How happy was Mrs Borden?

[snokkums]

I've always wondered just how happy and contented Mrs. Borden was in the house. I mean, with the daylight robberies going on, Lizzie and Emma not liking her and having a very unatinitive husband. She must have been totally miserable I'm thinking that in that day and age, there wasn't a lot of career opportunities for woman, so I am thinking that she just thought that this was her lot in life.

[PossumPie]

I've always wondered just how happy and contented Mrs. Borden was in the house. I mean, with the daylight robberies going on, Lizzie and Emma not liking her and having a very unatinitive husband. She must have been totally miserable I'm thinking that in that day and age, there wasn't a lot of career opportunities for woman, so I am thinking that she just thought that this was her lot in life.

Somewhere in the past few days I saw a statement that Abby Borden's sister made, that the girls mistreated and ignored Mrs. Borden, and that (Mrs. Borden) had more patience than she would have had.

[Allen]

The witness statements taken August 10, 1892, from the notes of Doherty and Harrington, page 13-14:

"We then went to Mrs. Geo. Whitehead, on Fourth street. "She said this property was owned in part by me and my mother. My mother wished to dispose of her interest. I could not purchase it, and did not want to sell; so in order that I might keep my place, Mrs. Borden, my step sister, bought the other interest. This the girls did not like; and they showed their feeling on the street by not recognizing me. Lizzie did not like Mrs. Borden."

Witness statments taken August 17, 1892, Doherty and Harrington, page 17:

"Harrington. Visited Mrs. Jane Gray, Mrs. Borden's step mother. Her statement," Things were not as pleasant at the Borden house as they might be. That is the reason I did not call on Mrs. Borden as often as I would have liked to. I told Mrs. Borden I would not change places with her for all her money. What I know about them is all hearsay. Mrs. Borden was a very closed mouthed woman. She would bear a great deal, and say nothing. She told me she and the girls were allowed an equal monthly allowance, but they they had more of it than I for I had to furnish the table coverings, towelling, and other small things out of the house out of mine."

[Aamartin]

I think her unhappiness may have extended past just Lizzie and Emma's treatment of her. How happy can any woman be who's husband refuses to pay for her to see a doctor when she feels she may have been poisoned?

[Allen]

I do happen to think that Andrew was extremely frugal with his money. Maybe a bit miserly. I think it was the way he was raised. But he does appear capable of making gestures that show he did care about his family. Lizzie's grand tour of Europe. Buying the half house for Abby's family so they could keep their home. He bought the girls their own property after they made a fuss, and when they couldn't take care of it he bought it back from them for FAR more than he owed. He did send Emma away to college. Lizzie took music lessons. They had a summer home in Swansea. And maybe many more instances we don't know about. It seems to be a six of one half dozen of the other type situation, in my opinion.

[PossumPie]

They had mutton for several days. It was going bad, and he didn't want to waste the last of it. They all got a touch of food poisoning and he knew it, maybe felt guilty. He knew it wasn't anything the doctor could do, so refused to pay for her to go and waste his money. Back then people got sick from food much more than today, and it wasn't the front page news story it is today. Part of why people used spices was to disguise the spoilage. You took your chances. Today, people freaking throw away half their groceries b/c it is "past the expiration date" Still perfectly good food. We waste so much in this country. That is my theory, Because I am a tight wad, and that is exactly what I would have done too...

BTW, many People who have money got it BECAUSE they were frugal. It's strange how this country has gone from looking up to people who have money, to making them into miserly villains who deserve to be taxed out of existence. To hear the president talk, any worthless piece of crap with a few dollars got it by exploiting his comrades. Andrew was a hard working, smart man who managed his money well. A little light in the affection department, I'll agree.

Ok, looking over this post I seem grouchy ...forgive me, but I'm leaving it the way it is...Sorry, I know many of you are liberals...

