Emma's reaction to andrews body

[snokkums]

I have read that Lizzies reaction to seeing her father appeared to be cold. She was sharpely criticized for that. But I don't think she was being cold. I think it was a shook to her system.

But I don't ever recall reading anything about Emmas reaction was. Has anyone read or heard anything about that?

[LizbethTurner]

The reaction of a person to a traumatic event actually doesn't mean much in terms of their guilt or involvement.

[snokkums]

I wasn't \trying to imply that Lizzie was quilty because of the way she reacted at seeing her fathers body. People do react in different ways, and besides, Newe Englanders are known for being tight-lipped and not showing alot of emotion. I remember reading to Dr. Bowen did give her some sedatives. I was just curious as to how Emma reacted.

[SallyG]

I remember several years ago my second son, who was in his twenties at the time, was living out in Nevada. He called me one evening to tell me he'd had a car accident but was ok. He was very calm and composed. Several house later he called me crying hysterically. The shock had worn off and he was reacting in a way that people would think "normal"..upset, emotional, etc.

When my father died, my mother was very calm and collected. We went to the funeral home to make the arrangements, picked out his clothes, put the house back in order, etc. I stayed with her that night and I woke up in the middle of the night to hear her sobbing uncontrolably....another "normal" reaction....however belated.

When my brother and his wife lost their infant daughter to SIDS at 3 weeks old, they were composed and went through the motions of what needed to be done. Later in the evening they broke down completely.

I think it's more common than not for a person to react more matter of factly, go through the motions, attend to what needs doing, etc in the face of tragedy. It doesn't mean Lizzie was guilty or innocent...it just means she actually WAS reacting in a more NORMAL manner. Even if she was guilty, I'm sure there was a fair amount of shock at what had happened...that she had actually done it! Once it was over and done with, and things were being attended to, THEN she could break down in a normal manner.

Emma probably reacted in a similar manner.

[snokkums]

I think in the beginning, it's just the inital shock that this situation just didn't happen, and then when the reality of it sinks in that's when a person gets hysterical. Maybe thats the reason why when the troops come back from war they have post traumaic syndrome. They are dealing with an unreal situation, and it sinks in after they get home.

[Albanyguy]

Would Emma have even seen Andrew's body on her return to Fall River on August 4th? I've always assumed that by the time she reached the house in the early evening, both bodies would have been removed to the dining room and covered with sheets. She wouldn't have had to see them at all unless she wanted to. And if she did decide to go into the dining room and lift the sheet for a look at Andrew, she could have waited until everyone had left for the night and then done it in complete privacy, either alone or with Lizzie or Alice Russell by her side. It's entirely possible that she didn't see Andrew until he was laid out in his coffin for the funeral.

[snokkums]

I remember reading somewhere that the bodies were kept on the dining room table until the next or something like that. And removed to the morgue a couple of days later. I might be wrong. Even if Emma hadn't seen the bodies, I wonder what her reaction was to the whole situation to her parents being murdered. And then her reaction to having her sister accused of the murders.

[augusta]

I think that's a great question, Snokkums. I don't think it was ever written about, and I don't remember that it was asked of her in court.

I've read on here that Emma could have taken an earlier train back to Fall River but for some reason took a later train. I think someone - maybe Harry - figured that Emma got back home about 5:30 pm.

If that's true, then Emma had some time to digest the news.

Emma may not have reacted much when she got Dr. Bowen's telegram. Lizzie mentioned that an old woman lived at the house Emma was visiting and to be careful how he worded it so as not to upset that woman. That leads me to wonder if the telegram came out and said the parents were murdered. I think he'd have to let Emma know they were dead. It'd be awful if he just said, "COME HOME STOP PARENTS UNWELL STOP", then they all yelled "Surprise!!" when she got there. I would think he let her know they were dead in a middle-of-the-road way: "PLEASE COME HOME AT ONCE STOP PARENTS PERISHED IN AXE-IDENT STOP". Maybe: "COME HOME STOP THERE WILL BE TWO LESS AT DINNER TONIGHT STOP". "COME HOME AND CONGRATULATIONS STOP YOU ARE NOW A RICH WOMAN STOP" I wish we knew exactly what he did say in that telegram. Well, he had to send two, didn't he, since while he was gone to wire her about Andrew, Abby was found.

I wonder why Emma did not communicate by phone, once she got the telegrams. I think a lot of homes had telephones then. If her Fairhaven hosts didn't have one, there was probably one near and she could have called someone with a phone in Fall River - a close friend or maybe the police station. Maybe she was too shaken up to run around looking for a phone. The way A & A were murdered is so shocking. I wonder if she knew how they died. I would think that, if nothing else, she would have heard "how" on the train coming home.

