Strange behavior

[snokkums]

I got to thinking about this the other night when I was watching a program about the Mansion family. When the maid for Sharon Tate and Roma Polanski came to work that day and decovered the bodies, she ran out of the house screaming and called the police. I am wondering why Lizzie didn't run out of the house screaming when she found her father hacked to death on the sofa. I mean, this was before the doctor got there to give her anything to give her. Instead she tells Bridget to go get the doctor. Just seems alittle to cool. I know she had that stiff upper Yankee lip and wasn't prone to show emotion, but to walk in on that grusome sight would have un-nerved anyone. Kind of makes her look guilty in my mind.

What do you all think?

[shakiboo]

I think she could have made things alot easier on herself had she ran to her father and checked to make sure if he was still living then ran out the door screaming for help. That would have explained any blood found on her dress, and made more sense then what she did do.

[stargazer]

I think I would have left the house ASAP lest the killer be lurking in any number of locations. (unless, of course, I knew very well there wasn't another person). I don't envision Lizzie saying "father are you alright? father, speak to me. who did this to you ?" If Lizzie did come in by way of the screen door from the barn the 'safest way out' might be the way she came in. I may even have suspected the maid at that point, and would not call her down. Depending upon circumstances, I may have yelled at her to get out of the house right away. I would not be "in the know" about much of anything if I found someone hacked up like that. My knees would be all weak, and such.

[Yooper]

Maybe the maid finding Sharon Tate was actually surprised?

[snokkums]

I think she could have made things alot easier on herself had she ran to her father and checked to make sure if he was still living then ran out the door screaming for help. That would have explained any blood found on her dress, and made more sense then what she did do.

I think so too. If she would have done something other than acting cool come and collected. She was making herself look guilt, and then she couldn't make her mind up as to where she was that day for her alibi. Her behavior make her look guilty.

[patsy]

Maybe the maid finding Sharon Tate was actually surprised?

Oh, good one! Haha

Sorry, in all seriousness maybe she was so overwhelmed that she felt weak and could hardly move. Didn't she sit down on the step right by the door.

[Yooper]

Mrs. Churchill thought Lizzie appeared distressed in some way when she looked out her kitchen window after returning from the grocery store. I don't think Mrs. Churchill specified what made her think so, but something didn't look quite right to her. It may have more to do with what Lizzie actually did rather than how she appeared. Her actions themselves have always seemed inconsistent with innocence, as well as her statements as people began arriving, in my opinion. We could argue that someone having just murdered their father with a hatchet might appear just as distressed as an innocent person discovering the crime. The difference would be in their behavior rather than in their appearance.

[twinsrwe]

... I may even have suspected the maid at that point, and would not call her down. Depending upon circumstances, I may have yelled at her to get out of the house right away. I would not be "in the know" about much of anything if I found someone hacked up like that. ...

Good point, stargazer. How did Lizzie know Bridget wasn't the killer, or that she was even still alive?

[twinsrwe]

Maybe the maid finding Sharon Tate was actually surprised?

This is a GOOD ONE, Jeff!

[twinsrwe]

... We could argue that someone having just murdered their father with a hatchet might appear just as distressed as an innocent person discovering the crime. The difference would be in their behavior rather than in their appearance.

You're right, Jeff. I have always thought Lizzie's actions were out of character for someone who is innocent. Personally, I would been out of that house in a flash, with or without Bridget.

[shakiboo]

If I'd come upon someone I loved in that condition, I'd go to them, one way or the other. There wouldn't even be any thought to do otherwise. That has always bothered me where Lizzie is concerned. Of course I'd probably end up with a hatchet in the head, but those first seconds you'd not even be thinking of that, would you?

[Yooper]

The first odd item is a supposedly innocent person coming in from the barn after 20-30 minutes absence, finding her father in the condition she found him, then calling to the maid and getting an answer to her call, and she decided to wait at the bottom of the stairs for her? Bridget would have been the only live person in the house with her dead father as far as Lizzie knew at that moment. If she was innocent, she at least deserved the Darwin Award!

[Angel]

Come to think of it, why didn't Bridget insist that Lizzie get out too if someone had just been murdered. I wouldn't have left someone standing there in the house if I had just been told someone had been murdered inside.

[Yooper]

Maybe if Bridget had actually seen Andrew she might have behaved differently. All Bridget had to act upon was Lizzie telling her that Andrew needed a doctor. Still, it's a good point, even if Bridget was only aware that Andrew had come to some degree of harm at the hands of someone unknown. Bridget might have thought of that later, she and Mrs. Churchill seemed apprehensive about going upstairs unless they both went.

[Yooper]

Come to think of it, maybe we ought to question why Bridget returned to the house twice if Bridget was innocent! As far as she knew, Lizzie was the only live person in the house with Andrew.

[Chichibcc]

Even if she had animosity towards her stepmother and her father, as has been rumored, I would still think that, regardless of her feelings towards them at the time, she would've been freaked out by having found their bodies in the condition that they were in, yet she acted so cool and collected, as if people being slaughtered in her home was just an ordinary thing-this is one of the reasons I'm convinced of her guilt.

[Yooper]

Donald, examine very closely Lizzie's behavior from the time Andrew arrived until Abby was found. Go over the primary sources carefully and determine if Lizzie's actions were consistent with innocence. Determine what Lizzie heard, saw, and knew at each moment and eliminate the impossible. Splitting hairs is always allowable, many of us are masters at the art! As an example, what does the difference between hearing someone "come" in and hearing someone "go" in imply about the logistics? Would one person in a thousand inadvertently make the error?

