I found a Lizzie Borden video on a YouTube channel by "Garden Bay Films," in which it has been claimed that there was a pail of bloody clothes in the cellar, but that the police didn't inspect it out of respect for Lizzie, thinking that they were from her monthly cycle.
Also, on the night of August 4th, Officer Hyde, one of the officers staying at the house the night of the murder, watched Lizzie through the window during her second trip down into the cellar that night (she'd also been down there with Alice not long before that) and he supposedly saw not just the bloody clothes, but also what may have been pieces of Abby's hair and pieces of her skull as well.
I don't know what to think of this-if officer Hyde was correct, the police really missed a HUGE opportunity to have potentially solved this case.
The pail of bloody cloths has been a matter of speculation before. There is likely something in the archives, perhaps quite a bit. I think there was some information about Lizzie being done with her monthly cycle shortly before the murders. That second trip to the cellar without Alice is also cause for speculation, something was important enough to warrant a second trip downstairs, something which was not remembered on the first trip. Or, something which couldn't be done with Alice standing nearby.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
Unfortunately, we'll never know what was in that pail now-Lizzie has taken that secret to her grave.
But I can understand the police's reasoning behind not really checking the pail, given the era they lived in, so it didn't totally surprise me when I learned they didn't investigate it further.
If she had committed the murder, and hid bloody things related to it in that pail, I'd like to think that she would've placed it somewhere where it would've been less noticeable-not sitting by the sink, of all places.
It might have seemed more suspicious if she had tried to hide it somewhere. It was found in exactly the place they might have expected it to be. They all seemed to know what it was, no one was in a hurry to empty the contents and look them over. I wonder when it dawned on them that it would have been an ideal place to temporarily hide a hatchet head?
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
Okay, I'm sure my ears should be ringing by now, but, Bloody rags in a pail, at a bloody murder scene and the investigating office's didn't at the very least take them into the back yard and dump it out on the ground to see for themselves what was actually in it, because of modesty? They had no qualms about digging through the privy!
They should have called in a police matron, or some female associated with the police force. I can't help but think it would have been a more thorough search.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
Ok, if you don't chose to discuss this, I'll understand, that said, I wonder if they had kotex pads back then, or if they just used clean rags. If they had the pad's, they wouldn't need to have a pail with anything soaking. Yet too, if they used clean rags why would they soak them and not just throw them away or burn them in the burn pile after they'd been used. I just can't imagine washing them to re-use them. But then if I remember right Bridgett backed her up on that. I'm gonna go check on the net when pad's became available, cuz I'd bet if the girls could buy them they would have.
There were no kotex back then....just birdseye cloths, much like diapers, that women used and washed. Both baby diapers and menstrual cloths were soaked when soiled, rinsed, and then washed and bleached.
You know what I found was really gross was that the bodies of Andrew and Abbys' were laid on the dining room table, and the girls spent the night in the house. That is so gross to me.
Suicide is painless It brings on many changes and I will take my leave when I please.
SallyG wrote:There were no kotex back then....just birdseye cloths, much like diapers, that women used and washed. Both baby diapers and menstrual cloths were soaked when soiled, rinsed, and then washed and bleached.
Thanks SallyG, I didn't know for sure, just found that they weren't sold until the 1920's, way later then I had thought.
snokkums wrote:You know what I found was really gross was that the bodies of Andrew and Abbys' were laid on the dining room table, and the girls spent the night in the house. That is so gross to me.
Yeah, that didn't sit well with me, either....I think I would've found somebody to stay with that night, or got a hotel room-I don't know how they managed to stay there that night and act as if everything was so normal, when it clearly was not, and never would be again.
Maybe if it was more or less standard procedure at the time, having the bodies in the house wasn't given much thought. After all, they weren't strangers, they belonged in that house in life.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
I've been rereading the trial transcripts again and the bloodly clothing in the basement belonged to Andrew and Abby. They cut the clothing off the bodies and left them in the cellar for the time being. (08/04). Lizzie did empty her slop bucket with Alice holding the lantern and rinsed it in the sink, returned to the 2nd floor. I haven't gotten to the second trip to the cellar. Some mothers still use cloth diapers and you do need to rinse and then wash. I imagine that menstrual pads worked the same way.
Bye the bye, Bridget was grilled by Moody over and over again. I think he was trying to confuse her into tripping up on what was said at the Inquest. Mrs. Churchill was treated with more respect. Poor Bridget was just a servant.
I think they originally thought Bridget might have been in on it to some degree. Bridget may have tried to minimize things a bit, she tried to downplay any domestic disharmony when others alluded to the fact that Lizzie didn't get along with Abby. I also find it odd that Bridget could remember Lizzie wearing the Bedford cord dress on Wednesday, the day before the murders, but she couldn't remember what Lizzie wore on Thursday. They might have sensed that Bridget wasn't quite as forthcoming as they wished. What we're missing is the body language, all we have is dry, two-dimensional testimony. There's no doubt Bridget was treated as a servant, she had to walk to the courthouse each day while others were provided with a ride.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
Society was stratified in those days, we may not give that idea as much credit as it deserves. We might better understand Lizzie's desire to claw her way up the social ladder under those circumstances. Even the very pinnacle of society was divided between new money and old money, and the nouveau riche were not accepted by the old money group, you had to be born to it, you couldn't earn your way in. The Borden name was part of that old money group in Fall River society, and that's why Lizzie had the sense of entitlement. Got the name, got the dough, gimme control and let me go.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
Despite being part of the "old money" group, I respect Andrew's decision to buy a modest home and not live extravagantly or flaunt his wealth for the whole world to see-why waste money on fancy stuff just to impress everyone else? He obviously didn't give a hoot what others thought of him, and wasn't really hung up on the whole "social status" thing-his daughters were a completely different story, however.
Andrew seemed to be allergic to spending money, and part of the status game was ostentatious spending. He didn't seem to look at life as a popularity contest, another requirement for the uppah crust.
To do is to be. ~Socrates
To be is to do. ~Kant
Do be do be do. ~Sinatra
