Feeling sorry for Lizzie

[snokkums]

I kind of feel sorry for Lizzie. First shes suspect in her parents murder, charged with and goes to trial for them. And then, the worst part I think, everyone pretty much has nothing to do with her after the trial. She had to been pretty lonely after the trial. Espcially after Emma decided to leave because she like the actor types that Lizzie entertained. And from everything I've read and heard that didn't last to long eithe. Must have been a lonely life in later years.

[mbhenty]

I can't feel sorry for someone with 3 to 5 million in the bank. (estimated equivalent to)

Someone who did not raise a finger or do a lick of work her entire life.

With the money she had, Lizzie could find no problem in buying friends. And from what we know, she could have bought better friends than some she already had. (and abandoned her after the trail.)

Nope, don't feel sorry for Lizzie Borden at all. (Emma, perhaps, not Lizzie. And even then, I'm being generous.)

[Yooper]

Apparently she was content with what she had, she didn't seem to do much to try and change it.

[snokkums]

But it just seems noone really wanted anything to do with her. She had no true friends.

[Yooper]

Many people thought Lizzie was guilty, and being acquitted was not enough to change their minds. If the attitude of guilt was pervasive enough that people thought associating with Lizzie would tarnish their reputations, then it was the vast majority who thought Lizzie guilty, not just a few. Lizzie didn't do much of anything to try to change the public's attitude about her. Keep in mind that Lizzie had reached notoriety for both the murders and her inheritance. She would probably have been suspicious of anyone suddenly wanting to be her friend. There were likely a few who stood by her from the time before the trial, but she may not have wanted many new friends.

[snokkums]

Yup, I think I'd be a little suspicious if someone wanted to be my friend if I had that money. As for buying friends with the money she had, she probably found that distasteful, as do I. I don't want those kinds of friends. They probably would have cleaned her out.

[Chichibcc]

I don't feel sorry for her-because, to be honest, I think she's the one who committed this atrocious crime.

As a newcomer to both the case and this forum, I'm sure my opinion on that may change as I learn more, but that's how I currently feel. However, I'm certainly open to reviewing/discussing evidence that points to other suspects as well.

Other than this forum, my limited sources of info have mainly been the "History's Mysteries" documentary on the case, plus what I've read on Wikipedia and
3 or 4 Lizzie Borden websites/blogs I found through Google before joining here, so the little I know so far only seems to be the tip of the iceberg at this point.

[snokkums]

I can't feel sorry for someone with 3 to 5 million in the bank. (estimated equivalent to)

Someone who did not raise a finger or do a lick of work her entire life.

With the money she had, Lizzie could find no problem in buying friends. And from what we know, she could have bought better friends than some she already had. (and abandoned her after the trail.)

Nope, don't feel sorry for Lizzie Borden at all. (Emma, perhaps, not Lizzie. And even then, I'm being generous.)

Money doesn't buy you friends. Besides, how do you no if someone is being your friend because of money or because they actually like you. Even Emma left her.

[twinsrwe]

I don't feel sorry for Lizzie, either.

Yes, she was ostracized by many in the community, but she could have made a life for herself away from Fall River. She could have moved to another city or out of the state, for that matter. It’s not like she didn’t have the money, to do so. She could have then changed her name. Granted she did change her first name to Lizbeth, but, what I mean is change her entire name. She could have lived a lower profile life, than she did.

What she did do was basically flaunt her inherited money, by buying a house on ‘the hill’, and lived a high and mighty lifestyle. Changing her first name most likely raised the eyebrows of not only her friends, before and after the trial, but people in the community, as well. I think she wanted to stay in the limelight, because she did nothing to stay out of it.

[shakiboo]

Really there's nothing Lizzie could have done to change things. She thought herself innocent, and that's how she lived her life. While other's thought her quilty and found fault with what ever she did or didn't do. She was not the turn tail and run kinda person, if she believed herself to be innocent, why then should she act like she wasn't? She and Emma stayed in that house way longer then I would have. There's no way I'd have lived there. They didn't buy the biggest, newest, mansion in the city, and they could have, they had the money to do so. I don't think they flaunted their money, they just used it to better their circumstances. As any one would have. Her name change, she was an adult woman being called Lizzie, what she'd been called as a child, her real name was Elizabeth, maybe she just felt it to be a more appropriate change, to use another form of her name, Lizbeth. I'm Pamela but through my childhood I was called Pammy, that changed as soon as I could sign my own name, not to Pamela but to just Pam. If you can see what I 'm saying. They took every little thing she did and made a big deal of it. It was because of the murder, had she not been involved in any way, nothing would have been said about anything. For the one's who thought her quilty there was nothing she could have done, and for the one's who didn't believe her quilty what she did or didn't do didn't matter. Personnely, I think her actions bespeaks more of being innocent then it does of being quilty. But what do I know.

[twinsrwe]

That's true, Pam. I was attempting to 'think' as the people of Fall River, who were ostracizing her, may have thought of her actions. Guess I should have clarified that. However, guilty or not, lonely or not, Lizbeth chose to live her life the way she did. Friends, or no friends.

I have a friend who becomes 'bored' and lonely, even while she is at work. I have never understood her boredom, because I very seldom get bored. I have no trouble finding something to entertain myself with. Perhaps Lizzie also had no trouble finding things to occupy her time with.

[Smudgeman]

I don't feel sorry for Lizzie. She never had to work, got to travel the world, and lived a good life, especially after she got rid of her parents.

[Harry]

Pam, you stated above that Lizzie's real name was Elizabeth. Actually it was Lizzie. At her Inquest:

"Q. (Mr. Knowlton.) Give me your full name.
A. Lizzie Andrew Borden.
Q. Is it Lizzie or Elizabeth?
A. Lizzie.
Q. You were so christened?
A. I was so christened."

She later went by Lizbeth but never legally changed it. If I remember correctly she signed some legal documents with both Lizzie and Lizbeth.

[Yooper]

Lets try this out. Assume a stratified society, the haves and the have-nots, and ne'er the twain shall meet. Marrying outside one's social station was a serious breach of protocol because it caused the haves and have-nots to intermingle. This was very true in Europe during Victorian times, it may have been the case here as well, but history may have squelched the concept as being un-American. If Andrew Borden marrying Abby Grey was a matter of Andrew marrying beneath his station, it may have prevented Andrew from formal inclusion among the haves. Lizzie and Emma, unaffected by Andrew's second marriage in any genealogical sense, might have been accepted by the haves. If the murders were committed to prevent Abby's family from any financial gain from Andrew's estate, the haves might have considered the murders excusable to some degree. It kept the wealth among the wealthy and continued to disallow the have-nots from joining their ranks and living in their neighborhoods. While they couldn't openly acknowledge a murderer among their ranks, they could probably sympathize with the perceived necessity of the deeds, especially if committed by one of their own. In other words, they really did feel sorry for Lizzie being in the position to do what had to be done. Of course, if this is true, they didn't dare admit any of it. So, they remained very close-mouthed about it and never mentioned it to outsiders.

[shakiboo]

Pam, you stated above that Lizzie's real name was Elizabeth. Actually it was Lizzie. At her Inquest:

"Q. (Mr. Knowlton.) Give me your full name.
A. Lizzie Andrew Borden.
Q. Is it Lizzie or Elizabeth?
A. Lizzie.
Q. You were so christened?
A. I was so christened."

She later went by Lizbeth but never legally changed it. If I remember correctly she signed some legal documents with both Lizzie and Lizbeth.

Good Grief!! I can't even count how many times I've seen that or read it and still totally forgot!! Thanks Harry! I should check my facts before climbing up on that soap box!!!