[Allen]

My problem with Andrew's frugality,why I call him miserly, is he did not refrain only from indulging in the luxury items. Gas lighting and running hot water were not extreme luxury items by that point. Fresh food on the table is not a luxury item. But they were to Andrew because he grew up without them. There was one faucet in the home with cold running water that had to be heated on the stove to do all the cooking, cleaning, and bathing. There was no gas lighting. He could have made their lives much easier, and more comfortable, but he chose not to go that route. Abby seems not to have minded any of it. The only quarrel I've seen her give about the household was not getting along with the girls. Many tout the fact that he did put in the radiator heating. I don't think that was splurging on luxury. The man was in his 70's. Who is going to be responsible for loading a coal or wood furnace, or wood for the fireplaces, in a house with elderly parents and two spoiled girl children? He could have had Bridget do it. But somehow I don't see him trusting the maid with keeping the house warm. In my opinion Lizzie's problems with his frugality were probably that they lived in a house that for her was not befitting her standing. One of the first things she changed after the murders. She lived in a house where she had two bedrooms, one for summer and one for winter, and a bath tub. She traveled to the opera in Boston. She had fine clothes. She had her own servants. She did not get to travel as she would have liked with Andrew alive.They only had one or two dresses made for them every so often. She did not get to throw parties. All things that changed after the murders. I have no doubt that Andrew loved his children and his wife. It's shown in the little acts and gestures that he made, in my opinion.

And summer complaint was indeed a very common illness back then. I own an 1892 home medical journal that describes summer complaint, it's causes, and ways to treat it. And mutton broth was one of the foods suggested to be eaten during this time. Easily digested broth. And because it was so common place I would bet it was not the first time that either one of them had suffered from it. If it was indeed summer complaint they suffered from. Many poisons mimic those same symptoms. Even today they know that poison can mimic the symptoms of food poisoning. If Abby had food poisoning before she then knew the signs. She would not have freaked out over summer complaint. I think something else was going on there. It was also Abby that instructed Bridget to use the mutton for the meal. I'm not sure they had been eating on the mutton for days as everyone thinks. I'm trying to find in testimony somewhere that Bridget stated they ate fish for dinner one day.

[PossumPie]

My problem with Andrew's frugality,why I call him miserly, is he did not refrain only from indulging in the luxury items. Gas lighting and running hot water were not extreme luxury items by that point. Fresh food on the table is not a luxury item. But they were to Andrew because he grew up without them. There was one faucet in the home with cold running water that had to be heated on the stove to do all the cooking, cleaning, and bathing. There was no gas lighting. He could have made their lives much easier, and more comfortable, but he chose not to go that route. Abby seems not to have minded any of it. The only quarrel I've seen her give about the household was not getting along with the girls. Many tout the fact that he did put in the radiator heating. I don't think that was splurging on luxury. The man was in his 70's. Who is going to be responsible for loading a coal or wood furnace, or wood for the fireplaces, in a house with elderly parents and two spoiled girl children? He could have had Bridget do it. But somehow I don't see him trusting the maid with keeping the house warm. In my opinion Lizzie's problems with his frugality were probably that they lived in a house that for her was not befitting her standing. One of the first things she changed after the murders. She lived in a house where she had two bedrooms, one for summer and one for winter, and a bath tub. She traveled to the opera in Boston. She had fine clothes. She had her own servants. She did not get to travel as she would have liked with Andrew alive.They only had one or two dresses made for them every so often. She did not get to throw parties. All things that changed after the murders. I have no doubt that Andrew loved his children and his wife. It's shown in the little acts and gestures that he made, in my opinion.

And summer complaint was indeed a very common illness back then. I own an 1892 home medical journal that describes summer complaint, it's causes, and ways to treat it. And mutton broth was one of the foods suggested to be eaten during this time. Easily digested broth. And because it was so common place I would bet it was not the first time that either one of them had suffered from it. If it was indeed summer complaint they suffered from. Many poisons mimic those same symptoms. Even today they know that poison can mimic the symptoms of food poisoning. If Abby had food poisoning before she then knew the signs. She would not have freaked out over summer complaint. I think something else was going on there. It was also Abby that instructed Bridget to use the mutton for the meal. I'm not sure they had been eating on the mutton for days as everyone thinks. I'm trying to find in testimony somewhere that Bridget stated they ate fish for dinner one day.

