The crime committed here, was not perfect. Some things which I find strange are:
1. Letting the crime scene open to strangers, accomplices, and murderers.
2. Letting Lizzie, Emma and the whole crew to continue to stay at the place of murder.
3. No proof or verification of Emma's actual whereabouts (at least I have not come across any).
4. Lizzie's whereabouts unknown between 9am-1030am.
5. The dream team and chosen Judges for a case of this stature
6. Bridget's missing inquest testimony
and many more.
Is there any material on governance of officials in Fall River during the 1800s? I am not sure about the level of corruption existent in the system back then. Could you bribe the cops/judges and other government officials and get away with it? Was it a Norm? Lizzie was not the smartest based on her conduct. Nor was Bridget or Emma. Other than Uncle Morse, no one had a full proof alibi.
The centerpiece of this mystery to me lies in the fact that the governance bodies, did a poor job in conducting the investigation. After reading the inquest, it felt like they were so close to getting the murderer behind the bars. But as the time went on, and the case got to the court, it almost felt like the prosecutor's and the defense team were working in tandem to make a show out of it, than getting someone behind the bars.
I don't get it why Lizzie was never questioned during a 13 day long trial. Also, even if he had to believe the court concluded Lizzie was not the murderer; why was the case closed? It was sensational enough to make an attempt to find the true murderer.
I would love to see if we have any reports of corruption within governance bodies in 1800s. If anyone has further insights, please share.
Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
Moderator: Adminlizzieborden
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Curiousmind2014
- Posts: 83
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MysteryReader
- Posts: 808
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- Real Name: Misty
- Location: somewhere in GA
Re: Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
Curious,
Interesting questions! I agree that they really messed up the scene by letting everyone walk through. Here's a question to add: why did the police let the doctor talk with Lizzie in her bedroom, away from others
As for Emma, didn't the people she stayed with (I can't remember who they were) verify that she was with them? I seem to remember something about that. I'll need to see if I can find where I read that.
Interesting questions! I agree that they really messed up the scene by letting everyone walk through. Here's a question to add: why did the police let the doctor talk with Lizzie in her bedroom, away from others
As for Emma, didn't the people she stayed with (I can't remember who they were) verify that she was with them? I seem to remember something about that. I'll need to see if I can find where I read that.
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Curiousmind2014
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:14 pm
- Real Name: Arien guy
Re: Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
True Misty,
Actions of Dr. Bowen before the cops came, were too frantic. He probably reacted the way he should have, given that he was a trusted doctor for the family and a man (based on social structure then).
1. Ride to the telegraph office
2. First access to the body
3. Continued consultation for Lizzie
4. Burning the note
5. Prior day poisoning incidence
alongside the one you mentioned. Emma stayed with the Brownells in Fairhaven. I don't recall someone checking with the Brownells. However, through some source, supposed her time of arrival in Fall River is stated. People don't focus on Emma because of lack of information. But like many such murders, the murder itself is the end of the story, the story began when Emma gave a promise to her mom, when she raised Lizzie with the same hatred she had for Abby, and when she participated in being as disappointed as Lizzie about a house given to Abby's sister.
But I really want to know if the cops messed it up due to genuine lack of diligence; or otherwise.
Actions of Dr. Bowen before the cops came, were too frantic. He probably reacted the way he should have, given that he was a trusted doctor for the family and a man (based on social structure then).
1. Ride to the telegraph office
2. First access to the body
3. Continued consultation for Lizzie
4. Burning the note
5. Prior day poisoning incidence
alongside the one you mentioned. Emma stayed with the Brownells in Fairhaven. I don't recall someone checking with the Brownells. However, through some source, supposed her time of arrival in Fall River is stated. People don't focus on Emma because of lack of information. But like many such murders, the murder itself is the end of the story, the story began when Emma gave a promise to her mom, when she raised Lizzie with the same hatred she had for Abby, and when she participated in being as disappointed as Lizzie about a house given to Abby's sister.
But I really want to know if the cops messed it up due to genuine lack of diligence; or otherwise.
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twinsrwe
- Posts: 4457
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Re: Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
I agree, there are a lot of very strange things that stands out regarding the crime scene, however, I believe that it was a perfect crime considering whoever the killer was got away with a double homicide. I hope the following information is a help in answering some of your questions.
Regarding #1 and #2 of your list: I agree, although I would add these questions.
A. Lizzie finds her father brutally murdered, yet she stayed in the house, after sending the only other living person out to find Dr. Bowen. If the killer was an intruder, then how did Lizzie know that person wasn’t still in the house? If Lizzie was the killer, then she had nothing to fear.
