My theory: Uncle John Was Guilty (revised version)

[Franz]

This is the revised version of my theory about the Borden case. For obvious reasons I will use the indicative form for the verbs, and won’t use “probably”, “possibly” in many cases where these words are normally expected to be used. Certainly, mine is no more than just a conjecture. Because I assume that Lizzie was innocent, I consider some statements of her testimony as reliable.

1. Lizzie, Bridget and Emma were all innocent, totally innocent.

2. Uncle John was the real guilty one, but he didn’t kill Andrew and Abby with his own hands. He organized the double murder and had two conspirators, two men, to help him.

3. On the morning of August 4th 1892, after Morse and Andrew left the house, at one moment between about 9:20-9:30, the two conspirators, as they had planned, went together towards the Borden house. One of them, the executive killer, hid himself behind the corner at the south side of the house. The other one, the false messenger, rang the front door. Fortunately for them, it was Abby who opened the door.

4. After opening the door, Abby saw a stranger standing near the fence which separated the house from the street.
Abby: “What’s the matter, young man?”
Messenger: “Good morning! Are you Mrs. Borden? Here is a note for you, from Mrs. X.” He handed the note to Abby, without moving his feet.
Abby didn’t suspect nothing, considering the behavior of the stranger as a sign of respect for her private property. She went downstairs towards the young man to take the note.
Meanwhile, the killer, from the corner, stepped up the parapet and went into the house, went upstairs and went into the guest room as they had planned. He did all this as silently and as quickly as possible. At that moment, Lizzie was in her room, but she didn’t notice anything.

5. The conversation between Abby and the messenger continued.
Abby: “Do you know Mrs. X?”
Messenger: “ No. I just went by before her house, and a gentleman, I think he is her husband, asked me if I could make him a favour and send this note to you. Because I was coming this way, I agreed.”
Abby: “Thank you. It’s kind of you.” While speaking, Abby read the note, and then put it in one of her pockets. “Good-bye” she said, and was to return to the house.
Messenger: “Mrs. Borden, another moment, please. When I was coming here, I met Mr. Morse, whom I know. He was walking in the same direction, too. He asked me what I was doing, and I explained him the story, he said: “I am so fortunate. I slept last night in the Borden house but I forgot my watch in my room and I am returning there to fetch it. Can you ask Mrs. Borden to find my watch in the guest room and bring it to Mrs. X’s house? I will go there to meet her and to get my watch. I might need it this morning. My watch might have dropped on the floor, near the head of bed.”
Abby: “I will. Good-bye.”
Messenger: “Good-bye.”

6. Shortly after, Bridget and Dr. Kelly’s girl, Mary Doolan, engaged a conversation at the fence which separated the two properties. They didn’t see nor notice anything.
Mrs. Bowen didn’t sit at her front window as early as 9:30 to await and watch for the coming of her daughter who was expected on the forenoon train. Mrs. Bowen saw nothing.

7. Abby entered the house, and met Lizzie who was just going downstairs from her room. They had their last conversation in the hall.
Abby: "Lizzie, I have a note from somebody that is sick and I am going out. I am going to get the dinner on the way. It’s less hot today, right?”
Lizzie: “Yes, it’s less hot than two days ago. Mrs. Borden.”

8. The conversation ended, Abby began to lock the front door, and Lizzie went to the kitchen or the dining room. From that moment, Lizzie didn’t care of Abby’s presence or movements, believing that she had gone out for the visit.

9. After locking the front door, Abby went upstairs and went into the guest room where the killer was waiting her, behind the door. Abby thought that she would change her clothes for the visit and give some indications to Bridget for the household chores after she would have found Morse’s watch in the guest room.

10. After having entered the room and suspecting nothing, Abby went straight to the head of bed. She kneeled on the floor to search well. Meanwhile, the killer approached her quickly. Abby heard the step noise. She lifted her head, but it was too late. She received the first blow that killed her almost immediately.

11. After having killed Abby, the killer, as they had foreseen and planned, searched the pockets of Abby and found the note, and took it, in order to not leave the note as evidence in the police’s hands. That’s why the note was never found afterwards.

12. After killing Abby, the killer was hiding always in the guest room, with Abby’s body lying on the floor, and with the door closed (as Lizzie said afterwards in her testimony). During all his waiting time, fortunately, neither Lizzie nor Bridget came into the guest room, just as Morse wished: he invented the note just in order to avoid Lizzie’s involvement.

13. From the guest room’s three windows, the killer was able to know when Andrew returned. At the moment he judged the best, he left the room and went to kill Andrew, and didn’t care to close the door (that’s why Bridget and Mrs. Churchill found it open when they went there to search for Abby). It appeared that Andrew had been attacked from above and behind him as he slept. The killer went downstairs by the front stairs, he entered the sitting room, either by the sitting room door, or via the parlor by the other door, and he would be in a position almost behind Andrew. After killing Andrew, he escaped as quickly as possible, that’s why Andrew received less blows than Abby did. The murderer escaped taking the weapon with him, that’s why the weapon was not found in the house, it was indeed never found anywhere else either.