[shakiboo]

Maybe if Bridget had actually seen Andrew she might have behaved differently. All Bridget had to act upon was Lizzie telling her that Andrew needed a doctor. Still, it's a good point, even if Bridget was only aware that Andrew had come to some degree of harm at the hands of someone unknown. Bridget might have thought of that later, she and Mrs. Churchill seemed apprehensive about going upstairs unless they both went.

Bridgett was used to taking order's from Lizzie, so her telling Lizzie to get out of the house, probably wouldn't have even entered her mind. Every single person who entered the house, before the police searched it, could have ran into a murderer! No one thought about it at all, until it was to go upstair's, then every single law officer and man in the house, let two woman wonder up there alone, not knowing if any one was up there or not. Yet everyone thinks it points to Lizzie being quilty, that she didn't think of it either. Mrs. Churchill didn't hesitate to go in and have a look at Andrew, then she went in with Lizzie, still not scared of running into a murderer.

[Yooper]

It seems that Bridget was the first to think of the possibility of an intruder still in the house. She was apprehensive about going up to get a sheet to cover Andrew. Mrs. Churchill accompanied Bridget each time she was sent upstairs. It does seem odd that it didn't occur to anyone else, maybe if Lizzie seemed calm and unconcerned about it the rest of them picked up on that.

[shakiboo]

Bridgett was Irish and I'd imagine had a big helping of imagination and stories about things that go bump in the night. Her fear might not have had anything to do with a murderer at all, just the fact that there were two dead bodies in the house, who had been murdered would have given her the creeps. If she'd been worried about a murderer, I doubt it would have been Mrs. Churchill she'd have go up with her. Me, I'd of picked the biggest guy in the house! May be two of them! Lizzie had calmed down, when Mrs. Churchill first saw her, she knew immediately something wasn't right. Lizzie was probably as upset at that time as she ever got in front of some one. I believe they were fanning her and wiping her wrists with cool water. you don't do that to some one who is prefectly alright.

[Yooper]

Lizzie may have appeared upset, but not necessarily frightened. What she did was of more importance than how she looked, and she did not attempt to leave the house. Lizzie apparently didn't caution others to be careful, nor did she suggest a search for an intruder be made. Lizzie stopped Bridget from going into the sitting room to see Andrew when she came downstairs, but it may not have been clear whether Andrew was dead or injured. Lizzie prevented Bridget from going to Abby's sister's house to look for Abby, sending her upstairs instead. Abby hadn't been seen or heard in all the activity by that time, so Bridget had to have known what Abby's condition would be if she was upstairs. Bridget was the one who went into the guest room to look at Abby, Mrs. Churchill stopped halfway up the stairs, having seen Abby from there. I don't get the idea that Bridget was especially sensitive about dead bodies.

[shakiboo]

There again is another contradiction, Bridgett wouldn't go up the stairs alone, yet went right into the room, not just to the door, but all the way in by herself. ( I'd forgotten that.) As nervous as she was about going up alone, you'd think she'd have totally freaked at seeing the body from the stairs, and would have ran right back down. So, you're right, she wasn't worried about finding a body....... Mrs. Churchill who'd went right on in to see Andrew, didn't even follow her on up. So, why would you be nervous or afraid about going up stairs alone, then actually find a reason to be afraid, and go right on in. alone?

[Yooper]

The other side of the coin is maybe Bridget thought Mrs. Churchill was right behind her as she went into the room. Bridget might not have realized she was alone until she was actually in the room. I'm sure Bridget was pretty keyed up at the time, so she might not have noticed Mrs. Churchill bailing out.

[shakiboo]

Well, yes, there is that possibility. (darn) lol

[Yooper]

Ready for another one? If Bridget was apprehensive about an intruder lurking upstairs she might well have resisted going by herself, although she was the first one up the stairs. It could be that Lizzie having preempted Bridget's search at Abby's sister's house set the wheels turning. Maybe by then Bridget got the idea that the murderer wasn't upstairs at all, she was downstairs!

[shakiboo]

That could be right, too. That's the trouble, there's just too many things that could be. They actually shouldn't have been going up at all. I don't know who was in charge, but once again, the police should have been doing the looking around, not the maid and a neighbor. It really does point to the authorities not knowing what to do, or how to do it. They dropped the ball so many times it's a wonder they even got her to trial.

[Chichibcc]

I'm sure the police department probably didn't have much experience investigating such brutal, violent crimes such as this one, in Fall River-that inexperience certainly hurt the case, IMO.

[Yooper]

The investigative techniques at the time weren't overly sophisticated, so maybe they didn't think security of the crime scene was as important as we do now. Still, there was no good reason to allow people to wander about the premises at random, it certainly would do them no good to allow it. For all I know, one of the spectators might have found a hatchet stashed somewhere and kept it as a souvenir.

[shakiboo]

I think where Bridgett is concerned, there was too much going on, and to many things for her to comprehend at that time, for her to even start the mental pointing finger. Like for Lizzie (if it happend as she said) coming in from the barn and finding her father murdered, wouldn't have for one second, thought that Bridgett had done it. In her mind at that time, Bridgett would have been where she'd left her, upstairs taking a nap. So, she ran to the stairs to call her down. What she said would have been true, in her mind, at that time, SOME ONE, (a stranger) had done it. Those other kinds of thoughts wouldn't have entered their heads till later, if ever. If you can see what I mean.

[Yooper]

Yes, I see what you mean. From another standpoint, how reasonable is it for Bridget to have committed Andrew's murder, and then go back upstairs to finish her nap? I'm sure people were operating on assumptions to a degree rather than strictly on reason. Bridget was first and foremost a household servant, she was probably focused on assisting others. Still, while she may not have been processing facts in an orderly fashion at the time, she may have subconsciously gotten the idea that something wasn't right. We don't need to have all the ducks in a row to know when something seems wrong. There's no end to the speculation for what someone was thinking!