True, food poison mimics other poison. Perhaps Mrs. Borden thought it was deliberate poison not b/c of the symptoms necessarily, but b/c Lizzie kept going on and on about someone trying to poison them? I bet Mr. Borden thought all of the women were just paranoid about poison. They never found any trace of poison in any of them, BUT some poisons back then couldn't be traced, so it is possible.

[Aamartin]

I guess judging Abby's happiness is 100% subjective. If I was with someone who refused to let me see a doctor-- I would not be happy.

I think this is something we can't really judge in these times. Things were vastly different in 1892.

[Aamartin]

BTW, many People who have money got it BECAUSE they were frugal. It's strange how this country has gone from looking up to people who have money, to making them into miserly villains who deserve to be taxed out of existence. To hear the president talk, any worthless piece of crap with a few dollars got it by exploiting his comrades. Andrew was a hard working, smart man who managed his money well. A little light in the affection department, I'll agree.

So very true. My (late) next door neighbors were very frugal-- and saved a great deal. They drove old cars, had old furniture, etc-- but they did keep their home in perfect repair-- but would, like Andrew-- keep/save anything useful.

It's sad-- when they died-- they left it all to their kids-- who blew through it like it was water.

[Allen]

I guess judging Abby's happiness is 100% subjective. If I was with someone who refused to let me see a doctor-- I would not be happy.

I think this is something we can't really judge in these times. Things were vastly different in 1892.

It's true we can't know for sure how happy Abby was in her marriage. There is very little evidence either way. They seemed happy enough together. We can assume from all of the testimony she was not happy with her relationship with the girls. I think everyone will agree they tried to make Abby miserable. We also only have one instance where Andrew said his money wouldn't pay for a doctor visit. We don't know if this was the norm from that one instance. But if he did believe it was nothing more than what they called 'summer complaint' it was pretty common. I'm sure anyone would pretty much know what a doctor would tell you to do to treat it. Which is maybe why he said his money wouldn't pay for a doctor visit. Or maybe he didn't want his wife out spouting off to the family doctor about being poisoned. Maybe he didn't want the word spreading. I believe Abby thought something more was going on. I don't think she took her visit to the doctor lightly. Especially after Andrew was so adamant about her not going. Maybe Lizzie's talk about being poisoned got her scared. Or maybe they were being poisoned.

[Aamartin]

I never thought of the fact that he didn't want the reasons of her complaint shared... Very good point. Especially when one thinks about his eventual reaction to the daylight robbery.

Thanks for giving me a new way of considering this particular incident

[Allen]

History of Fall River, Massachusetts, comp. for the Cotton Centennial by Henry M. Fenner, under the direction of the Historical Committee of the Merchants Association - 1911.

Some information that I found interesting.

[Darrowfan]

I remember being very moved by a remark made by someone who knew Abby. Perhaps someone can remind me of where I read it, the Witness Statements, perhaps? Anyway, this lady said that "Abby tried to win the love of her step-daughters, but without success." That may not be the exact statement, but something like it. I felt it was a very poignant remark.

I get the feeling that Abby wanted Lizzie and Emma to love her, but they simply closed their hearts to her. I'm sure Abby found that very painful.

[PossumPie]

I remember being very moved by a remark made by someone who knew Abby. Perhaps someone can remind me of where I read it, the Witness Statements, perhaps? Anyway, this lady said that "Abby tried to win the love of her step-daughters, but without success." That may not be the exact statement, but something like it. I felt it was a very poignant remark.

I get the feeling that Abby wanted Lizzie and Emma to love her, but they simply closed their hearts to her. I'm sure Abby found that very painful.

I believe that no matter who you thought killed Mrs. Borden, she was the innocent party who seemed to be emotionally ignored by at the least the girls, and perhaps even by Mr. Borden also.

[Aamartin]

I remember being very moved by a remark made by someone who knew Abby. Perhaps someone can remind me of where I read it, the Witness Statements, perhaps? Anyway, this lady said that "Abby tried to win the love of her step-daughters, but without success." That may not be the exact statement, but something like it. I felt it was a very poignant remark.

I get the feeling that Abby wanted Lizzie and Emma to love her, but they simply closed their hearts to her. I'm sure Abby found that very painful.

