Lizzie goes to Europe.
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- Curryong
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Lizzie goes to Europe.
I wanted to post a few things about Lizzie's trip overseas, not necessarily for comment, unless anyone wants to (hint, hint) but because, as far as I know, this episode in Lizzie Borden's life hasn't been examined much.
From Parallel Lives (yes it arrived yesterday) Quotes from Pages 236-246.
According to the writers of Parallel Lives Lizzie's work with the Central Congregational Church probably earned her a place among the ladies who were going to make the trip, as the womenfolk from some of the most socially prominent families attended the Church and did charity work under its auspices.
However, a Mrs William Davol Jnr, who apparently knew 'everyone who mattered' in Fall River wrote to her daughter in April 1890,
'Nelly (Ellen M) Shove, Elizabeth A Borden' (Lizzie) '( I don't know who she is) Anna H. Borden and Carrie (Caroline L) Borden are going to Europe with Miss (Hannah) Mowry this summer.' Ouch!!
Miss Mowry was apparently travelling in Europe already and would go on a side trip to Scandinavia later. She was a popular chaperone to all the other unmarried ladies and was yet another school teacher. They keep bobbing up in the Lizzie Borden story.
Lizzie is described on her passport (issued on June 5th 1890) as 'having a medium forehead, a straight nose, a medium mouth and a pointed chin.Her 'full' face bears a light complexion, her hair is light brown and her eyes gray. Anna Borden is a '...blue eyed thirty two year old..described as having grey hair.' Anna Borden, according to her testimony at the trial, had known Lizzie for five years, Lizzie had been confirmed at the First Congregationalist Church five years previously.
Ellen Shove was the daughter of a wealthy businessman who was active in charitable pursuits, with the Baptist Church, in her case. In 1874 Ellen and her family moved to an elegant new mansion in Highland Avenue. Her father sold his former land to the Congregationalist Church 'for their new edifice' and the former Shove home was 'relocated to the corner of High and French Streets, Fall River. Emma and Lizzie took a look at this house when they about to buy on 'the Hill' many years later.
From Parallel Lives (yes it arrived yesterday) Quotes from Pages 236-246.
According to the writers of Parallel Lives Lizzie's work with the Central Congregational Church probably earned her a place among the ladies who were going to make the trip, as the womenfolk from some of the most socially prominent families attended the Church and did charity work under its auspices.
However, a Mrs William Davol Jnr, who apparently knew 'everyone who mattered' in Fall River wrote to her daughter in April 1890,
'Nelly (Ellen M) Shove, Elizabeth A Borden' (Lizzie) '( I don't know who she is) Anna H. Borden and Carrie (Caroline L) Borden are going to Europe with Miss (Hannah) Mowry this summer.' Ouch!!
Miss Mowry was apparently travelling in Europe already and would go on a side trip to Scandinavia later. She was a popular chaperone to all the other unmarried ladies and was yet another school teacher. They keep bobbing up in the Lizzie Borden story.
Lizzie is described on her passport (issued on June 5th 1890) as 'having a medium forehead, a straight nose, a medium mouth and a pointed chin.Her 'full' face bears a light complexion, her hair is light brown and her eyes gray. Anna Borden is a '...blue eyed thirty two year old..described as having grey hair.' Anna Borden, according to her testimony at the trial, had known Lizzie for five years, Lizzie had been confirmed at the First Congregationalist Church five years previously.
Ellen Shove was the daughter of a wealthy businessman who was active in charitable pursuits, with the Baptist Church, in her case. In 1874 Ellen and her family moved to an elegant new mansion in Highland Avenue. Her father sold his former land to the Congregationalist Church 'for their new edifice' and the former Shove home was 'relocated to the corner of High and French Streets, Fall River. Emma and Lizzie took a look at this house when they about to buy on 'the Hill' many years later.
- SteveS.
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
I hate to comment further since I don't want to reveal what so many of you haven't read yet in your new copies of Parallel Lives. But things weren't much better for Lizzie at the church reception to welcome the young ladies home after the Grand Tour of Europe. Seems Lizzie was always just on the outskirts, looking in, but never really fully allowed into the inner circle. Sad in a way.