B. Three days after the murders, Lizzie burned a dress supposedly ‘with paint’ on it, which Alice Russell and Emma witnessed her doing. Why did Lizzie decide to burn a dress which had paint on it on the hem of it? Why wasn’t the dress torn up and used for cleaning rags? Why did Lizzie decide to burn a dress, while the police were still investigating the murders? Why was the dress hidden in the kitchen cupboard? Why didn’t the police find this paint stained dress during their investigation?
C. When Lizzie found her father’s body, she called for Bridget to come quickly because someone had come in and killed father. How did she know her father was dead? Why send Bridget looking for Dr. Bowen if she knew her father was dead? Why didn’t she send Bridget for the police?
Regarding #3 of your list: The closest thing I have found verifying that Emma was at the Brownell house in Fairhaven at the time of the murders is when an Evening Standard reporter asked about a particular letter the Lizzie allegedly sent to Emma. I think Mrs. Brownell would have told the report that Emma was not visiting them, if she had not been; Mrs. Brownell even stated to the reporter that Emma had intended to remain in Fairhaven all Summer.
Evening Standard
Thursday, August 25, 1892 Page 8
From Yesterdays Third Edition.
LIZZIE BORDEN'S LETTER.
Emma Friends in Fairhaven
Seen This Afternoon.
Mrs. Allen Brownell No Recollection
of the Circumstance Related.
The Missive May Have Been Shown
to Her Daughter.
Immediately upon the receipt of news from the Standard's special correspondent in Fall River in relation to the singular experience of Lizzie Borden as related by her at the inquest, given on the first page, a Standard reporter called at the residence of Mrs. Allen Brownell on Green street in Fairhaven, where Emma Borden was on a visit to Miss Helen Brownell, a daughter of Mrs. Brownell above named. Unfortunately Miss Brownell was not in town, and when the newspaper man stated that he had called for the purpose of ascertaining as to the truth of the alleged statement of Miss Borden that she had shown such a letter to her friends in Fairhaven, Mrs. Brownell said she could not say whether she had or not. She certainly had not shown such a letter to her, and she could not say whether Emma had shown such a letter to her daughter or not. She remembered that Miss Borden had had several letters during her visit, but could not remember whether she received one the day previous to the murder or not.
When asked if her daughter would not have been likely to have mentioned the fact if such a letter had been shown, Mrs. Brownell replied, "Yes, I think she would."
In speaking of the tragedy, Mrs. Brownell did not hesitate to speak strongly in support of Lizzie's innocence. She said that both of the girls always spoke in endearing terms of their father. Emma, she stated, had intended to remain in Fairhaven all Summer.
Regarding #4 of your list: According to Lizzie’s Inquest Testimony at about 9:00am she began ironing eight or ten of her best handkerchiefs, which puts her in the house during the time Abby was murdered until after Andrew arrived home. (Personally, I do not believe that Lizzie ever went to the barn; there was no evidence whatsoever, that she was in the barn looking for sinkers or iron and eating pears.)
Inquest Testimony of Lizzie Borden, being questioned by Mr. Knowlton, page 59 (16):
Q. What was the next thing that happened after you got down?
A. Maggie went out of doors to wash the windows and father came out into the kitchen and said he did not know whether he would go down to the post office or not. And then I sprinkled some handkerchiefs to iron.
Q. Tell us again what time you came downstairs.
A. It was a little before nine, I should say. About quarter. I don't know sure.
Q. Did your father go down town?
A. He went down later.
Q. What time did he start away?
A. I don't know.
Q. What were you doing when he started away?
A. I was in the dining room, I think. Yes, I had just commenced, I think, to iron.
Q. It may seem a foolish question. How much of an ironing did you have?
A. I only had about eight or ten of my best handkerchiefs.
Q. Did you let your father out?
A. No sir, he went out himself.
Q. Did you fasten the door after him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did Maggie?
A. I don't know. When she went upstairs, she always locked the door. She had charge of the back door.
Q. Did she go out after a brush before your father went away?
A. I think so.
Q. Did you say anything to Maggie?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you say anything about washing the windows?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you speak to her?
A. I think I told her I did not want any breakfast.
Q. You do not remember of talking about washing the windows?
A. I don't remember whether I did or not. I don't remember it. Yes, I remember. Yes, I asked her to shut the parlor blinds when she got through because the sun was so hot.
Q. About what time do you think your father went downtown?
A. I don't know. It must have been about nine o'clock. I don't know what time it was.
Q. You think at that time you had begun to iron your handkerchiefs?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long a job was that?