I think Abby went into the marriage thinking she would have a family of her own. A successful husband and 2 daughters to love. She made a point of making pies she knew those in her family especially liked-- why wouldn't she have been the same way towards Emma and Lizzie?

Of all the victims of this crime, I feel for Abby the most.

[Aamartin]

I remember being very moved by a remark made by someone who knew Abby. Perhaps someone can remind me of where I read it, the Witness Statements, perhaps? Anyway, this lady said that "Abby tried to win the love of her step-daughters, but without success." That may not be the exact statement, but something like it. I felt it was a very poignant remark.

I get the feeling that Abby wanted Lizzie and Emma to love her, but they simply closed their hearts to her. I'm sure Abby found that very painful.

I believe that no matter who you thought killed Mrs. Borden, she was the innocent party who seemed to be emotionally ignored by at the least the girls, and perhaps even by Mr. Borden also.

I couldn't agree more.

[Franz]

I remember being very moved by a remark made by someone who knew Abby. Perhaps someone can remind me of where I read it, the Witness Statements, perhaps? Anyway, this lady said that "Abby tried to win the love of her step-daughters, but without success." That may not be the exact statement, but something like it. I felt it was a very poignant remark.

I get the feeling that Abby wanted Lizzie and Emma to love her, but they simply closed their hearts to her. I'm sure Abby found that very painful.

I believe that no matter who you thought killed Mrs. Borden, she was the innocent party who seemed to be emotionally ignored by at the least the girls, and perhaps even by Mr. Borden also.

I couldn't agree more.

Me too.

[Allen]

I agree. Abby didn't have the love of the two daughters that she helped to raise. They went out of their way to make her life more complicated and make her miserable. They didn't associate with Abby's family. It does appear that Abby was close with her own family though. But they didn't come around to visit much because of the tension in the Borden household. Even Andrew's family seems to have stayed away. They were the subject of much gossip because of what went on in that house. I wonder how that affected Abby. We really can't say for sure what the dynamics of the relationship was between Abby and Andrew. She does seem to have lead a sort of sad existence in that house as far as having a support system. It's no wonder she reached out to the maid and developed a liking for Bridget. She spent most of her allowance money fixing up the house and trying to keep it nice for people that didn't appreciate it. They wouldn't even take their meals with her and sit down at the same table.

[EmmaLenora]

Hello, everyone! It's nice to meet you. :)

I ponder this question a great deal: "How happy was Mrs. Borden?"

Oh, life is tough enough as it is. Living life with two spinster step-daughters who refuse to leave the home, in a psychological power-struggle, must be incredibly distressing.

I imagine a young Abby Durfee Gray, full of hope, as most young women are. I imagine the years passing her by, and that hope dimming. That hope becoming nearly extinct as each passing birthday summed up one word: Spinster.

I imagine a flicker, molding that hopelessness into the possibility of "All is not lost" when she encountered Andrew Jackson Borden. The idealist in me wonders how much Abby convinced herself that a life with Andrew and his two daughters would be the most defining moment in her existence. At the age of 37, convincing herself would be easy.

The first time Abby ever met Emma, I wonder how much doubt she intuited? Surely it reared its ugly head. At the age of 14 when she first met Abby, Emma was a young woman with a great deal of responsibility, possessing a deeply-rooted sense of taking care of her father and younger sister that only the loss of a mother could instill into her psyche. The threat of Abby's presence must have been palpable. A 14 year-old girl has little logical reasoning over her emotions. Then and now.

But there had to have been something MORE to Emma's psyche. A thing of abnormalcy. A frantic grasp of control, combined with a maniacal determination to never give in. A seed taking root, growing. A seed to sacrfice one's own happiness to make sure another human being will never know the joy of being happy. That is the most insidious sacrifice of all.

Abby would have been very aware of this, but she was clouded by hope in the very beginning. The silent truth of things to come would have been dismissed by Abby. Most of us would have done the same thing if we were in her shoes. We all have a way of silencing that voice inside of us. Ignoring intuition is a flaw every human possesses. There's no way she could have ever known that by ignoring that voice, she sealed her fate with the blade of a hatchet.

There was impending doom from the very start, a doom that escalated and became a living, breathing thing; an invisible member in the Borden household that depleted everyone of joy, of contentment, of happiness. It was a beast that needed feeding on a daily basis. Its appetite infinite. The beast had its fill on August 4, 1892.

