There was in the barn a secret that must be covered

[PossumPie]

Sorry, but the thought that Lizzy went out to the barn to pleasure herself is laughable. I believe she did go out to the barn, though not in the hay loft, nor the carriage house below, but to the barn privy to dispose of a new hatchet that was used as the murder weapon. She was seen by Hymon Lubinski at approx. 11:05 AM coming from the barn toward the side door of the house. So that would be the only secret that the barn held. Oh and the fact that the victims clothing and the contents of the bloody hip bath were buried behind the barn... three times and dug back back up. However, if the police had taken a closer look at the contents of the hip bath they would have found a bloody apron and several bloody towels. The inventory that was taken when they buried the evidence included the victims clothes that were worn at the time, the doily and pillow from the sofa, the sheet that covered Mr. Borden, three bloody towels and "two" bloody aprons. I don't know why no one else every questioned where the second apron came from, though I think that would help explain the lack of blood splatter on any of the clothing worn by the only other persons in the house at the time. Bridget and Lizzie.

There is an awful amount of speculation here...My understanding of the "hip bath" was that after the trial some pieces of evidence were stored in a metal tub (hip bath) in the attorney Andrew Jackson Jennings's attic. No burial of these items was done, and there was no apron, bloody or otherwise. While the "pleasuring herself" may be implausible, it is not laughable. We try to keep factual items clear, and speculation clear. If you have any factual item to post that is "little known" please site your sources.

[Yooper]

Sorry, but the thought that Lizzy went out to the barn to pleasure herself is laughable.

So, please laugh. But sorry, nothing could guarantee that you can laugh last.

It is absolutely unnecessary to disprove anything which hasn't first been proven.

[Allen]

It was my understanding the the privy in the barn had been searched. It was an officer who provided the inventory of what was buried in the yard so the police were aware of what was buried. It was also my understanding the aprons were worn by the physicians who examined the bodies after the murders.

Witness Statements page 42 From the notes of Officer Albert E. Chase:

Fall River, Mass. August 5, 1892.
The following articles and wearing apparel were this afternoon taken from a washtub in the cellar wash room of the Borden House by orders of the City Marshal and
Medical Examiner, and were buried under my direction in the yard back of the barn.
1 sofa pillow and tidy, one large piece of Brussels carpet, one roll of cotton batting, one sheet and several pieces of cotton cloth, three towels, one napkin, one chemise, one dress, one pair drawers, one skirt, two aprons, one hair braid and several pieces of hair from Mrs. Borden’s head from five to eight inches long, one neck tie, one truss, one piece of black silk braid or watch guard.
I also found mixed in with the hair of Mrs. Borden a piece of bone, which from it nature I took to be a piece of Mrs. Borden’s skull, it was cut so smooth, that I thought it might be of use in determining what kind of instrument was used, as the bone and hair both had the appearance of being cut with a very
sharp instrument; I gave this piece of bone to Dr. Dolan.
About the middle of the next week Dr. Dolan ordered all the articles dug up. After taking out pieces of clothing and of the carpet, they were ordered buried again. This time they were all put in a box.

Trial Testimony of Francis L. Edson page 673:

Q. Is there anything more you wish to say about the barn?
A. We searched the out-house in the barn, the vault underneath the out-house.

Witness Statements page 38 From the notes of Officer Desmond:

...After finishing the east chimney, which is the one in the kitchen, we went to look at the one in the west of building. This runs up between the parlor and dining room. The side in the dining room seemed to be bricked up or cemented. While we were looking over it, Emma and Lizzie both said “if this front is in your way, tear it out.” Mr. Jennings was there at, the time. Emma spoke about a “lumber pile in the yard”, and thought it would be a good place to search. Mr. Bryant, and myself went into the cellar; and it was thoroughly searched by Edson, Conners, Quigley and Desmond. From there, we went and searched he barn, lumber pile, yard, privy vault and well, also John Crowe’s yard which is on south side of Borden house.

[PossumPie]

Thanks Allen, that is correct...there were two separate "tubs" one in the attic of the attorney's home, and one that they carried the autopsy stuff out in. Sorry about the confusion...

[Franz]

Sorry, but the thought that Lizzy went out to the barn to pleasure herself is laughable.

So, please laugh. But sorry, nothing could guarantee that you can laugh last.

It is absolutely unnecessary to disprove anything which hasn't first been proven.

Sorry, Yooper, but it seems that you didn't understand my reply and why I replied in that way.

[Franz]

We try to keep factual items clear, and speculation clear. [/quote]

You are right!

[Franz]

We try to keep factual items clear, and speculation clear.

you are right!

[Franz]

Thank you Allen for information.

[mbhenty]

Yes:


I was doing some research and came across this thread.

I discovered an error and wanted to set the record straight.

In the fourth thread I mention that "Andrew Borden found an old lock in the street." In fact he did not find the lock in the street. He found it in one of his stores on South Main Street. Clegg the hatter's store. Not in the street.

I got confused with a situation that happened to me many years ago.

Several blocks down the street from that South Main Street address is Middle Street. Many years ago I was working in this large run down apartment house that was being renovated. The elderly gentleman who just sold it stopped to talk to me. He was probably older than Andrew Borden. He felt compelled to tell me that he had just sold the apartment house for a million dollars. Very modest fellow. I think he was an old milkman by trade. (?) He lived in a three decker in the North End. While we were speaking he saw an old lock that lay in the street. Probably came out of the old apartment house. It was worthless. He picked it up, inspected it carefully, and then placed it in his pocket.

It was not Andrew Borden. Borden found the old lock inside his store.

Just thought someone would like to know.

[Franz]

Hey mbhenty, I appreciate your seriousness.