In memory of....Laddie Miller, Royal Nelson and Donald Stewart, Lizzie Borden's dogs. "Sleeping Awhile."
- Curryong
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
After Lizzie returned home she splashed out on two 'deluxe Howard Albums with 'Interchangeable Cards' substantial volumes in burgundy fabric, with stiff durable pages for mounting the images'. Into these albums she posted 'at least 168 high quality photographs.
Underneath, Lizzie wrote comments and descriptions, in pencil first then pen and on straight penciled lines which were then rubbed out. Some were from her Baedeker guide book. She quoted Byron, Hawthorne, Shakespeare and Mark Twain.
Underneath a photo of the Ponte di Rialto in Venice, with its gondoliers she wrote, from Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice',
Signor Antonio, many a time and oft
In the Rialto you have rated me
About my money and my usances.
In Ireland Lizzie's party visited many castles, including Ross and Blarney (though I don't think she kissed the Blarney Stone.) and the 15th century Muckross Abbey. She saw wonderful well known scenery and bought a picture of a dog with puppies.
In Scotland, more castles and 'the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond' and many spots connected with Sir Walter Scott, an influential and popular author in the 19th century. (The party undoubtedly visited Edinburgh though Parallel Lives doesn't say so.
In England they visited Stratford on Avon, the Lake District, the ancient university city of Oxford, Canterbury castle, Warwick and Kenilworth, Windsor, Leicester and Hawarden Castles. (Nowadays, many castles are open to the public. In those days the unruined ones were often private homes. I wonder whether they just looked at the outside or whether there was an occasional Public open day?)
Then it was on to Holland, where they stayed in a luxury resort hotel, Kurhaus at Scheveningen and Amsterdam. They visited Germany, including Heidelberg Castle and 'the Little Goose-man fountain in Nuremberg, Cologne Cathedral and then the fairytale castles of Bavaria as well as the city of Munich. The party stayed at Innsbruck in Austria.
In Switzerland they travelled the Gotthard Pass, Interlaken near the Jungfrau mountains, Lake Locarno, the famed Clock Tower at Berne and the Alps, including the Rhone Glacier.
Thus ended Lizzie's first album with 52 photographs and comments and photographs of her favourite works of art.
Underneath, Lizzie wrote comments and descriptions, in pencil first then pen and on straight penciled lines which were then rubbed out. Some were from her Baedeker guide book. She quoted Byron, Hawthorne, Shakespeare and Mark Twain.
Underneath a photo of the Ponte di Rialto in Venice, with its gondoliers she wrote, from Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice',
Signor Antonio, many a time and oft
In the Rialto you have rated me
About my money and my usances.
In Ireland Lizzie's party visited many castles, including Ross and Blarney (though I don't think she kissed the Blarney Stone.) and the 15th century Muckross Abbey. She saw wonderful well known scenery and bought a picture of a dog with puppies.
In Scotland, more castles and 'the bonnie, bonnie banks of Loch Lomond' and many spots connected with Sir Walter Scott, an influential and popular author in the 19th century. (The party undoubtedly visited Edinburgh though Parallel Lives doesn't say so.
In England they visited Stratford on Avon, the Lake District, the ancient university city of Oxford, Canterbury castle, Warwick and Kenilworth, Windsor, Leicester and Hawarden Castles. (Nowadays, many castles are open to the public. In those days the unruined ones were often private homes. I wonder whether they just looked at the outside or whether there was an occasional Public open day?)
Then it was on to Holland, where they stayed in a luxury resort hotel, Kurhaus at Scheveningen and Amsterdam. They visited Germany, including Heidelberg Castle and 'the Little Goose-man fountain in Nuremberg, Cologne Cathedral and then the fairytale castles of Bavaria as well as the city of Munich. The party stayed at Innsbruck in Austria.
In Switzerland they travelled the Gotthard Pass, Interlaken near the Jungfrau mountains, Lake Locarno, the famed Clock Tower at Berne and the Alps, including the Rhone Glacier.
Thus ended Lizzie's first album with 52 photographs and comments and photographs of her favourite works of art.
- Curryong
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
Hello SteveS! I'm cherry picking my way through this large book at the moment to post, but yes I did read that. Sad indeed, always the outsider looking in!