14. While his father was being killed, Lizzie did go into the barn with the idea to search for something. But what she actually did then in the barn was something so intimate that she couldn’t confess at any price, that’s why she lied in her alibi testimony. My conjecture is: she masturbated herself there. When she went out from the barn and came back to the house, she was seen by Lubinsky, the ice-cream dealer, who testified afterwards that he saw a woman walking very slowly in the yard of the Borden house. (I don’t need to explain why she was walking very slowly.) Lizzie killed neither Abby nor Andrew, that’s why no blood was found on her body or on her clothes.

15. Morse, unbelievably, was such an excellent observer that morning and remembered many details when he was in the town, because he knew he must have solid alibi proof to present afterwards. He arrived in Fall River unexpectedly, with no changing clothes, and Abby was killed just in the guest room, just the following morning after his arrival. The murderer had accomplished his double killing before Morse returned to the house. All this because it was he, Morse, who planned the murders.

16. Morse established a solid alibi for himself. On the other hand, he asked the killer to kill as brutal as possible his two victims, that’s why Abby received 19 blows, Andrew 10, even though the very first blow in each case killed the victim immediately. Morse wished that the police, in view of the extreme ferocity and brutality of the crime, would believe that only a man could be capable of such a horrible crime, and therefore would not suspect the two women in the house: Lizzie and Bridget. But it was here the unique thing that didn’t occur as Morse planned: Lizzie was accused of the murders. Fortunately, she was acquitted afterwards.

17. Motive: Morse and Andrew’s friendship was apparently cordial and sincere, and in fact it wasn’t so. Morse thought he had been badly betrayed by Andrew, and wanted to avenge himself.

P.S.:

1. Morse could have been innocent. In this case, I must assume that the two guilty men, at least one of them, should have known the interior structure of the Borden house. They should have known Morse’s visit to the house and that he slept in the guest room so that they could have profited his visit to realize their murder plan. In this case, I must reconsider the motive of the murder. But for the moment I tend to think Morse was the organizer of the double murder because of his too perfect alibi testimony and his suspicious behaviors when he returned to the Borden house after the murders had happened.

2. Morse and his conspirators used the false note not only to prevent Lizzie and Bridget from looking for Abby, but also to get rid of the suspicion that Abby might have had: why didn’t Morse return himself to fetch his watch. The note and the watch were two plots in one.

3. Since Lizzie was murder suspect, she could have lied about her whereabouts, placing herself as far as possible from the guest room where Abby was killed. But I think that she was in her room when the conversation between Abby and the messenger happened, and she met Abby for the last time in the front hall (not in the dining room as Lizzie herself testified).

4. Is it possible that the messenger was the driver of that buddy standing near the Borden house, seen by Mark Chase, one of the few people who testified about the movements on the Second Street of that fatal morning?

5. “Lizzie’s attorneys believed that the note called the delivery to the bearer of some articles from Mr. Morse’s room; that the assailant followed Mrs. Borden into that room and that he afterwards regained possession of the note. It was never found.” (Arthur S. Philips, Borden Murder Mystery: In Defence of Lizzie Borden, pp. 1-2.)

6. I reached independently my scenario about when, how and from where the intruder came into the Borden house. Up to now I have read very few literature about the Borden case. Has anyone already proposed the same or a similar scenario?

© Li Song-Yang. All Rights Reserved.

[Miranda]

What is your theory as to motive?
what is your theory as to the "overkill" aspect.

As far as the alibi, I get the impression that Mr Morse was a very meticulous man. My Uncle is the same, he can tell you every phone number of every family member (probably 200 people) off the top of his head, and can give directions to their houses in most cases. He can tell you all the names of his army buddies from Vietnam, after 40+ years. I have no doubt that if he was asked where he was and what he was doing a week or a month ago, he could tell you minute by minute.

[Franz]

What is your theory as to motive?
what is your theory as to the "overkill" aspect.

As far as the alibi, I get the impression that Mr Morse was a very meticulous man. My Uncle is the same, he can tell you every phone number of every family member (probably 200 people) off the top of his head, and can give directions to their houses in most cases. He can tell you all the names of his army buddies from Vietnam, after 40+ years. I have no doubt that if he was asked where he was and what he was doing a week or a month ago, he could tell you minute by minute.

Hello Miranda, thank you for your reply.

1. For Morse's motive, my conjecture is that he was very badly betrayed by Andrew in some business affair, so he wanted to avenge himself. Abby was killed as well and was killed before Andrew, I think this was not casual. If Abby had not been killed, she would get Andrew's wealth, and Morse didn't want that such a thing occured, so he planned his murder plot to kill Abby first, and Andrew second. It is a fact that Andrew had a bad reputation in business affairs, so, in my opinion, it should be possible that his relation with Morse was cordial only apparently.

