Cleaver

[Angel]

I still cannot get rid of the idea that a cleaver from the kitchen drawer could have been the weapon. First, if the cleaver was swung and the bottom edge of it and only part of the blade went into the wounds (rather than the entire length of the blade) then the size of the cut would be the size that they were. Second, that is the reason Andrew's eyeball was cut so cleanly rather than smushed. And, third, Lizzie could have simply washed it off and returned it to the drawer, which is why no one ever found the weapon.

[Yooper]

I suppose it's possible that a cleaver was used, but the wounds seemed to fit the handleless hatchet remarkably well. A hatchet would probaby have a thicker blade than a cleaver. It would leave a wound with some degree of width to it rather than the relatively narrow slit a cleaver would produce. If I remember correctly, an eyeball is a fairly rigid structure, not anything like a water balloon, so it would probably stand up to a crushing blow rather than flatten out. I don't have much experience with cleavers, but I expect a hatchet could be sharpened to almost as fine an edge.

The wounds as described seemed to be a precise length, too. The handleless hatchet fit them perfectly, while a hatchet produced by the defense at the trial did not fit the wounds.

I suspect the prosecution would have tried very hard to make a cleaver fit the wounds. If the murder weapon could have been washed and returned to a kitchen drawer, their job of convicting Lizzie would have been much easier. There didn't seem to be any serious suspicions about a cleaver having been used, something made them zero in on a hatchet, even though it made their job more difficult.

[Fargo]

I was thinking that if a Cleaver were used then there would have been wounds of various lengths because of the size of the blade. I would think it would take a bit of skill and experience to get all the cuts about the same length with each swing of the Cleaver.

Also if the killer was swinging in a fit of rage, the blows might have had varying amounts of force. Of course if the killer was more cool and calm then, the force of the blows might have been more even.

A professional Butcher will have to be consulted and brought in on this for his or her expertise.

[xyjw]

The cleaver is such a good possibility. I guess it makes me wonder how much experience Lizzie had with cooking, especially with the messy job of cleaving large pieces of meat, and meat with bone. Would Bridget have been the one to usually do the cooking and food preparation? Is there any information about the cooking in the Borden home? It has also always "struck" me (just joking) that Lizzie would have needed at least some experience with what happens when you hit flesh with an axe. (Not the same as wood.) If she didn't know what would happen, I think she would have been more likely to get caught. I guess she could have learned what would happen to Andrew after killing Abby. The Borden murders were so quick and clean.

[patsy]

A cleaver would seem to be something that was handy and strong enough to withstand hitting through bone. Although somehow it seems to me that the handle would be shorter on a cleaver than on a hachet which would make it more awkward to use as a weapon.

[Yooper]

A cleaver is built thinner than a hatchet, so I doubt a hatchet would fit the wounds made by a cleaver, they would be too narrow. A hatchet blade is about 3 or 4 inches long, a cleaver is probably 8 or 10 inches long.

Has anyone had any experience using a cleaver? I haven't used them at all. I've butchered animals and I've seen them butchered by others, but any time I've had to cut bone, I've used a hacksaw. A Sawzall is handy item for a beef carcass. I've used axes and hatchets quite a bit and I know what they're capable of.