When Lizzie returned home she and the other, much more socially prominent Miss Bordens, who were her fellow travellers, were treated to a 'welcome home 'in the North Parlour of the Congregational Church complex, a reception given them by 'the Social Committee of the Young People's Pastoral Aid Society'. (It doesn't sound like a Lizzie charity, probably connected to one of the other Miss Bordens!)
A good time was apparently had by all, plenty of food and drink (non-alcoholic beverages.)
However, when it came town to go home, according to a letter written by attendee Charles Wells to his aunt, he finishes his very detailed account with
'President Booth, after much coaxing on the part of Miss J '(Johnson) 'asked permission to see two of the Miss B's home and it was graciously granted.' This jocular tone is brought to a bit of an abrupt end with 'Fred did the polite thing for Miss Lizzie Borden.'
When Lizzie returned home she and the other, much more socially prominent Miss Bordens, who were her fellow travellers, were treated to a 'welcome home 'in the North Parlour of the Congregational Church complex, a reception given them by 'the Social Committee of the Young People's Pastoral Aid Society'. (It doesn't sound like a Lizzie charity, probably connected to one of the other Miss Bordens!)
A good time was apparently had by all, plenty of food and drink (non-alcoholic beverages.)
However, when it came town to go home, according to a letter written by attendee Charles Wells to his aunt, he finishes his very detailed account with
'President Booth, after much coaxing on the part of Miss J '(Johnson) 'asked permission to see two of the Miss B's home and it was graciously granted.' This jocular tone is brought to a bit of an abrupt end with 'Fred did the polite thing for Miss Lizzie Borden.'
- MysteryReader
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
I do recall reading that. Lizzie was indeed related to the other Miss Bordens (distant cousins) and it was said that Lizzie was extremely shy so that's why she always appeared to be on the outskirts, looking in. I think it was a sad way to live life. I'm shy, too but I do have friends who include me, regardless of whether I participate. I wonder if that is why she allegedly stole items from stores- looking for attention.
- Curryong
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
I do think Lizzie was accepted to a certain extent, ( because of her work with the Church and her lady-like demeanour) otherwise she wouldn't have been allowed to travel with the daughters of the elite in the way that she was. They wouldn't have asked her or would have excluded her if she asked if she could go. (I think they asked her.)
Yes, Lizzie was related to Anna Borden, they shared a great, great, grandfather in common and it was the same, I think, with Caroline Borden. In the book it refers to Anna giving testimony at the trial about conversations the pair had on the trip, and how Lizzie spoke of her 'unhappy home'. That testimony wasn't allowed in the end because the conversations had taken place three years before.
Anna was asked by Knowlton if she was related to Lizzie and she said "No, sir." I don't think that answer was snobbery or anything, simply that the two families, although descended from one man and with the same surname, just weren't cousins or even second cousins. They were very remotely related but didn't regard each other as relatives, though they knew that there was a faint connection between all the Bordens of Fall River.
The two women had shared a cabin and so had become reasonably friendly, and Lizzie was cordial with the others too, probably. I think she was very reserved rather than very shy.
Andrew's insistence on simplicity meant that Lizzie did not have a home that she felt she could bring her friends from the Hill to. It was nothing like their family mansions. There wasn't even a bathroom or a decent WC. I think that cut her deeply.
Also, Lizzie's stepmother Abby was a homely sort of woman, not cultured or sophisticated or well read, like the older women who made up the social elite of 'the Hill'. As Lizzie despised Abby she may have felt that her friends would laugh at her stepmother behind her back. They probably wouldn't, but there is no denying that Abby would have been uncomfortable in Fall River high society.
Lizzie loved her father and he was certainly respected as a businessman around town. However, he too was awkward in society. It was noted of him that he loved his home and enjoyed being with his family. That was because he felt uncomfortable laughing, joking, smoking cigars, playing billiards etc with men or dancing and chatting with ladies.
Can you imagine Andrew in social situations on 'the Hill'? No, I can't either! So Lizzie was stuck.
Yes, Lizzie was related to Anna Borden, they shared a great, great, grandfather in common and it was the same, I think, with Caroline Borden. In the book it refers to Anna giving testimony at the trial about conversations the pair had on the trip, and how Lizzie spoke of her 'unhappy home'. That testimony wasn't allowed in the end because the conversations had taken place three years before.
Anna was asked by Knowlton if she was related to Lizzie and she said "No, sir." I don't think that answer was snobbery or anything, simply that the two families, although descended from one man and with the same surname, just weren't cousins or even second cousins. They were very remotely related but didn't regard each other as relatives, though they knew that there was a faint connection between all the Bordens of Fall River.
The two women had shared a cabin and so had become reasonably friendly, and Lizzie was cordial with the others too, probably. I think she was very reserved rather than very shy.
Andrew's insistence on simplicity meant that Lizzie did not have a home that she felt she could bring her friends from the Hill to. It was nothing like their family mansions. There wasn't even a bathroom or a decent WC. I think that cut her deeply.
Also, Lizzie's stepmother Abby was a homely sort of woman, not cultured or sophisticated or well read, like the older women who made up the social elite of 'the Hill'. As Lizzie despised Abby she may have felt that her friends would laugh at her stepmother behind her back. They probably wouldn't, but there is no denying that Abby would have been uncomfortable in Fall River high society.
Lizzie loved her father and he was certainly respected as a businessman around town. However, he too was awkward in society. It was noted of him that he loved his home and enjoyed being with his family. That was because he felt uncomfortable laughing, joking, smoking cigars, playing billiards etc with men or dancing and chatting with ladies.
Can you imagine Andrew in social situations on 'the Hill'? No, I can't either! So Lizzie was stuck.
- debbiediablo
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
Attention from her father, maybe to get back at him because her shoplifting was similar to him handing her a no limit MasterCard this day and age. According to Mayo clinic the causes of kleptomania may be related to serotonin and dopamine neurotransmission and/or imbalance in the brain's opioid system. Kleptomania risk factors may include:MysteryReader wrote:I do recall reading that. Lizzie was indeed related to the other Miss Bordens (distant cousins) and it was said that Lizzie was extremely shy so that's why she always appeared to be on the outskirts, looking in. I think it was a sad way to live life. I'm shy, too but I do have friends who include me, regardless of whether I participate. I wonder if that is why she allegedly stole items from stores- looking for attention.
• Family history. Having a first-degree relative, such as a parent or sibling, with kleptomania, obsessive-compulsive disorder, or a substance or alcohol use problem may increase your risk of kleptomania.
• Being female. About two-thirds of people with known kleptomania are women.
• Having another mental illness. People with kleptomania often have another mental illness, such as bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder, an eating disorder, substance use disorder or a personality disorder.
• Head trauma or brain injuries. People who've experienced a head trauma may develop kleptomania.
DebbieDiablo
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- Curryong
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
In the Fall River Daily Evening News social column 'Our Folks and Other Folks' of June 5th 1896.
'Mrs Dr S. Bowen and Misses Lizzie A. and Emma L. Borden have gone to Niagara Falls for a brief outing.'
So the Bowens and 'the girls' remained friends for years after the trial, it seems.
'Mrs Dr S. Bowen and Misses Lizzie A. and Emma L. Borden have gone to Niagara Falls for a brief outing.'
So the Bowens and 'the girls' remained friends for years after the trial, it seems.
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
Somewhere Lizzie is quoted talking about her school days, something about feeling other people didn't like her that much and that she felt awkward. It is a good quote but I have no idea where to start looking for it. If it is in 'Parallel Lives' it would be a good thing to post here.
I wonder again if Lizzie had extremely bad eyesight and if this hindered her social life.
I am glad to know Dr. Bowen remained friends with Lizzie and Emma. That means he was able to sort out whatever he knew about the murders. Either he knew or believed Lizzie to be innocent or knew or believed there were extremely mitigating factors concerning the murders. Again I will say, even if Lizzie was guilty I don't believe the motive was simple greed.
I wonder again if Lizzie had extremely bad eyesight and if this hindered her social life.
I am glad to know Dr. Bowen remained friends with Lizzie and Emma. That means he was able to sort out whatever he knew about the murders. Either he knew or believed Lizzie to be innocent or knew or believed there were extremely mitigating factors concerning the murders. Again I will say, even if Lizzie was guilty I don't believe the motive was simple greed.
Is all we see or seem but a dream within a dream. ~Edgar Allan Poe
- Curryong
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Re: Lizzie goes to Europe.