2. For the overkill of Abby and Andrew, I have explained my speculation in my thread, and for the moment I still think so.

3. For Morse's memory and his observation capacity, if you read his inquest testimony, you will find how many times he failed to notice things much more easier to notice than a transport car number. It seems that he was so brilliant only that morning when he was in the town!

[Allen]

How different is Morse remembering the number of the horsecar that he rode than someone remembering the number of the bus they ride home from a bus stop today? These horsecars, or horse drawn trolley cars, took a regular route just a buses and subway trains do today. They were not like taxi's. You had to know which one to take to get where you are going. Thus you would be watching for a certain number, just like a bus or a subway train. Why would you not remember that?

[Yooper]

How different is Morse remembering the number of the horsecar that he rode than someone remembering the number of the bus they ride home from a bus stop today? These horsecars, or horse drawn trolley cars, took a regular route just a buses and subway trains do today. They were not like taxi's. You had to know which one to take to get where you are going. Thus you would be watching for a certain number, just like a bus or a subway train. Why would you not remember that?

Now, now, Allen! We all know that remembering horse car numbers is absolute and unequivocal evidence of guilt! So is the inability to recall an undetermined number of people who may or may not have been surrounding the house in a siege maneuver.

[PossumPie]

I re-read documents and court transcripts and came to the conclusion that at Morse's return, there were only one or two people near the outside of the Borden home. The alleged crowds of weeping people blocking doors is absolutely false. Morse testified under oath that he saw ONLY Mr. Sawyer and Bridget near the doors and when he finally went in, he saw more people.

[Franz]

Post Scriptum:

1. I think it is possible that, at one moment between 9:20-9:30, when the false messenger rang the front door (and Abby opened the door), Bridget had just gone “to the barn to get the handle for the brush” (Bridget’s Trial Testimony, p. 229). When the executive killer had gone into the house by the front door without being noticed by Abby, and the conversation between Abby and the messenger was reaching the end, Bridget came out from the barn. When she was to wash the windows of the sitting room, Mary, Mrs. Kelly’s girl, appeared, and Bridget engaged a conversation with her at the fence. So Bridget and Mary didn’t notice nothing from the place where they met.

Those few minutes were one of the most crucial moments in that mysterious morning of August 4th 1892 in the Borden house.

2. When questioned by Knowlton, Lizzie said:

A: … She (Abby) said she was going out and would get the dinner. That is the last I saw her.
Q. Where did you go to then?
A. Into the kitchen.
Q. Where then?
A. Down cellar.

I think when Lizzie saw Abby for the last time, Abby told her the note, something that Lizzie avoided to talk about at that moment in front of Knowlton, because of the great confusion she was living in those days about the note story. But the rest of what Lizzie said was truth: after leaving Abby (in the front hall, this is my conjecture), Lizzie went “into the kitchen” and then “down cellar”.

3. According to the timetables of the events showed above, I concluded that, most probably, when Abby was killed in the guest room and fell on the floor from a kneeling position, Bridget was chatting with Mary, and Lizzie was in the cellar (or at least she was entering in the cellar). That’s why neither Bridget nor Lizzie heard the falling noise of Abby’s body (if there was any normally perceptible noise).

4. I conjectured that when Abby opened the front door and engaged the conversation with the false messenger (meanwhile the executive killer entered in the house and the guest room), Lizzie closed herself in her room, probably because of her periods, so she didn’t notice nothing. Probably for the same reason she went down cellar afterwards.

[Franz]

I re-read documents and court transcripts and came to the conclusion that at Morse's return, there were only one or two people near the outside of the Borden home. The alleged crowds of weeping people blocking doors is absolutely false. Morse testified under oath that he saw ONLY Mr. Sawyer and Bridget near the doors and when he finally went in, he saw more people.

So you think that Mr. Sawyer and Mrs. Churchill's inquest testimonies concerning our subject were erroneous?

[Franz]

How different is Morse remembering the number of the horsecar that he rode than someone remembering the number of the bus they ride home from a bus stop today? These horsecars, or horse drawn trolley cars, took a regular route just a buses and subway trains do today. They were not like taxi's. You had to know which one to take to get where you are going. Thus you would be watching for a certain number, just like a bus or a subway train. Why would you not remember that?

Allen, it's not me who was surprised by Morse's remembering the horsecar number, but the contempory persons of Morse, the inhabitants of Fall River. So I guess that the number in question sould not be the number of the line, but the specific numer of that car in question, just as every single bus of today has a number of itself, a number that has no importance at all for a common passenger. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Allen]

I re-read documents and court transcripts and came to the conclusion that at Morse's return, there were only one or two people near the outside of the Borden home. The alleged crowds of weeping people blocking doors is absolutely false. Morse testified under oath that he saw ONLY Mr. Sawyer and Bridget near the doors and when he finally went in, he saw more people.

So you think that Mr. Sawyer and Mrs. Churchill's inquest testimonies concerning our subject were erroneous?

Mr. Sawyer said that the people were out on the street when Morse arrived. Mrs. Churchill was not even outside to see a crowd. She was inside the house. She said it was her impression there was. But that she could not say how many people were outside until she went home. Which is when she went outside. And that was after Morse got there.

[Franz]

Allen, Sawyer said that "the fences appeared to be pretty well filled up" when Morse arrived.

Morse himself said: "Saw a number of people around the house, and was told that Mr. and Mrs. Borden was killed." So he saw a number of people around the house first, and then, he was told the death news outside the side door, so he saw a number of people outside the house. He contradicted himself in the inquest testimony.

[Yooper]

I re-read documents and court transcripts and came to the conclusion that at Morse's return, there were only one or two people near the outside of the Borden home. The alleged crowds of weeping people blocking doors is absolutely false. Morse testified under oath that he saw ONLY Mr. Sawyer and Bridget near the doors and when he finally went in, he saw more people.

Note also that Morse never said he didn't see anyone, he said he didn't see anything to be concerned with at that moment. Think about it, even if there were a few people on the sidewalk in front of the house, what should he make of it? Should he question their presence? Why exactly should Morse run to the back door and barge into the house as though suspecting a murder? He said that he was not concerned by what he saw upon arriving at the Borden house, not enough to raise suspicions about any emergency. If Morse was guilty of anything, why would he behave in what some of us now call a suspicious manner in front of witnesses on the sidewalk and in the house?

[Franz]

My theory is certainly, as any other theory about the Borden case, open to discussion for many points. Among them the most notable should be the motive of Morse, if he did organize the double murder. I would be happy to exchange ideas with you about my theory and those of others.

Meanwhile, I think that, to a number of questions, my theory could offer a possible answer, and in my opinion, in some cases, a probable one. For example:

1. Question: Why no one said that he/she was the author or messenger of the note (assuming that the note did exist)?
My answer: Because the author of the note was anyone else but Morse (and his conspirators). They certainly would not make such a statement after the murder.

2. Q: Why was the note never found?
M. A.: Because the killer, after having murdered Abby, looked for the note and took it away, in order not to leave it in the police’s hands.

3. Q: Why was Abby killed in the guest room, maybe the best place for the murder?
M. A.: Because Morse went to the house the day before and slept in the guest room. This prepared the background for the murder. And Morse invented a lie to deceive Abby to enter into that room. It was not casual that Abby was killed there, it was the result of a carefully premeditated criminal plan.

4. Q: Why was Abby’s body found in that place (between the bureau and the bed), and in that position?
M. A: Because Morse deceived her with his watch story.

5. Q: How could the intruder enter into the house (assuming that the killer was an intruder)?
M. A.: As I speculated, the false messenger rang the front door and Abby opened it. The messenger acted in that manner (cfr. my original post) so that the executive killer could enter the house by the front door from his hiding corner.

6. Q: Why didn’t Bridget and Lizzie know nothing about the note’s sending?
M. A.: At that very moment Bridget was in the barn, Lizzie closed herself in her room (maybe for her period matter).

7. Q: Why didn’t Lizzie and Bridget notice nothing when Abby was killed?
M. A.: The first reason is that Abby might have been kneeling on the floor to search well the (invisible) watch, this diminished considerably the noise (probably) produced by the falling of her body; the second reason is that, at the moment of the murder, Lizzie was in the water closet in the cellar, Bridget at the fence chatting with Mary.

8. Q: If the note story was true, why did Abby wear still her house dress, not the dress for the visit, when she was killed?
M. A.: Because she had no time to change her dress. She thought to find Morse’s watch first, and then, to change her dress. But she was killed in the guest room almost immediately after her conversations with the messenger and then with Lizzie.

9. Q: Why were the two victims so overkilled?
M. A.: They were killed in that manner intentionally. Morse wanted to make the murder the most horribly possible, so that the police would not suspect the two women present in the house. This is consistent with the note story, that was invented by Morse to prevent Lizzie and Bridget of involving in the tragedy.

10. Q: Why did Abby receive much more blows than Andrew did (19-10)?
M. A.: Because the killer, after killing Abby, would wait in the guest room until Andrew’s return, he had plenty of time to give the blows as much as he wanted; after killing Andrew, he should escape as quickly as possible (but overkill as well, for the reason I explained in the point 9).

11. Q: Why was Abby killed first and Andrew second?
M. A.: Morse, for the motive that I speculated in my original post, wanted to kill Andrew, Meanwhile, being the uncle of Emma and Lizzie, he wanted that his nieces could benefit as much as possible Andrew’s death, so he planned to kill Abby as well, and she must die first. That’s why he organized a very complicated murder plan: killing Abby in the house when Andrew went out for his business tour, and then killing him when he returned, with a notable time interval.

12. Q: Why was the guest room door open when Bridget and Mrs. Churchill went there to search for Abby, but before that, as Lizzie testified, the same door was closed?
M. A.: Because the killer, after killing Abby, hid himself just in the guest room during all his waiting time. (Neither Lizzie nor Bridget entered in that room during all that time). And when the killer left the room to go to kill Andrew, he didn’t care to close it, so it was found open afterwards.

13. Q.: Why was the weapon never found?
M. A.: Because the killer took it away when escaping.

14 Q: Why did Lizzie, if innocent, give a contradictory alibi testimony?
M. A.: Because when her father was killed, she was in the barn and was doing something that she couldn’t confess at any price, so she lied.

15. Q: Why was Lizzie perfectly clean when Andrew’s body was found?
M. A.: Because Lizzie didn’t kill her father, she didn’t kill Abby neither. She didn’t kill anyone in that fatal morning.

[PossumPie]

Franz, I took a shot at answering your questions too. I Underlined/bolded them below:

My theory is certainly, as any other theory about the Borden case, open to discussion for many points. Among them the most notable should be the motive of Morse, if he did organize the double murder. I would be happy to exchange ideas with you about my theory and those of others.

Meanwhile, I think that, to a number of questions, my theory could offer a possible answer, and in my opinion, in some cases, a probable one. For example:

1. Question: Why no one said that he/she was the author or messenger of the note (assuming that the note did exist)?
My answer: Because the author of the note was anyone else but Morse (and his conspirators). They certainly would not make such a statement after the murder.
My (simple answer) answer: There is no proof a note ever existed
2. Q: Why was the note never found?
M. A.: Because the killer, after having murdered Abby, looked for the note and took it away, in order not to leave it in the police’s hands.
My (simple) Answer: It never existed
3. Q: Why was Abby killed in the guest room, maybe the best place for the murder?
M. A.: Because Morse went to the house the day before and slept in the guest room. This prepared the background for the murder. And Morse invented a lie to deceive Abby to enter into that room. It was not casual that Abby was killed there, it was the result of a carefully premeditated criminal plan.
My (simple) answer: She went there to make the bed

4. Q: Why was Abby’s body found in that place (between the bureau and the bed), and in that position?
M. A: Because Morse deceived her with his watch story.
My Simple Answer: She happened to be on that side of the bed. REMEMBER she was POSED for that picture, that isn't how she fell Dr. admitted moving her.

5. Q: How could the intruder enter into the house (assuming that the killer was an intruder)?
M. A.: As I speculated, the false messenger rang the front door and Abby opened it. The messenger acted in that manner (cfr. my original post) so that the executive killer could enter the house by the front door from his hiding corner.
My (simple) answer: She was already in the house

6. Q: Why didn’t Bridget and Lizzie know nothing about the note’s sending?
M. A.: At that very moment Bridget was in the barn, Lizzie closed herself in her room (maybe for her period matter).
My Simple answer: It didn't exist

7. Q: Why didn’t Lizzie and Bridget notice nothing when Abby was killed?
M. A.: The first reason is that Abby might have been kneeling on the floor to search well the (invisible) watch, this diminished considerably the noise (probably) produced by the falling of her body; the second reason is that, at the moment of the murder, Lizzie was in the water closet in the cellar, Bridget at the fence chatting with Mary.
My simple Answer: Bridget was outside, Lizzie was killing Mrs. Borden

8. Q: If the note story was true, why did Abby wear still her house dress, not the dress for the visit, when she was killed?
M. A.: Because she had no time to change her dress. She thought to find Morse’s watch first, and then, to change her dress. But she was killed in the guest room almost immediately after her conversations with the messenger and then with Lizzie.
My Simple Answer: The note story wasn't true


9. Q: Why were the two victims so overkilled?
M. A.: They were killed in that manner intentionally. Morse wanted to make the murder the most horribly possible, so that the police would not suspect the two women present in the house. This is consistent with the note story, that was invented by Morse to prevent Lizzie and Bridget of involving in the tragedy.
My Simple Answer: horrible vicious murder is almost always b/c the victim knows the killer intimately.

10. Q: Why did Abby receive much more blows than Andrew did (19-10)?
M. A.: Because the killer, after killing Abby, would wait in the guest room until Andrew’s return, he had plenty of time to give the blows as much as he wanted; after killing Andrew, he should escape as quickly as possible (but overkill as well, for the reason I explained in the point 9).
My Simple Answer: Lizzie hated her more.

11. Q: Why was Abby killed first and Andrew second?
M. A.: Morse, for a motive unknown for me, wanted to kill Andrew, Meanwhile, being the uncle of Emma and Lizzie, he wanted that his nieces could benefit as much as possible Andrew’s death, so he planned to kill Abby as well, and she must die first. That’s why he organized a very complicated murder plan: killing Abby in the house when Andrew went out for his business tour, and then killing him when he returned, with a notable time interval.
My Simple Answer: If Mr. Borden was killed first, the money would go to Mrs. Borden, then on her death, to her relatives. Lizzie HAD to kill Mrs. Borden first or lose the money.

