GOOD BYE

[snokkums]

I thought that I sone friends on r=this board. Goodbye

[twinsrwe]

Robin, please see my PM to you.

[twinsrwe]

I'm glad to see you are back!

[snokkums]

YUp, but not as much as I used to be. I wonder if there is a way that Stephani can screen people so we aren't getting knuckleheads like LizbethTurner. Just wondering if it isn't RayS in drag.

[twinsrwe]

Well, it doesn’t matter if she is actually Lizbeth Turner or someone impersonating someone else. She had no right to attack you, or anyone else on this forum, in the manner in which she did. We can only hope that she has actually left this forum for good.

[SallyG]

I don't think it was Ray..Ray tried to come back legitimately awhile back but was not accepted back. And it really didn't sound like him. It sounded like "someone else"....whether or not it was her I don't know, but if not, she was a very vile person. Sometimes being anonymous brings out the worst in people, since they figure they can say anything they want and no one knows who they are. The truth is, NO ONE is anonymous..we can all be tracked down. I think people forget that when they get their fingers on the keyboard.

[twinsrwe]

I agree, Sally.

I don't think it was RayS, either. He would not have been able to post the number of post this person did without bringing Arnold Brown into the topic of discussion.

It's true, we all have our own style of wording the things we type.

As Abraham Lincoln once said: "You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all of the time."

[mbhenty]

''

Yes,

LizbethTurner is not who anyone thinks she is.

Everyone who joins are vetted and scrutinized the best they can be, short of driving to their town and knocking on their door. This is done by the administrator. LizbethTurner is not Rays. True. I don't think RayS could ever post without mentioning Arnold Brown.

LizbethTurner has a website, and she is in fact an artist.

http://www.sprocketsinside.blogspot.com/

LizbethTurner is just a little firey. I can easily see how things can get out of hand. I also had trouble with RayS. At first. I flipped out on him...... got that out of the way, then took a different approach. Never had trouble with him again. Why? Because I was in control. But, that's me.

I never had trouble with LizbethTurner, though I found her very opinionated, almost dictatorial at times. She appears very knowledgeable. And if I must be honest down right mean at times.

Why, who knows?

Yes, I agree. Her handling of snokkums was uncalled for and down right contemptible. And on the other hand confusing. Why Lizbeth? Very uncalled for.

Sometimes we must walk gently around people like LT until we get to know them. If you are to be honest you must admit this is true about Snokkums. Though she has many friends on here, and even people who appear to real care for her, she dismisses them, with statements such as "I thought that I sone friends on r=this board. Goodbye" Doesn't she think she is hurting people on here by being so opaque?

How can she say that, when there were a handful of people who came to her rescue. Is it all one sided for snokkums?

No, please understand. I am not attacking her. Just stating a fact. I have supported snokkums countless times by responding to her posts, trying to encourage her topics etc. For some reason, she does not recognize that, or doesn't care? I'm sure that is not true. She appears to be a very nice girl.

There are people on here I don't read. Didn't like what they say. Found no value in their posts. So, I ignore them. This would be my advise to LizbethTurner. But, this can be said to and about snokkums also. I read snokkum's posts and give it its righful due. Ignoring someone is your best defense if you don't like what they say. But why snokkums ignores the fact that she has people on here that have proven their friendship is beyond me.

And, it is something that must be brought to the surface.

To LizbethTurner, and to the detriment of many on here, I say come on back. Apologize and lets get down to business talking about the facts of the Borden case.

[twinsrwe]

You have made some very valid points, MB.

I was surprised by the knowledge Lizbeth had in regards to the Borden case. I agree with you in that she was very opinionated and dictatorial at times.

As to why she lost her cool over Allen not posting ‘a very strong warning’ for the web site she submitted titled, Victorian Death Photo's, is beyond me. Lizbeth refused to accept Allen’s apology to anyone who was offended by the photos. In short, she took her anger out on snokkums, and before she left the forum took her anger out on other forum members. Maybe she is the kind of person who must be in control of everyone she communicates with. In other words, she’s right and everyone else is wrong, no matter what the circumstance are. Is this truly what happened? I really don’t know, I’m only speculating.

You’re right, I was hurt, as well as surprised, to think that Robin thought so little of her forum friends that she was going to leave without explaining why. I imagine she was hurt and upset by the entire Lizbeth thing, but why take it out on the very people who came fourth to defended her? Again, I’m only speculating here.

None of us are prefect, that’s for sure. We all have our faults, and it is up to each of us to handle our anger in a constructive manner.

However, I am glad Robin decided to come back. I agree, if Lizbeth were to return, she does need to apologize to snokkums, as well as the other forum members she took her anger out on. Then perhaps we can put all of this behind us and get back to discussing the Borden case.