Rebello Page 8 has some comments on Lizzie's schooldays, too. Is this it?
Mrs Charles Holmes and other friends of Lizzie's were interviewed by the Boston Herald August 7th 1892, in an article entitled 'Lizzie Borden: Her School and Later Life--Noble Woman Though Retiring'. Parallel Lives Page 69 fleshes it out a bit more.
'It was said that "as a child Lizzie was of a very sensitive nature, inclined to be non-communicative with new acquaintances and (that) this characteristic (had) tenaciously clung to her all through life," and that "an unusual circumstance" of this was that she had few childhood friends.'
"Her schooldays were perhaps unlike most girls in this lack of affiliation with her fellow pupils," for she was a shy girl, with "anything but an enthusiastic idea of her own personal attainments."
However, as Mystery has posted, she did have a certain number of school friends. Curiously, Mr Charles Holmes, whose wife contributed to the above précis of Lizzie's schooldays, was uncle to one of these.
Louise Holmes Stillwell was older than Lizzie but she attended the same school as an adolescent. Lulie, as she was known, came from a well to do family but not from 'the Hill'.
What is important about Lulie, from our point of view is that as a schoolgirl she kept a diary, a diary in which there are a few brief mentions of the 14/15 year old Lizzie. As Parallel Lives points out, Lulie went to see Lizzzie in her home on a few occasions and walked home with her from school.
However, frustratingly she isn't very descriptive about the Borden household and Lizzie seems 'blue' as Lulie calls it, when she sees her. Parallel Lives discusses whether she had life-long bouts of depression.
Their friendship continued until adulthood however, and when Lulie married in 1882 and moved to New York, Lizzie attended the wedding and gave a set of sweetmeat dishes in the fashionable blue and white and gold gilt china of the time. They descended down Lulie's family and there is a photo of them in PL. They are hand-painted and leaf-shaped and really rather pretty.
I haven't read anything about Lizzie having bad eyesight yet, but there are lots of lovely little titbits all the way through, so maybe that's to come. I've been cherry picking a bit and the writers do discuss Lizzie's attempts to break into Fall River Society as a young woman later in the book.
Mrs Charles Holmes and other friends of Lizzie's were interviewed by the Boston Herald August 7th 1892, in an article entitled 'Lizzie Borden: Her School and Later Life--Noble Woman Though Retiring'. Parallel Lives Page 69 fleshes it out a bit more.
'It was said that "as a child Lizzie was of a very sensitive nature, inclined to be non-communicative with new acquaintances and (that) this characteristic (had) tenaciously clung to her all through life," and that "an unusual circumstance" of this was that she had few childhood friends.'
"Her schooldays were perhaps unlike most girls in this lack of affiliation with her fellow pupils," for she was a shy girl, with "anything but an enthusiastic idea of her own personal attainments."
However, as Mystery has posted, she did have a certain number of school friends. Curiously, Mr Charles Holmes, whose wife contributed to the above précis of Lizzie's schooldays, was uncle to one of these.
Louise Holmes Stillwell was older than Lizzie but she attended the same school as an adolescent. Lulie, as she was known, came from a well to do family but not from 'the Hill'.
What is important about Lulie, from our point of view is that as a schoolgirl she kept a diary, a diary in which there are a few brief mentions of the 14/15 year old Lizzie. As Parallel Lives points out, Lulie went to see Lizzzie in her home on a few occasions and walked home with her from school.
However, frustratingly she isn't very descriptive about the Borden household and Lizzie seems 'blue' as Lulie calls it, when she sees her. Parallel Lives discusses whether she had life-long bouts of depression.
Their friendship continued until adulthood however, and when Lulie married in 1882 and moved to New York, Lizzie attended the wedding and gave a set of sweetmeat dishes in the fashionable blue and white and gold gilt china of the time. They descended down Lulie's family and there is a photo of them in PL. They are hand-painted and leaf-shaped and really rather pretty.
I haven't read anything about Lizzie having bad eyesight yet, but there are lots of lovely little titbits all the way through, so maybe that's to come. I've been cherry picking a bit and the writers do discuss Lizzie's attempts to break into Fall River Society as a young woman later in the book.