A. I did not finish them. My flats were not hot enough.
Q. How long a job would it have been if the flats had been right?
A. If they had been hot, not more than 20 minutes, perhaps.
Q. How long did you work on the job?
A. I don't know, sir.
Q. How long was your father gone?
A. I don't know that.
Q. Where were you when he returned?
A. I was down in the kitchen.
Q. What doing?
A. Reading an old magazine that had been left in the cupboard, an old Harper's magazine.
Q. Had you got through ironing?
A. No sir.
Q. Had you stopped ironing?
A. Stopped for the flats.
Q. Were you waiting for them to be hot?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was there a fire in the stove?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When your father went away, you were ironing then?
A. I had not commenced, but I was getting the little ironing board and the flannel.
Q. Are you sure you were in the kitchen when your father returned?
A. I am not sure whether I was there or in the dining room.
Q. Did you go back to your room before your father returned?
A. I think I did carry up some clean clothes.
Q. Did you stay there?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you spend any time up the front stairs before your father returned?
A. No sir.
Q. Or after he returned?
A. No sir. I did stay in my room long enough when I went up to sew a little piece of tape on a garment.
Q. Was that the time when your father came home?
A. He came home after I came downstairs.
Q. You were not upstairs when he came home?
A. I was not upstairs when he came home, no sir.
Source: http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... nquest.pdf
Regarding # 5 of your list: I assume you are referring to the Trial, and not the Inquest or Preliminary Hearing. If so, then yes, I agree with you. Not only did Lizzie have a dream team to defend her, the jury was made up of 12 men, whom I believe had ‘reasonable doubt’ that a woman could have committed these murders. Granted there wasn’t any physical evidence to prove Lizzie was guilty, but all of the circumstantial evidence pointed to her.
Regarding #6 of your list: There are several very interesting threads on the forum regarding Bridget’s lost Inquest Testimony, which I think you will finding interesting. (Note there are two different threads with the same title.):
The missing Inquest testimony.
http://tinyurl.com/ztytpno
Bridget's Inquest Testimony
http://tinyurl.com/hj2t9ct
Bridget's Inquest Testimony
http://tinyurl.com/zeo6d55
Taken to the grave?
http://tinyurl.com/gpexbns
I believe The Commonwealth of Massachusetts was the governance of officials.
"Commonwealth" is a nomenclature used by four of the constituent states of the United States of America in their official, full state names. These states are Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. The four were among the first 15 states to join the Union.
This designation, which has no legal meaning, emphasizes that they have a "government based on the common consent of the people" as opposed to one legitimated through their earlier royal colony status that was derived from the monarch of Great Britain. The word commonwealth in this context refers to the common "weal", or welfare, of the public and is derived from a loose translation of the Latin term res publica (cf. the 17th-century Commonwealth of England).
Source: http://tinyurl.com/z99hjdx
I agree, the governance of officials in Fall River did a very sloppy job of investigating the Borden murders. The Borden family had strong roots to the community and had been among the most influential citizens of the region for decades. Andrew may have been from the lesser side of the Borden family, but he was wealthy in his own right. His daughter was on trial for murder; how could they possibly convict a Borden, and sentence her to be hung? Given the fact that Lizzie was a Borden, I don’t believe she had to bribe the cops/judges and other government officials in order to be acquitted.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts elected to charge no one else with the murder of Andrew and Abby Borden …
Source: http://tinyurl.com/alcou66
I found it interesting that at the end of the Preliminary Hearing, Lizzie was judged "Probably Guilty" by Judge Blaisdell. Rebello's Lizzie Borden Past and Present, page 162:
The Court's Judgement
Judge Josiah C. Blaisdell: "The long examination is now concluded, and there remains but for the magistrate to perform what he believes to be his duty. It would be a pleasure for him, and he would doubtless receive much sympathy if he could say, ‘Lizzie, I judge you probably not guilty. You may go home.' But upon the character of the evidence presented through the witnesses who have been so closely and thoroughly examined, there is but one thing to be done. Suppose for a single moment a man was standing there. He was found close by that guest chamber which, to Mrs. Borden, was a chamber of death. Suppose a man had been found in the vicinity of Mr. Borden, who was first to find the body, and the only account he could give of himself was the unreasonable one that he was out in the barn looking for sinkers, then he was out in the yard, then he was out for something else. Would there be any question in the minds of men what should be done with such a man? So there is only one thing to do, painful as it may be - the judgment of the Court is that you are probably guilty, and you are ordered committed to await the action of the Superior Court." (Porter, Edwin H., The Fall River Tragedy: History of the Borden Murders, 1893:139140).
Regarding #1 and #2 of your list: I agree, although I would add these questions.
A. Lizzie finds her father brutally murdered, yet she stayed in the house, after sending the only other living person out to find Dr. Bowen. If the killer was an intruder, then how did Lizzie know that person wasn’t still in the house? If Lizzie was the killer, then she had nothing to fear.
