Two Mothers on Mother's Day

[debbiediablo]

Happy Mother's Day.gif

I often wonder what might have happened had Sarah survived. Would Lizzie or Emma or John or whomever have killed both Andrew and Sarah or would the world have been a happy place for the two sisters. I doubt that Sarah's presence would've made one iota of difference in the lack of modern plumbing and electricity in the house, but then Lizzie and Emma would not have been worried about the family money ending up in the hands of someone other than them.

My understanding is that Sarah had cyclical moods, and she looks less pleasant and more unbalanced than Abby in their photos. Maybe she and Lizzie would've been at each others' throats as much or more than Lizzie and Abby. (Anyone who has ever known a household with an uncontrolled mentally ill mother and daughter will know what I mean...and yes, I do think Lizzie had some form of mental illness. )

How fair is it to exact a deathbed promise from a child the age of Emma?

Do we tend to make Sarah into the dear departed heroine and Abby into the wicked step-mother. Is this supported by fact or have we all watched Disney's Cinderella one too many times. My father remarried after my mother died, and I got the best-ever step-mother.

Was Andrew truly in love with either of them. Was he even capable of being in love with anything other than money.

Happy Mother's Day to all you mothers and step-mothers out there. (Yes, there's something about this puppy that reminds me of Skipper... )

[Curryong]

What a cute picture! Yes it does remind me of Skipper, too.
Had Sarah survived I, like you, believe that, with Andrew in charge of the finances, the facilities at No. 92 would have remained. Of course we don't know what condition, if any, Sarah suffered from. It might have been a form of epilepsy perhaps, not very well understood in the 19th century, or something else entirely.

If Lizzie did inherit any mental condition from her mother, or simply inherited a propensity for the sulks or sudden violent temper, the atmosphere in the Borden household might have been strained, to say the least. There's always the possibility, of course, that, as the girls grew up, they might have felt the importance of keeping things pleasant in case Mother had one of her 'turns'. It's hard to think of Lizzie growing up as meek and mild and colourless as Emma,(outwardly, anyway) but that may have been the result of years of restraint.

Certainly, the sense of entitlement and resentment that Lizzie showed towards Abby wouldn't be there, but there might have been other hidden antagonisms.

I think it is very unfair (if understandable) to commit someone to a deathbed promise. My mother, who died when I was eleven, extracted a promise from my father that he would not leave my widowed grandmother (her mother) alone. He kept his promise until she developed Altzheimer's.

In Sarah's case, in 19th century terms 14year olds were regarded as almost adult and little Lizzie was only a baby. Sarah, no doubt, expected that Andrew, in the fullness of time, would marry again. I really don't think that she imagined that Emma would be quite so conscientious in keeping her vow, even when a new stepmother arrived!

With regard to Sarah, I think from all I've read from posters on this forum, she's an almost forgotten figure in the background, only noted as the biological mother of Emma and Lizzie, and a woman of seemingly peculiar moods. I've never, in any books or on the Forum read anyone who didn't have some sympathy at least, for Abby. She isn't as colourful a character as Lizzie or Andrew. She is a little faded, in the scheme of things, a bit like Emma.

Did Andrew love Sarah and Abby? I think he was in love with Sarah, though whether she turned out to be quite the helpmate in making his fortune that Abby was, is open for debate. I believe he loved Abby though he may not have been IN love with her. There is no evidence of a bad relationship between husband and wife, though I doubt there was much passion there!

[irina]

As I recall Victoria Lincoln in her book stated that Sarah Morse Borden had severe migraine. Ms. Lincoln further tried to make the connexion that migraine and epilepsy are similar and run in families. This was the book that suggested Lizzie had an epileptic condition that flared during her menstrual periods and that she committed the murders in a "brown out", when she functioned but didn't really know what she was doing.

Migraine is extremely genetic and there can be increased incidences of epilepsy, depression and some other co-morbidities in families with migraine. Some forms of migraine can seem like mental illness. It is said that Lewis Carroll had that kind of migraine and Alice in Wonderland describes his experiences with migraine. I have severe, chronic migraine and Harry Potter doesn't seem all that magical to me as some of his experiences seem fairly normal in my world. (Though this has been discussed I know of no definitive tie between J. K. Rowling and migraine.)

Also in considering marital relationships in Victorian times, it is quite possible that many successful couples had good partnerships in the workload of those days, and good friendships between husband and wife that were enriched through mutual respect and support in a world where life was a lot tougher than we are used to. "Love" and "falling in love" as we know it, I believe was not the same in those days. Money, security, social status, health and many other issues were more part of the love equation then than now. Now couples fall in love, get married, live together or whatever and work out the details later.

[Curryong]

Hello, irina, and welcome! Yes, in the absence of a welfare state, there was a great difference in the attitude towards marriage, wasn't there? And, of course, men often waited for marriage until they could support a wife. Ironically. Andrew ended up extremely prosperous but hated the thought of 'waste,' keeping his wife and daughters on small allowances.