Personally I think Emma didn't see the bodies until they were fixed up and in their caskets for the funeral service. At 3:00 or 3:10 pm, doctors did the partial autopsy which mostly just amounted to taking out both of their stomach contents and sending them to Boston for analysis. I'd think that by the time Emma came trooping up the misty ways they would be at Winwards.

[snokkums]

I think that Emma had awhole to digest. Her parents had been murdered, Lizzie was a suspect.I think she was reacting as any monther would, even though she was the older sister. She was taking care of her younger sister, as she promised her mother.

[1bigsteve]

I have always been able to handle horrible situations with out batting an eye but later on I suddenly get hit with the reality of the situation. It's like a delayed reaction. Years ago when I heard that one of my friends died I was surprised but it was hours later before it hit me, like walking into a power line. Emma probably went through the same reaction at hearing about her parent's death. Even if she had been in on the planning of their murders she would have felt something upon seeing the bodies. People in those days tried hard to keep their emotions in check.

-1bigsteve

[Allen]

I know what you mean about the delayed reaction. When terrible things have occurred in my life it seems to be later on that I actually register the full emotion of it. I think there is a period of denial. You hear the news but really don't register is as true because it's too overwhelming.

[snokkums]

Yup, I can relate to a delayed reaction. Took me along to come to terms with all I saw in Desert Strom. Didn't deal with while I was there, but when I got back. Awhole lot of therepy.Going thru war isn't fun, even if you're a medic. Get to the seeder side of a war.

[SallyG]

You got that right, snokkums. Two of my sons were over in Iraq...the oldest rode in to the initial ground invasion. He's 33 now and has been out of the military for about 5 years, but it's still tough for him. My 3rd dealt with things better...but his facination with WW2 for most of his life enabled him to have a better grasp of what war is all about. But either way, it's a tough prospect...before AND after!

[snokkums]

Loud noises, like a car backfiring or a train still are hard for me. I get alittle jumpy at that. Or when I hear heilcopter or the sound of the soliders at the firing range on Fort Bragg. Even though I'm from Milwaukee,I now live about 20 mintues from Ft. Bragg.

[LizbethTurner]

Private messaging, anyone?

[SallyG]

What is that supposed to mean? I didn't realize we have the message police here...

[LizbethTurner]

What would you like explained?

[SallyG]

Maybe why you feel the need to cause problems here....much like "someone else" who has managed to slip past Stephanies radar several times.

[snokkums]

Where is this all coming from ? Juat asked a simplie question and gave some personal experiances and everyone wants to get ugly? Please correct if I am wrong. Did not mean to get this thread like this.

[xyjw]

Snokkums I never knew you were a medic. That is so cool. You might enjoy a book called In Hospital And Camp by Harold Elk Staubing. It's the civil war as seen through the eyes of its doctors and nurses. I really like victorian era medicine, surgery, etc. and this book is battlefield medicine of that time in history. It's one of my favorites.

[snokkums]

Wrote down the title. I'll be going to Barnes and Noble to get that one. Sound like a good one.

[SallyG]

Where is this all coming from ? Juat asked a simplie question and gave some personal experiances and everyone wants to get ugly? Please correct if I am wrong. Did not mean to get this thread like this.

She's a nut case, Snooks....ignore her. Never knew you were a medic either. My oldest son was a medic in Iraq. Not a pretty job!

(BTW, my comment above was directed at said "nut case", not you!)

[snokkums]

It wasn't a pretty job. I went to the first desert strom. Combat medic. Had to pick the up off the field take them to the aid station, and the ones at the aid station that were ready to transport to the hospital, take them by helicopter.Not fun being in a helicopter being shot at when you're trying to do a trak tube.

[snokkums]

What would you like explained?

YOUR'RE F******* ADDITUDE TOWARDS EVERYONE. THAT IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED. And IF YOU DO NOT LIKE OUR COMPANY THEN GET THE HELL OFF THIS FORUM. WE DON'T WNAT YOU.


Everlone else, I am sorry for the language I just used.

Thank- you,
Robin

[snokkums]

Where is this all coming from ? Juat asked a simplie question and gave some personal experiances and everyone wants to get ugly? Please correct if I am wrong. Did not mean to get this thread like this.

She's a nut case, Snooks....ignore her. Never knew you were a medic either. My oldest son was a medic in Iraq. Not a pretty job!

(BTW, my comment above was directed at said "nut case", not you!)

I understand SallyG, And I understand. Thank-you. And i know that your comments weren't directed at me, but I thank- you for cearifying that.
Thanks,

Robin

[SallyG]

No problem, Snooks....don't let her ignorance bother you. Obviously she has issues far beyond what anyone on this forum said or didn't say to her.