Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
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- snokkums
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Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
I was reading an article on Lizzie and found something interesting. I know the girls were upset with Andrew for withdrawing their inheritance for Abby and that he put rental property in Abbys' name. But I didn't know it happened five years before the murders. I thought that those situations happened fairly close to the time of the murder.
That's long time before the murders. She must have let all that anger to fester. I am thinking that all the stealing of Andrews money and Abbys' jewelry was Lizzie acting out in anger and murdering her parents.
Found out too that Lizzie nor Emma talked to Uncle John because he was planning to reduce their inheirtance and Abby would put the farm in her name and make Joh's brother in law, John Morse the caretaker. Is there any truth to this? Never heard of this bit of information.
That's long time before the murders. She must have let all that anger to fester. I am thinking that all the stealing of Andrews money and Abbys' jewelry was Lizzie acting out in anger and murdering her parents.
Found out too that Lizzie nor Emma talked to Uncle John because he was planning to reduce their inheirtance and Abby would put the farm in her name and make Joh's brother in law, John Morse the caretaker. Is there any truth to this? Never heard of this bit of information.
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- Yooper
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
Andrew did indeed buy a half interest in the Whitehead house five years before the murders, and he bought it back from Lizzie and Emma shortly before the murders, just a month or two prior, if memory serves. Something about the row over the purchase may be worth noting. That was the point when Lizzie stopped calling Abby "Mother" and began referring to her as Mrs. Borden. There was likely resentment against Abby because she had demonstrated a degree of influence over Andrew. Lizzie and Emma seemed to have a sense of entitlement based upon Andrew's assets, they aspired to the upper reaches of society, and they probably thought Andrew's estate was theirs. Calling Abby "Mother" may tend to recognize any claim Abby might have to the estate. The reality was that it was Andrew's money until he died, and he could do with it as he pleased without asking permission from anyone. The robbery might have been done in frustration over that fact.
What is the source for making Morse the caretaker of the farm for Abby? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.
What is the source for making Morse the caretaker of the farm for Abby? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
Partial
"Andrew was fond of the Swansea place and did not want to sell it off. However, it did not pay for itself, the Swede's wages were an item, and for five years (since the start of the cold war, that is, when the girls stopped vacationing with the family) it had only been used for very short stays. Morse liked Swansea. He had an unmarried niece, his sister's daughter, who would be willing to housekeep for him if he lived there; he would have pasturage for his horses; he still enjoyed farming in a small way; and he enjoyed Andrew's society. Andrew would always be welcome to visit Swansea when he felt like it. Since a note dropped off at the post office would bring Morse from over the river to pick him up, Andrew would even be freed from the expense of keeping his own horse any more, for he lived within easy walking distance of all the other places to which he ever cared to go.
Thus far, it made excellent sense; we need not wonder that he promptly sold the horse at the first good offer.
The fantastic element enters with Andrew's hitherto undisclosed decision to put the farm in Abby's name before Morse moved in. Small wonder it has remained undiscovered all these years. Why he would have done a thing like that twice, God only knows. But he did. It got out through a leak in banking circles. My grandfather thought that this explained how people first got the idea that just before the murders Andrew Borden was about to make a will. ..."
I'd look for a second before I put too much value in it. Lincoln knows a LOT of things nobody else knows.
Jeff, there is this in Lincoln (p54-55):Yooper wrote:What is the source for making Morse the caretaker of the farm for Abby? I don't recall seeing that anywhere.
"Andrew was fond of the Swansea place and did not want to sell it off. However, it did not pay for itself, the Swede's wages were an item, and for five years (since the start of the cold war, that is, when the girls stopped vacationing with the family) it had only been used for very short stays. Morse liked Swansea. He had an unmarried niece, his sister's daughter, who would be willing to housekeep for him if he lived there; he would have pasturage for his horses; he still enjoyed farming in a small way; and he enjoyed Andrew's society. Andrew would always be welcome to visit Swansea when he felt like it. Since a note dropped off at the post office would bring Morse from over the river to pick him up, Andrew would even be freed from the expense of keeping his own horse any more, for he lived within easy walking distance of all the other places to which he ever cared to go.
Thus far, it made excellent sense; we need not wonder that he promptly sold the horse at the first good offer.
The fantastic element enters with Andrew's hitherto undisclosed decision to put the farm in Abby's name before Morse moved in. Small wonder it has remained undiscovered all these years. Why he would have done a thing like that twice, God only knows. But he did. It got out through a leak in banking circles. My grandfather thought that this explained how people first got the idea that just before the murders Andrew Borden was about to make a will. ..."
I'd look for a second before I put too much value in it. Lincoln knows a LOT of things nobody else knows.

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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
Yes, I see, "a leak in banking circles" is about as vague as a source can be! Does her book list sources cited, or souses sorted?
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- Harry
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
LOL, the latter!
No sources anywhere to be found.
No sources anywhere to be found.
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
I've never read her book and it's probably just as well. lol it's confusing enough to deal with the real fact's!
- Yooper
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
In reading the quote from Lincoln above, some of the information makes no sense. Allowing Morse to live at the farm seems reasonable enough, but he could do that regardless of who owned it. If Andrew intended for Abby to inherit the farm, he could have written a will reflecting that. There was nothing to gain by Andrew putting the farm in Abby's name before he died, if it was a financial burden to him, it would be the same for her. If Morse was going to make the farm profitable by overseeing the operation, that would take place regardless of ownership. Lincoln mentions Andrew selling his horse as a result of the plan, but in Bridget's testimony she states that the horse was sold between one and two years before the murders. That seems like a lot of time elapsed without Morse moving to the farm.
Assuming the farm to be a financial burden to Andrew, it makes far more sense to allow Morse to live there rent free and take over operation of the farm. He would have free housing and might make some money farming. Andrew didn't need to make money on the farm, he just didn't need to lose any, so Andrew's problem is solved. Andrew might have visited the farm whenever he wished, as always.
Assuming the farm to be a financial burden to Andrew, it makes far more sense to allow Morse to live there rent free and take over operation of the farm. He would have free housing and might make some money farming. Andrew didn't need to make money on the farm, he just didn't need to lose any, so Andrew's problem is solved. Andrew might have visited the farm whenever he wished, as always.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
- Harry
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
Oh, I'd read it, she's a good writer. Like the Montgomery movie it's fun to spot the errors.shakiboo wrote:I've never read her book and it's probably just as well. lol it's confusing enough to deal with the real fact's!
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
You're right Harry, a good book is a good book, and I love to read! I'll just have to keep in mind what's real and what's not! lol Thanks!
- Yooper
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Re: Resentment leads the stealing and killing?
I guess the problem arises when an author represents information as fact rather than identifying it as speculation. If she had solid proof, cite the source and go from there. I don't think we can dismiss any of the books written about the case, they all contain at least some truth. The challenge is separating the wheat from the chaff!
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra