That house on Fourth Street ...

[Allen]

Well if he did happen to be a drinker, could his liver disease have been Cirrhosis due to drinking? Even if he was only 38, Cirrhosis could be a possibility, if he was indeed a drinker that is. My mother had to have a liver transplant at the age of 42 due to this disease. Cirrhosis was just an idea that occurred to me, but maybe because anytime I think of a disease of the liver this is always the first thing on my mind now.

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddisease ... cirrhosis/

[Miller]

The Alexander Milne house still stands on Fourth Street.

[Doug]

The Milne house is adjacent to and north of the former Whitehead property on Fourth St.

[Susan]

Thanks for the info, Kat. Kind of nice to know that Jane stayed in the general vicinity of her daughter. Made me wonder what kind, if any, of a relationship that Abby and Jane shared, weren't they close in age? Interesting to know that the house still stands, thanks Doug, though possibly modified as well as moved. Has anyone seen it in person?

[Kat]

I was looking at ancestry to find out George's occupation. I thought that might help to figure out his disease.
I found him in The City Directory of Fall River:

1889- teamster- lives at 45 Fourth Street

1890- teamster- lives at 45 Fourth Street- works out of 30 Second Street

1891- teamster- lives at 45 Fourth Street- works out of 30 Second Street.

I guess that is a wagon driver? Did teamster's drive the trolleys?
I can't find him in the census.

When we were taken by the house, it is not the same one as shown in Len's article. The one shown is the newer Whitehead house. There were actually 3 homes in close proximity, and at the time we were with Len, he said either of the 2 smaller houses could be the old 45 Fourth Street house. In this article he says the other small house is on another lot- but in the car he was no longer sure. I don't think it's a memory lapse- I think he still is uncertain that the house on the corner is the original Whitehead house.
(I don't recall any facing away from fronting Fourth Street tho the one was set pretty far back).

[Kat]

Here is a project for Canadians and Utahians and NYCitians:

According to Len's article, the Whitehead houses were sold in 1912, and sometime after that Sarah, her daughter Abby Potter (now married) and I guess Mr. Potter moved around a lot!
NYC
Salt Lake City
Toronto
Philadelphia
Winnipeg
Providence.

Jane Gray died in 1916.
Sarah Whitehead died in Winnipeg in 1932.
Abby Potter died in 1974.

They sound like they were running from the law!
Or in The Witness Protection Program!

--"The Whitehead House Discovered", Lizzie Borden Quarterly, Vol. IX, Number 1, January, 2002, pages 6, 2 1and 22, by Leonard Rebello.

[Miller]

The LIZZIE BORDEN QUARTERLY was an outstanding publication. Each and every issue from the very first in 1993 had something new, new revelations, new facts, carefully researched. The whole body of those publications (first by Rychebusch/Souza-sp) and later by the Bertolets and Adler) is a treasure of case information not to be found elsewhere. That particular issue Kat has been quoting had another great article by Bill Pavo on Abby. Between those 2 articles alone we learn more about the families and relationships that we could find in 3 contemporary books put together. It was a loss to all those interested in this case when that publication ceased, nothing compares to it. I have mine bounded, 2 sets each, and handle one complete set and leave the other untouched. Anyone who doesn't have should try to get copies as I believe they are worth their weight in gold. Almost every single article in every single issue had something we never new before it was published or ehanced or expanded on what we theorized. Great publication. We miss it around it, I can tell you that.

[Doug]

Susan, the birth and death dates given for Jane Eldredge Baker Gray in the LBQ article referred to are 1827-1916. Abby Durfee Gray Borden (Jane's stepdaughter) are 1828-1892. So they were contemporaries.

Kat, I think the house on the corner you mention is the newer, larger house that Sarah and George Whitehead built around 1897-98. The smaller house which is pictured in the article on page 22 (it is blue in color) is the older house which I think was moved back and turned, the old no. 45 Fourth St. I have stood on the sidewalk in front of these houses a couple of times over the past 2-3 years. The view of the house in the picture looks like it may have been taken from the yard next door, not from the street. One gable end of this house now faces the street and because the neighboring houses are so close it is difficult to see the house from the angle shown in the photo. The large house stands immediately south of what I think is old no. 45. In 1895 the Milne house was numbered 43 and the Whitehead house was numbered 45. Today the Milne house is number 153 and the large house on the corner of Spring and Fourth Sts., the one probably built by Sarah and George, is number 165. Len Rebello appears to identify old no. 45 as now numbered 171 but I think this is incorrect. In fact it is probably something like number 159. Number 171 would be south of number 165, the big corner house, and the house at the back of the lot between present day nos. 165 and 153 (the Milne House) is north of no. 165. I have looked for a number 171 and could not find it. That number might now be in the Spring St right-of-way.

[weber]

Where could one find copies of the LBQ? I have never seen any for sale on ebay. Are they posted somewhere?

[Allen]

I was pretty sure a teamster was someone who drove horses I had heard the term before, but just to make sure, I looked it up.They were the equivalent of the modern day truck driver. I found this definition on a trivia site about 19th century occupations, and I provided a link also.

Teamster One who drives a team for hauling

http://www.teamster.org/about/history.htm

[Miller]

I have some pictures and will try to upload. How do I do that?