12. Q: Why was the guest door open when Bridget and Mrs. Churchill went there to search for Abby, but before that, as Lizzie testified, the same door was closed?
M. A.: Because the killer, after killing Abby, hid himself just in the guest room during all his waiting time. (Neither Lizzie nor Bridget entered in that room during all that time). And when the killer left the room to go to kill Andrew, he didn’t care to close it, so it was found open afterwards.
My Simple Answer: Lizzie left it open so Mrs. Borden would be discovered.

13. Q.: Why was the weapon never found?
M. A.: Because the killer took it away when escaping.
My Simple Answer: A person living in a house knows every loose board, etc. and can easily hide a weapon so it isn't found. It was disposed of later.

14 Q: Why did Lizzie, if innocent, give a contradictory alibi testimony?
M. A.: Because when her father was killed, she was in the barn and was doing something that she couldn’t confess at any price, so she lied.
My Simple Answer: She killed them

15. Q: Why was Lizzie perfectly clean when Andrew’s body was found?
M. A.: Because Lizzie didn’t kill her father, she didn’t kill Abby neither. She didn’t kill anyone in that fatal morning.
My Simple Answer: She used an apron when killing Mrs. Borden, and Mr. Borden's coat when killing him, which she then balled up under his head to hide the splatter pattern.

Lastly Franz, I ask you for the 13th time....WHY, WHAT WAS HIS MOTIVE??

[Franz]

PossumPie, we have different opinions, it's a good thing.

Thank you for your reply.

[NancyDrew]

Franz has answered that questions, but badly, in my opinion. Andrew Borden was known to be a tight-fisted busienssman, and there must have been some sort of deal gone wrong, for which Morse wanted to exact revenge by arranging the gruesome killings of both he and his wife.

It's weak. Very, very, weak.

[Darrowfan]

Franz has answered that questions, but badly, in my opinion. Andrew Borden was known to be a tight-fisted busienssman, and there must have been some sort of deal gone wrong, for which Morse wanted to exact revenge by arranging the gruesome killings of both he and his wife.

It's weak. Very, very, weak.

One other thing. If Morse were to arrange the killings, why would he spend the night before with the Bordens, then return to the scene shortly after the killings? Wouldn't this only serve to draw attention, and hence suspicion, to him. (Which it did).

The smarter move would be to be as far away as possible when the killings took place. Morse would want to be able to say, "I was miles away when it happened", "I haven't seen the Bordens for weeks", etc.

[twinsrwe]

Franz has answered that questions, but badly, in my opinion. ...

Where do you see that Franz answered the question of Morse’s motive?

[twinsrwe]

… 11. Q: Why was Abby killed first and Andrew second?
M. A.: Morse, for a motive unknown for me, wanted to kill Andrew, Meanwhile, being the uncle of Emma and Lizzie, he wanted that his nieces could benefit as much as possible Andrew’s death, so he planned to kill Abby as well, and she must die first. That’s why he organized a very complicated murder plan: killing Abby in the house when Andrew went out for his business tour, and then killing him when he returned, with a notable time interval. …

So, you do not have a motive for your theory. I’m sorry, Franz, and I mean no disrespect toward you, but without a motive your theory falls flat on it’s face.

[PossumPie]

I agree with Darrowfan, If Morse WAS going to be apart of the murders, he would have been hundreds of miles away, that is the Perfect alibi!!!

[Franz]

… 11. Q: Why was Abby killed first and Andrew second?
M. A.: Morse, for a motive unknown for me, wanted to kill Andrew, Meanwhile, being the uncle of Emma and Lizzie, he wanted that his nieces could benefit as much as possible Andrew’s death, so he planned to kill Abby as well, and she must die first. That’s why he organized a very complicated murder plan: killing Abby in the house when Andrew went out for his business tour, and then killing him when he returned, with a notable time interval. …

So, you do not have a motive for your theory. I’m sorry, Franz, and I mean no disrespect toward you, but without a motive your theory falls flat on it’s face.

twinsrwe, please read carefully what I wrote: I wrote here "for a motive unknown for me". If I understand well English, I think when I use "know", I would state "I know something as a fact". I certainly don't know Morse's motive, what I said in my first and this revised versions concerning Morse's motive is nothing esle but my speculation. I certainly have a speculated motive for Morse, but I don't know it if Morse were guilty. Was I wrong while writing so?

[Franz]

Franz has answered that questions, but badly, in my opinion. Andrew Borden was known to be a tight-fisted busienssman, and there must have been some sort of deal gone wrong, for which Morse wanted to exact revenge by arranging the gruesome killings of both he and his wife.

It's weak. Very, very, weak.

One other thing. If Morse were to arrange the killings, why would he spend the night before with the Bordens, then return to the scene shortly after the killings? Wouldn't this only serve to draw attention, and hence suspicion, to him. (Which it did).

The smarter move would be to be as far away as possible when the killings took place. Morse would want to be able to say, "I was miles away when it happened", "I haven't seen the Bordens for weeks", etc.

In my opinion Morse went there and spent the night in order to prepare the background for the murder: to kill Abby in that room (with the watch and note plots).

[Franz]

Franz has answered that questions, but badly, in my opinion. ...

Where do you see that Franz answered the question of Morse’s motive?

I don't need to answer, because I have stated my speculation concerning Morse's motive in my original post. I will certainly consider this issue further.

[Franz]

I agree with Darrowfan, If Morse WAS going to be apart of the murders, he would have been hundreds of miles away, that is the Perfect alibi!!!

If so, how could the intruder enter into the house, and kill Abby exactly in the guest room first, and then, Andrew second, with a notable time interval?

[Darrowfan]

In my opinion Morse went there and spent the night in order to prepare the background for the murder: to kill Abby in that room (with the watch and note plots).

I'm curious about something, Franz. What made you settle on the "watch" as an object that Morse supposedly forgot? Why not his wallet, or a briefcase, or an expensive handkerchief? Better yet, why not just say, "Morse pretended to forget something in the guest room", instead of specifying the object. Simply saying "something" makes it much more theoretical. Saying something specific like "watch" almost makes it seem as if you were involved in the plot yourself.

Hmmm, come to think of it, Franz, where were you on the morning of August 4, 1892?

[Franz]

In my opinion Morse went there and spent the night in order to prepare the background for the murder: to kill Abby in that room (with the watch and note plots).

I'm curious about something, Franz. What made you settle on the "watch" as an object that Morse supposedly forgot? Why not his wallet, or a briefcase, or an expensive handkerchief? Better yet, why not just say, "Morse pretended to forget something in the guest room", instead of specifying the object. Simply saying "something" makes it much more theoretical. Saying something specific like "watch" almost makes it seem as if you were involved in the plot yourself.

You are right, Darrowfan, watch is only a conjecture, but I think it is relatively more probable: Morse might have need his watch. So his lie could deceive Abby easily.

[Franz]

In my opinion Morse went there and spent the night in order to prepare the background for the murder: to kill Abby in that room (with the watch and note plots).

I'm curious about something, Franz. What made you settle on the "watch" as an object that Morse supposedly forgot? Why not his wallet, or a briefcase, or an expensive handkerchief? Better yet, why not just say, "Morse pretended to forget something in the guest room", instead of specifying the object. Simply saying "something" makes it much more theoretical. Saying something specific like "watch" almost makes it seem as if you were involved in the plot yourself.

Hmmm, come to think of it, Franz, where were you on the morning of August 4, 1892?

I noticed that my thread in question was published at 11:20 pm, your reply was published only 9 minutes after (11:29 pm), but the total number of your posts is still under 50. When my posts were less 50, I waited always many hours, even one day, before my thread was published.

I am just curious...

[twinsrwe]

… 11. Q: Why was Abby killed first and Andrew second?
M. A.: Morse, for a motive unknown for me, wanted to kill Andrew, Meanwhile, being the uncle of Emma and Lizzie, he wanted that his nieces could benefit as much as possible Andrew’s death, so he planned to kill Abby as well, and she must die first. That’s why he organized a very complicated murder plan: killing Abby in the house when Andrew went out for his business tour, and then killing him when he returned, with a notable time interval. …

So, you do not have a motive for your theory. I’m sorry, Franz, and I mean no disrespect toward you, but without a motive your theory falls flat on it’s face.

twinsrwe, please read carefully what I wrote: I wrote here "for a motive unknown for me". If I understand well English, I think when I use "know", I would state "I know something as a fact". I certainly don't know Morse's motive, what I said in my first and this revised versions concerning Morse's motive is nothing esle but my speculation. I certainly have a speculated motive for Morse, but I don't know it if Morse were guilty. Was I wrong while writing so?

Yes Franz, I read your theory several times and each time came to the conclusion I stated. The sentence I highlighted in red, tells me you do not know Morse’s motive, not even as a speculation. If you are going to speculate about Morse’s motive, then leave out the red highlighted sentence. As a suggestion, start your answer with something like: Since, Morse was Emma and Lizzie uncle, he …

[Franz]

Thank you for your suggestion, twinsrwe. It seems that I am responsable for the misunderstanding.

Yes, I can only have a speculated motive for Morse. Many facts disappeared in the darkness of the time. "The only thing I know is that I know nothing".

Thank you for having read several times my theory. I feel honored by your interest.

[twinsrwe]

You're welcome, Franz.

[Miranda]

In my opinion Morse went there and spent the night in order to prepare the background for the murder: to kill Abby in that room (with the watch and note plots).