[SallyG]

I believe that Robin was initially upset at the thought that members had posted PM's to "Lizbeth" stating the things that "Lizbeth" indicated. "Lizbeth" stated that those that were defending Snokkums were the very ones who had sent the PM's. Now, I, for one, KNOW that I never did such a thing. I can only speak for myself, but I find no reason for anyone else to have sent such messages. Therefore, "Lizbeth' was probably lying about it. Why would she lie about something like that...and why would she say the things she did? Yes, Lizbeth Turner has a website...but how do we know that this Lizbeth Turner is the person who is listed as an artist on the website? Perhaps she is just using that persons name.

If I was Robin, I'm sure I would have been upset as well....at least for a short time. Some people are more emotional than others. Snokkums is not hurting me....I know she was lashing out because SHE was hurt. I understand that and do not let her anger bother me.

This "Lizbeth" is obviously NOT a nice person who can hold friendly conversations with others...she has issues...and personally I have my doubts about her true identity.

[xyjw]

I don't get to post very often, but I must say I was pretty confused at Ms. Turner's criticizing Allen's Memento Mori/ Victorian Death Photos. They were relevant to the subject being discussed and appropriate for this site. Then she seemed to imply on a different thread that posters were rejecting Snokkums behind her back. I thought something had gone wrong with this website because it has always been a place for open discussion of subject matter that would be controversial to some. I hope everything returns to normal, this forum is the best!

[Yooper]

When the dust and the fur have settled, I'm left with this: Why are personal messages by a newbie about a veteran member necessary? Why are we answerable to her? The fact that Robin has been here as long as she has should indicate that she is welcome, or at the very least tolerated by everyone. It was like that when Lizbeth got here.

[patsy]

Just saw this and I have to say I am glad you came back, Robin, you have contributed a lot to this board and many times I pop in and am always glad to see that you've started another interesting thread. I wish I had more to contribute but as an avid reader I get so caught up in threads and then forget what I want to say much of the time.

[LizbethTurner]

I've just found this thread and I have to say I'm embarrassed for all of you. I initially came here wanting to discuss EB with intelligent like minded peopke, only to find the board taken over by Snokkums, who is obviously retarded and/or on drugs. I got plenty of private messages telling me to ignore Snokkums, but why would I? If Snokkums has a right to post ignorant, illiterate drivel all over the board then surely other peope have the right to notice it and not like it.

And, once again, I find that anyone with an opinion is accused of being "dictatorial." What a bunch of silly sheep you are, to be so terrified of someone with a different opinion. You should all be embarrassed.

[Smudgeman]

Perhaps this forum is NOT for you. I don't know if you are seeking attention or just want to name call and cause trouble. You owe Snokkums an apology at least. If you do not "like" her posts, then simply ignore them. Grow up !

[stuartwsa]

Differing opinions don't bother me in the least. Bad mannered bullies do, though.

[mbhenty]

THESE POST REMIND ME OF SOME QUOTES, ALL OF THEM BY ALBERT EINSTEIN, THEY ARE:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.

Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character.

A person starts to live when he can live outside himself.

Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

NOT ONLY THAT, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON''T KNOW THAT EINSTEIN WAS A SAILOR.

[mbhenty]

CAN'T BE MORE INTELLECTUAL THAN ALBERT EINSTEIN, I SUPPOSE.

[mbhenty]

Here he is on his own boat.

He said he sailed to get away from those things that would drive him mad.

Wonder whether he had a mathematical equation to how to set his sails

[mbhenty]

Yes.

Talking about sailing.

I just received a call a couple of hours ago to inform me that a good sailor friend of mine just died. He was a great friend. He just put his boat up for sale this year because he said he was to old to sail it. He never did sell it. I saw him sailing by me just last week. An intellectual, Joe was.

Many a night we sat on his boat telling sea stories, and he had hundreds of them, over a beer. You see, my friend Joe was 78. And he had the biggest sailboat in the marina. He was a fascinating guy.

It's calls like the one I received tonight that help me put "forum" talk into prospective. Life can be a tornado, and it's chasing you down. There is no escaping it. It will catch up to one and all.

This is a photo of Joe's boat. I took it last year as I sailed by in mine.

To many sad things on the horizon to endure the trivial complaints of others. I can't see the tornado, but sometimes I can hear the wind.

That's why I go sailing.

[Yooper]

Apparently not embarrassed enough to quit posting here.

[mbhenty]

You had to met Joe. He looked like one of those sea captains, a carved figure of Captain Ahab, a similar beard to Andrew Borden, wearing a greek style sailor's hat. You couldn't look more salty than Joe if you tried. And, he was real.

Joe walked with a limp and a brace on one leg. An anchor line and chain once tangled around his foot and dragged him off his boat and down to the water. Down he went into the deep, to the bottom. He struggled to free himself. He did and lived. That was many years ago.

