred her to study law and become a prosecutor and advocate for victims' rights.

I am not a fan of her TV show; however, she exemplifies my above point.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:08 pm

It's maddening to think that poor child had to live the life her mother could not quite have for herself, anymore!

And she had no name of her own: Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey:
John Bennet Ramsey= Father
Patricia= Mother
Out of 4 names, they all belonged to someone else.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... &GRid=2745

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:50 pm

And alive or dead, Jon Benet's family still lives under a cloud for me. They just didn't react like a "normal" grieving family...like Lizzie.

Maybe they are accomplices after the fact, as well.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:21 pm

Didn't I hear awhile back that the Ramseys had been totally cleared of any involvement in their daughters death?

patsy · Post by **patsy** » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:41 am

There was news that DNA tests cleared all in the Ramsey Family. DNA tests pointed to unknown male DNA.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/09/jonbenet.dna/

I never thought about Jon Benet not having her own name. So we have Lizzie Andrew and Jon Benet.