Whatever happiness Abby Borden knew in her life had been slowly suffocated over the years. So much so that it was the ghost of a complete stranger, a victim of circumstances and a victim of choices. A victim of Andrew, of Emma, and of Lizzie.

Delving into the dynamics of the human mind is a favorite past-time of mine. I wrote this of Abby Borden, as it pertains to "happiness." She was not living, she was only existing.

Abby lies in bed, aware that it's morning, but not wanting to face the day. She's on her back, staring straight at the ceiling. She hears the rustling of Bridget downstairs in the kitchen. She knows that she needs to get up soon. Her bedroom is old-fashioned looking for 1892, but she doesn't mind. She quite likes the dark wood tones and bold, floral patterns in rich jewel tones. This is the one room where she has complete authority in decor. That little thought is satisfying to her. She glances at Andrew, who is softly snoring next to her. There is no love or affection in her eyes, it's just simply an acknowledgement that he's there. Abby is deep in thought, reflecting about her life.

She is a sad and isolated woman, made to feel like an unwelcome stranger in her own home. At first, she felt the hostility directed toward her was to be expected, and in Abby's mindset of low-self esteem, to be deserved. She felt guilty taking Sarah Borden's position as wife and mother. All of her attempts to be civil and kind were squashed by Emma. However, it did not break Abby's heart. There was something about Emma that Abby distrusted and disliked. Something way below the surface that Abby's intuition told her was unsafe. To not get too close. She felt, however, that she could be a mother to Lizzie. This lasted a moment, before it was apparent that Emma would not allow it.

What did break Abby's heart, for awhile, was the fact that Lizzie was not allowed to form her own opinion about Abby. That her mind and heart were poisoned from the very beginning. Abby always felt she had to prove that she was a good person, that she was worthy of being treated like a human being, so she tolerated the emotional abuse, the tantrums, the icy stares, the silence, and the blatant disregard for the initial years after becoming a Borden.

After many years, it was evident that things were never going to change and Abby tired of being a doormat. She tired of Andrew claiming that all three of them were silly, petty creatures. She tired of his daily requests for them to just "rise above."

She couldn't rise above, so she stooped to a level she didn't know existed inside of her.

She attempted to discipline. The girls laughed at her.

She attempted to set straight. The girls laughed at her.

She attempted consequences for harsh actions and words. The girls laughed at her.

Suddenly standing up for herself and bucking up against her step-daughters' intolerance was gratifying, even though it accomplished nothing. Just the thought of being silent and continuing to bite her tongue made her sick to her stomach, so after years of misery, Abby forgot all about being silent. It was a war; a power struggle. 92 2nd Street was a battle zone, and Abby refused to give Emma or Lizzie any satisfaction. The mutual extroverted animosity was a speeding locomotive headed straight for a collision with a brick wall.

This was life.

Abby slowly sits up in bed, lingers on the edge for awhile, sighs, and stands up.

[Aamartin]

Hello, everyone! It's nice to meet you. :)

I ponder this question a great deal: "How happy was Mrs. Borden?"

Oh, life is tough enough as it is. Living life with two spinster step-daughters who refuse to leave the home, in a psychological power-struggle, must be incredibly distressing.

I imagine a young Abby Durfee Gray, full of hope, as most young women are. I imagine the years passing her by, and that hope dimming. That hope becoming nearly extinct as each passing birthday summed up one word: Spinster.

I imagine a flicker, molding that hopelessness into the possibility of "All is not lost" when she encountered Andrew Jackson Borden. The idealist in me wonders how much Abby convinced herself that a life with Andrew and his two daughters would be the most defining moment in her existence. At the age of 37, convincing herself would be easy.

The first time Abby ever met Emma, I wonder how much doubt she intuited? Surely it reared its ugly head. At the age of 14 when she first met Abby, Emma was a young woman with a great deal of responsibility, possessing a deeply-rooted sense of taking care of her father and younger sister that only the loss of a mother could instill into her psyche. The threat of Abby's presence must have been palpable. A 14 year-old girl has little logical reasoning over her emotions. Then and now.

But there had to have been something MORE to Emma's psyche. A thing of abnormalcy. A frantic grasp of control, combined with a maniacal determination to never give in. A seed taking root, growing. A seed to sacrfice one's own happiness to make sure another human being will never know the joy of being happy. That is the most insidious sacrifice of all.

Abby would have been very aware of this, but she was clouded by hope in the very beginning. The silent truth of things to come would have been dismissed by Abby. Most of us would have done the same thing if we were in her shoes. We all have a way of silencing that voice inside of us. Ignoring intuition is a flaw every human possesses. There's no way she could have ever known that by ignoring that voice, she sealed her fate with the blade of a hatchet.

There was impending doom from the very start, a doom that escalated and became a living, breathing thing; an invisible member in the Borden household that depleted everyone of joy, of contentment, of happiness. It was a beast that needed feeding on a daily basis. Its appetite infinite. The beast had its fill on August 4, 1892.

Whatever happiness Abby Borden knew in her life had been slowly suffocated over the years. So much so that it was the ghost of a complete stranger, a victim of circumstances and a victim of choices. A victim of Andrew, of Emma, and of Lizzie.

Delving into the dynamics of the human mind is a favorite past-time of mine. I wrote this of Abby Borden, as it pertains to "happiness." She was not living, she was only existing.

Abby lies in bed, aware that it's morning, but not wanting to face the day. She's on her back, staring straight at the ceiling. She hears the rustling of Bridget downstairs in the kitchen. She knows that she needs to get up soon. Her bedroom is old-fashioned looking for 1892, but she doesn't mind. She quite likes the dark wood tones and bold, floral patterns in rich jewel tones. This is the one room where she has complete authority in decor. That little thought is satisfying to her. She glances at Andrew, who is softly snoring next to her. There is no love or affection in her eyes, it's just simply an acknowledgement that he's there. Abby is deep in thought, reflecting about her life.

She is a sad and isolated woman, made to feel like an unwelcome stranger in her own home. At first, she felt the hostility directed toward her was to be expected, and in Abby's mindset of low-self esteem, to be deserved. She felt guilty taking Sarah Borden's position as wife and mother. All of her attempts to be civil and kind were squashed by Emma. However, it did not break Abby's heart. There was something about Emma that Abby distrusted and disliked. Something way below the surface that Abby's intuition told her was unsafe. To not get too close. She felt, however, that she could be a mother to Lizzie. This lasted a moment, before it was apparent that Emma would not allow it.

What did break Abby's heart, for awhile, was the fact that Lizzie was not allowed to form her own opinion about Abby. That her mind and heart were poisoned from the very beginning. Abby always felt she had to prove that she was a good person, that she was worthy of being treated like a human being, so she tolerated the emotional abuse, the tantrums, the icy stares, the silence, and the blatant disregard for the initial years after becoming a Borden.

After many years, it was evident that things were never going to change and Abby tired of being a doormat. She tired of Andrew claiming that all three of them were silly, petty creatures. She tired of his daily requests for them to just "rise above."

She couldn't rise above, so she stooped to a level she didn't know existed inside of her.

She attempted to discipline. The girls laughed at her.

She attempted to set straight. The girls laughed at her.

She attempted consequences for harsh actions and words. The girls laughed at her.

Suddenly standing up for herself and bucking up against her step-daughters' intolerance was gratifying, even though it accomplished nothing. Just the thought of being silent and continuing to bite her tongue made her sick to her stomach, so after years of misery, Abby forgot all about being silent. It was a war; a power struggle. 92 2nd Street was a battle zone, and Abby refused to give Emma or Lizzie any satisfaction. The mutual extroverted animosity was a speeding locomotive headed straight for a collision with a brick wall.

This was life.

Abby slowly sits up in bed, lingers on the edge for awhile, sighs, and stands up.