In the accident Joe's foot was almost ripped off. They had to try and put it back together. They were able to save it—avoid amputation, but Joe had to use a steel brace around his dead foot to hold it together, and he needed the use of a cane, which he had all his life. But he got around just fine. Later his 40 foot boat was cut in half in the middle of the night, while at anchor down in the Carolinas, by a fishing trawler. They were fishing illegally at night with no lights. Again he almost drown.

Sitting with Joe, hearing him tell one story after another, was fascinating. About his travels up an down the east coast and in Alaska.He remembered Fall River, where he lived, in the forties and fifties, and told stories about those times.

We would sit and drink beer after beer exchanging sea stories, told from experience. Of course, I had to exaggerate to make mine worth telling. But Joe didn't care.

Once it got late he would close up the boat and we would start for home. Sometimes I would drink a little to much and struggle down the rocky docks. But Joe.....Joe never did. With a bum foot, and drinking twice what I could, the 78 year old sailor walked as he always did. With a limb, a cane, and straight.

I will surely miss you Joe.

[mbhenty]

One funny story Joe told me happened in 1944, when he was a young teenage boy.

There was this French Church up the North End of fall river. Saint Matthews. Built of simple brick, still it was majestic, an impressive tall structure, with spires that were probably 200 feet high. The church was torn down in the Eighties, I believe, it was. A very plain building. As I remember it, there was talk that the spires had become dangerous and the church had to be torn down.

WELL:

Joe told me the story about when he was a young teenager and climbing inside the spire. Of course he was not suppose to be there. But, in those days, churches were always left unlocked. I remember how quite they were when I entered. It was just me and this huge colossal space. As busy as it was out on the street, the peace and quite inside was magical. It was the closest I ever felt to God.

At the time, Saint Matthews was having some work done to one of its spires. Joe had to climb this never ending ladder to get to the tip of the spire,on the inside. Men had been working on it and they had scaffolding all over. On the outside of the spire, right at the very, very top, was a trap door, which led out to one of the crosses which sat at the pinnacle of the church roof. Out on the roof was scaffolding surrounding the cross. Men had been working on it, but there was no one there that day, just a young Joe.

As Joe told it. "I flung open the trap door and looked out. I felt like I was in heaven. I walked out onto the scaffolding and sat at the base of the 12 foot high cross. I could see all of Somerset, Swansea, Bristol, and all the way to Porvidence, R.I.

What a story.

How many of us can say we ever done anything like it?

Below is an old postcard of Saint Matthews.

Time rolls on quicker than the axe which fell onto Mrs. Borden's head.

Now both Joe and the old church have passed on.

[SallyG]

I've just found this thread and I have to say I'm embarrassed for all of you. I initially came here wanting to discuss EB with intelligent like minded peopke, only to find the board taken over by Snokkums, who is obviously retarded and/or on drugs. I got plenty of private messages telling me to ignore Snokkums, but why would I? If Snokkums has a right to post ignorant, illiterate drivel all over the board then surely other peope have the right to notice it and not like it.

And, once again, I find that anyone with an opinion is accused of being "dictatorial." What a bunch of silly sheep you are, to be so terrified of someone with a different opinion. You should all be embarrassed.

I thought you were going away. I highly doubt you EVER got any private messages, about Snokkums or otherwise. Snokkums has the right to post whatever she likes....if you don't like it, you have the right to ignore it. What you don't have the right to do is come on here like a lumbering battleaxe, thinking you can call people names and make unpleasant comments about them. And you think people are going to agree with you? Everyone has different opinions on here....however, we are considerate, well bred, and polite enough to allow everyone their own opinions and posts, and not call them ignorant numbskulls as YOU seem to be fond of doing.

I think you must be used to bullying people and getting your own way all the time, and it's a burr up your butt that you can't do it here! You can be embarrassed all you like...no one really cares!

[Yooper]

Maybe if we stop feeding the troll, she'll go away. Worth a try?

[mbhenty]

Yes Yooper:

I have said the same many times before..............if not using the same choice of words.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is why I posted the information about my dear friend Joe.

To change the subject.

To change the subject.

To

Change

the

subject.

Perhaps I should have posted my story about Joe in STAY TO TEA, or as I call it, "Who with big bucks in the bank died now." STAY TO TEA has become an obituary site for the rich and wealthy. Meanwhile, Mrs. Moniz, 74, who lived in the high-rise on Pleasant Street, where they stack the elderly on atop one another, like the discarded boards in the Borden's back yard, when she dies, no one knows or cares.

Of course, this in no means is directed at you Yooper. Please understand. Just my rant about which one of us are given attention. If you can't get it by dying, like Mrs Moniz, or by posting something positive, there are ways to get it.

And Lizbeth Turner has found it.

The only thing worst than being talked about is not being talked about...........eh?

Perhaps Ms. Turner is an intellectual after all.

LET ME TRY AGAIN..........

[snokkums]

I love the picture of the dog. What kind of breed is this little cutie? And a name?

[SallyG]

True, guys...I just loathe a bully!