I'm curious about something, Franz. What made you settle on the "watch" as an object that Morse supposedly forgot? Why not his wallet, or a briefcase, or an expensive handkerchief? Better yet, why not just say, "Morse pretended to forget something in the guest room", instead of specifying the object. Simply saying "something" makes it much more theoretical. Saying something specific like "watch" almost makes it seem as if you were involved in the plot yourself.

Hmmm, come to think of it, Franz, where were you on the morning of August 4, 1892?

I noticed that my thread in question was published at 11:20 pm, your reply was published only 9 minutes after (11:29 pm), but the total number of your posts is still under 50. When my posts were less 50, I waited always many hours, even one day, before my thread was published.

I am just curious...

Time shown is your local time, Franz. For instance, my screen shows it as 6:50pm. That is central time USA. In Italy it would be 6 or 7 hours later. (in London it is 12:50 am tomorrow)

does that answer your curiousity?

[Franz]

Thank you Miranda, but what matters is the different time of those two threads, mine and the reply of Darrowfan, only 9 minutes. In other words, no matter which time is shown, I read his reply only after 9 minutes I posted my thread.

[Darrowfan]

I noticed that my thread in question was published at 11:20 pm, your reply was published only 9 minutes after (11:29 pm), but the total number of your posts is still under 50. When my posts were less 50, I waited always many hours, even one day, before my thread was published.

I am just curious...

Well, I can't explain that, Franz. I will say that it took about 7 days for my first post to show up. I think I wrote my very first post on a Friday, and my posts didn't start showing on the site until the next Thursday or Friday. I was about to give up.

[twinsrwe]

Franz, something that has never made any sense to me…

You stated in line #4 of your revised theory that Abby saw a stranger standing near the fence which separated the house from the street. Furthermore, Abby didn’t suspect nothing, considering the behavior of the stranger as a sign of respect for her private property. She went downstairs towards the young man to take the note. Meanwhile, the killer, from the corner, stepped up the parapet and went into the house, went upstairs and went into the guest room as they had planned. He did all this as silently and as quickly as possible.

How in the world did your killer manage to get by Abby without her noticing anything? In order for your intruder to go up the steps to get to the guest room, he/she would have had to go directly behind Abby, who was at the front door. How could Abby not have notice a person going up the steps behind her? The intruder would have come close to running into her when he/she was at the bottom of the stairs!

[twinsrwe]

Franz, you also stated: At that moment, Lizzie was in her room, but she didn’t notice anything.

If Lizzie was in her room, how could she not have noticed that an intruder had gone into the guest room; especially, after Abby had to have gone up the stairs and into the guest room shortly after the intruder did?

[twinsrwe]

BTW, Franz, what is a parapet?

[Aamartin]

Abby visited Dr. Bowen, fearing she had been poisoned. Wouldn't she be hyper vigilant and very suspicious of a stranger coming to the door? Could she be lured out to the fence?

[PossumPie]

I believe Franz is using the word Parapet incorrectly (He is Chinese and English is his second or third language) He means the guy hid around the corner, and when the other guy drew Mrs. Borden out of the door, and down the steps to the sidewalk, the hidden guy sneaked up the steps, ducked into the house, and up the interior stairs. I have to agree with Aamartin. Having seen the actual set-up of the entrance, it would be unlikely that anyone could sneak behind Mrs. Borden and enter the house. NOT impossible, but unlikely.

BTW a parapet is a small raised barrier around a roof to keep people from falling off.

[Franz]

Franz, you also stated: At that moment, Lizzie was in her room, but she didn’t notice anything.

If Lizzie was in her room, how could she not have noticed that an intruder had gone into the guest room; especially, after Abby had to have gone up the stairs and into the guest room shortly after the intruder did?

In my theory, when Abby went to open the front door, Lizzie closed herself in her room with the door closed, maybe for her period matter.

Before Abby went upstairs and into the guest room, Lizzie had gone downstairs, she met Abby in the front hall, exchanged a few words with her (it was at that moment that Abby told her the note story). When Abby began to relock the door, Lizzie was going to the cellar to use the water closet.

Using "parapet" I mean the little wall (sorry for my English) at the side of the stairs. I discussed with a memeber of the forum, and concluded that it should be possible that the ground near the parapet might be a little higher than it is today.

[Darrowfan]

I think that Franz' theory is not an impossibility, but very close to it. Imagine the precision (and luck) the conspirators would have needed in order to pull off the crime in the way Franz describes.

[Franz]

I think that Franz' theory is not an impossibility, but very close to it. Imagine the precision (and luck) the conspirators would have needed in order to pull off the crime in the way Franz describes.

Yes, I agree that if the killer were an intruder, he should have been very, very, lucky! I think this is just the reason (at least one of those reasons) that the Borden case is so mysterious and remains unsolved. Some extraordinary things happend that morning, no matter who was the real killer, Lizzie or some one else.

[Franz]

This is the revised version of my theory.