Very interesting read

[PossumPie]

EmmaLenora, while it is interesting, and you put a lot of thought in it, it seems there is a fair amount of projection in your idea. What I mean is that people interpret the world through the filters of their own experiences and world view. All of us do it.. I have known people who look at poor Appalachian women who stay home all day, do massive amounts of work, have no nice things, don't go to a restaurant ever, and say, Oh, they must be so sad, so down-trodden. BUT, most are not. Most are happy, have their own little pleasures, a sunset, a flower, and go on with their lives. It is hard to see the admittedly difficult situation of raising Emma and Lizzie and not say to ourselves "oh she wept over the lonely existence, but other than everyone saying the girls treated her roughly, we have no other idea of Mrs. Borden's happiness. I know biological moms who's kids HATE them, but despite this, they have otherwise fulfilled, happy lives. I just don't think we have enough to go on except the MANY people who say it was a rough home without much love, and they didn't live there...

[Allen]

It's interesting to see what everyone here thinks about what Abby's life may have been like. There were a few of those people back then who said that all was not well in the Borden household who had lived with the Borden family for a time. Hiram Harrington lived with the Borden family at the Ferry Street house. John Morse lived with them for over a year that we know of and stayed there quite often. Andrew's family had all lived together at the Ferry Street house and a few members of the Morse family had lived in the same home with the Borden family. I do believe there were people who were in a position to know more about the family dynamics. These were the days when family members could show up and stay for weeks to visit and nobody thought twice about it. Yet nobody did visit often at the Borden home. Many family members from both sides made a point of staying away because of what went on there. If family doesn't even want to visit, I cannot imagine what it must have been like to live there. I'm not saying Abby had no happiness at all ever in her life. But I do think it had to be a little lonely living in that home. The constant battles with children can be quite wearing on a parent and can bleed over into other aspects of their life. And most biological parents today are not still supporting their two 30-40+ year old children who hate them. Those children usually move out and the parents get some peace and quiet in their own home.

[Franz]

Welcome, EmmaLenora.

[PossumPie]

It's interesting to see what everyone here thinks about what Abby's life may have been like. There were a few of those people back then who said that all was not well in the Borden household who had lived with the Borden family for a time. Hiram Harrington lived with the Borden family at the Ferry Street house. John Morse lived with them for over a year that we know of and stayed there quite often. Andrew's family had all lived together at the Ferry Street house and a few members of the Morse family had lived in the same home with the Borden family. I do believe there were people who were in a position to know more about the family dynamics. These were the days when family members could show up and stay for weeks to visit and nobody thought twice about it. Yet nobody did visit often at the Borden home. Many family members from both sides made a point of staying away because of what went on there. If family doesn't even want to visit, I cannot imagine what it must have been like to live there. I'm not saying Abby had no happiness at all ever in her life. But I do think it had to be a little lonely living in that home. The constant battles with children can be quite wearing on a parent and can bleed over into other aspects of their life. And most biological parents today are not still supporting their two 30-40+ year old children who hate them. Those children usually move out and the parents get some peace and quiet in their own home.

Do we know there were constant battles? I understood most of the testimony to say Emma and Lizzie pretty much did their own thing, ignored her, didn't even eat with her. I don't read much about actual fighting EXCEPT that incident where Andrew gave Abby's family the house. I bet there were some raised voices that night!

[Allen]

We don't know conclusively that there were constant battles. But Lizzie stopped calling Abby mother after that incident with the half house. I am going to bet if things blew that far out of proportion because of a kindness that Andrew did of his own free will that it probably wasn't the first incident. They persisted in their complaints until he bought them property of their own. Which they didn't take care of and which he bought back at a great profit for the girls. They found it too much trouble to keep the property up and collect their own rents on a property that was given as a gift, if only to shut them up. If Lizzie truly was the one who broke into her parents room and stole their things that is pretty telling also. That is a terribly spiteful act. Things don't usually escalate to stealing from your parents and ignoring them outright for no reason overnight. Abby got the idea of being poisoned from somewhere. Since Lizzie is the only other family member spouting off about poison I'm going to guess it was her who convinced Abby someone was trying to harm them. They spent most of their time ignoring Abby. Lizzie told the dressmaker, among other things, that Abby was a mean good for nothing thing and not to refer to Abby as her mother. That she avoided her if she could help it and didn't take meals with them. Things don't usually get to that point without some battling going on.

[Aamartin]

Constant undercurrents of hostility and dislike are worse than a full blown argument/flare up once in a while.