[Miller]

Spent some time at the FAQ and couldn't figure it out. So I created a free account at www.photobucket.com. Type that in your browser and when the page comes up type in "jamesmiller" in the album line and you'll see 3 pictures I uploaded of the Whitehead houses. I mislabeled on where it says "Fourth Street", its really Fifth. These were taken last summer.

[Miller]

I tried it and it worked out fine. Hope the rest of you get there okay. It's very easy to set up. Considering a separate one for family photos. We have relatives in Quincy, MA, 3,000 miles away and we usually exchange photos via email, but this is better. (My wife is nodding her head. She does that alot).

[theebmonique]

Miller,

If you highlight and copy the IMG url under your pictures in photobucket, then you can just paste that into a post and when you check 'preview' before you sunmit the post, you will se how it looks. Audrey convinced me about using photobucket...love it.


Tracy...

[Miller]

Whitehhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/jamesmiller/WhiteheadHouse2.jpgead house.

whoops

try again

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/ ... House2.jpg

[Miller]

Thank you very much, Tracy. That was very helpful. I don't understand why it seems "crinkled" unless I messed around too much resizing it. They were originally very big files.

[Miller]

Here's another one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/ ... Miller.jpg

[Miller]

Here we are at the B&B.

[theebmonique]

Nice picture ! What room did you stay in ? How was your stay ?


Tracy...

[Miller]

Last summer we stayed in the Lizzie/Emma suite the first night, then the AJB/AB suite the next night. Our very first visit was in the Morse room but it made Carole feel creepy so we don't book it anymore. All the beds are great. Our first visit the house was full, including all rooms upstairs. Since then we've stayed with only us as guests and another time one other couple. We go at least once a year, timed with an annual business convention I have in Boston. Also visit relatives nearby. Carole took this one of "the dress". We've met Mr. Rebello who signed two books we purchased and all the staff are always terrific. We both prefer staying at B&B's wherever we travel in the U.S. and find this one thoroughly enjoyable.

[Doug]

Thank you for posting the Whitehead House series of photos, James. These are very helpful. But, now I am confused! Picture no. 1 shows a house in the center background that looks very much like the house in the LBQ article on page 21. Picture no. 2 shows the house I thought was old no. 45 Fourth St., the original Whitehead House which half-interest was sold to Abby Borden in 1887 and later was moved back on the lot (and I thought turned sideways so the gable end faces the street). Picture no. 3 (with the red car) shows the Alexander Milne House. In picture no. 1 on the right side is a large house with bay windows that I believe is the house the Whiteheads constructed around 1897-98. This house also shows on the left side of picture no. 2. Today the Milne House picture (3) is numbered 153 and the large house with the bay windows showing in pictures (1) and (2) is numbered 165. What to me is the “missing” present day no. 171 and possibly the actual and original Whitehead House may be the house shown in picture no.1 as well as in the LBQ article photo. In this case one gable end of this house faces present-day Spring St. but the front still faces Fourth St. If this house is the original Whitehead House then the narrow house in picture no. 2, my candidate for the original Whitehead House, is not.

This kind of exchange of information, fact, and opinion is what helps bring history alive and keeps it always fun, interesting, and informative! Especially where the Bordens are concerned!

[theebmonique]

I know we are going off topic talking about staying at the B&B, but I love staying there. I have two nights in the guest room, and one in Lizzie's room. One of the nights, my niece and I were the only guests. We had a great time. I know we have had many threads before where we discussed staying at THE HOUSE, but if anyone is interested in bringing the subject up again, let's start a new thread ?


Tracy...
My niece and I with Mr. Rebello. His book is wonderful.

[Susan]

Thanks for the info on Jane and Abby, Doug, I remember that I had read something along those lines, but, couldn't remember where, ugh.

Thank you for sharing your pics with us, James. It just brings the whole story to life to see pics of these places that I usually just get to read about.

[Nancie]

Weber: the LBQ is sometimes on Ebay, you have
to keep checking, I don't think it is on the Internet
anywhere. Great photos on this thread, thanks!

[Allen]

Thank you for the pictures Miller. I thought they were helpful. I also enjoyed the pictures shared of the B&B by both you and theebmonique.I loved my stays there as well, and never mind going off topic to hear others talk about their stays . I use photobucket myself, as does my son. He saves his "creations" from photoshop there that he thinks are especially "sweet". Comes in pretty handy for sharing photos with family members also.

[kwest919]

Excuse my tardiness to the party here. Shame on me.
But if someone would clear up a question it would be most appreciated
Andrew and Abby both died intestate. no wills
I understand the girls receiving Andrews estate. They are his daughters and his direct next of kin.

What I don't understand is why the girls had received Abby's part of the estate.
Why didn't Abby's personal estate.. her part of the Fourth Street property , her clothing, jewels and personal effects go directly to her next of kin? Which really at this point would have been Pricilla first being her natural sister then to Sarah her half sister.

What am I missing here?

[twinsrwe]

kwest919, you will find the answer to your question in this link: http://tinyurl.com/y8qtooqo

[kwest919]

thank you for the link twinsrwe

[twinsrwe]

You're welcome.