B. Three days after the murders, Lizzie burned a dress supposedly ‘with paint’ on it, which Alice Russell and Emma witnessed her doing. Why did Lizzie decide to burn a dress which had paint on it on the hem of it? Why wasn’t the dress torn up and used for cleaning rags? Why did Lizzie decide to burn a dress, while the police were still investigating the murders? Why was the dress hidden in the kitchen cupboard? Why didn’t the police find this paint stained dress during their investigation?
C. When Lizzie found her father’s body, she called for Bridget to come quickly because someone had come in and killed father. How did she know her father was dead? Why send Bridget looking for Dr. Bowen if she knew her father was dead? Why didn’t she send Bridget for the police?
Regarding #3 of your list: The closest thing I have found verifying that Emma was at the Brownell house in Fairhaven at the time of the murders is when an Evening Standard reporter asked about a particular letter the Lizzie allegedly sent to Emma. I think Mrs. Brownell would have told the report that Emma was not visiting them, if she had not been; Mrs. Brownell even stated to the reporter that Emma had intended to remain in Fairhaven all Summer.
Evening Standard
Thursday, August 25, 1892 Page 8
From Yesterdays Third Edition.
LIZZIE BORDEN'S LETTER.
Emma Friends in Fairhaven
Seen This Afternoon.
Mrs. Allen Brownell No Recollection
of the Circumstance Related.
The Missive May Have Been Shown
to Her Daughter.
Immediately upon the receipt of news from the Standard's special correspondent in Fall River in relation to the singular experience of Lizzie Borden as related by her at the inquest, given on the first page, a Standard reporter called at the residence of Mrs. Allen Brownell on Green street in Fairhaven, where Emma Borden was on a visit to Miss Helen Brownell, a daughter of Mrs. Brownell above named. Unfortunately Miss Brownell was not in town, and when the newspaper man stated that he had called for the purpose of ascertaining as to the truth of the alleged statement of Miss Borden that she had shown such a letter to her friends in Fairhaven, Mrs. Brownell said she could not say whether she had or not. She certainly had not shown such a letter to her, and she could not say whether Emma had shown such a letter to her daughter or not. She remembered that Miss Borden had had several letters during her visit, but could not remember whether she received one the day previous to the murder or not.
When asked if her daughter would not have been likely to have mentioned the fact if such a letter had been shown, Mrs. Brownell replied, "Yes, I think she would."
In speaking of the tragedy, Mrs. Brownell did not hesitate to speak strongly in support of Lizzie's innocence. She said that both of the girls always spoke in endearing terms of their father. Emma, she stated, had intended to remain in Fairhaven all Summer.
Regarding #4 of your list: According to Lizzie’s Inquest Testimony at about 9:00am she began ironing eight or ten of her best handkerchiefs, which puts her in the house during the time Abby was murdered until after Andrew arrived home. (Personally, I do not believe that Lizzie ever went to the barn; there was no evidence whatsoever, that she was in the barn looking for sinkers or iron and eating pears.)
Inquest Testimony of Lizzie Borden, being questioned by Mr. Knowlton, page 59 (16):
Q. What was the next thing that happened after you got down?
A. Maggie went out of doors to wash the windows and father came out into the kitchen and said he did not know whether he would go down to the post office or not. And then I sprinkled some handkerchiefs to iron.
Q. Tell us again what time you came downstairs.
A. It was a little before nine, I should say. About quarter. I don't know sure.
Q. Did your father go down town?
A. He went down later.
Q. What time did he start away?
A. I don't know.
Q. What were you doing when he started away?
A. I was in the dining room, I think. Yes, I had just commenced, I think, to iron.
Q. It may seem a foolish question. How much of an ironing did you have?
A. I only had about eight or ten of my best handkerchiefs.
Q. Did you let your father out?
A. No sir, he went out himself.
Q. Did you fasten the door after him?
A. No sir.
Q. Did Maggie?
A. I don't know. When she went upstairs, she always locked the door. She had charge of the back door.
Q. Did she go out after a brush before your father went away?
A. I think so.
Q. Did you say anything to Maggie?
A. I did not.
Q. Did you say anything about washing the windows?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you speak to her?
A. I think I told her I did not want any breakfast.
Q. You do not remember of talking about washing the windows?
A. I don't remember whether I did or not. I don't remember it. Yes, I remember. Yes, I asked her to shut the parlor blinds when she got through because the sun was so hot.
Q. About what time do you think your father went downtown?
A. I don't know. It must have been about nine o'clock. I don't know what time it was.
Q. You think at that time you had begun to iron your handkerchiefs?
A. Yes sir.
Q. How long a job was that?
A. I did not finish them. My flats were not hot enough.
Q. How long a job would it have been if the flats had been right?
A. If they had been hot, not more than 20 minutes, perhaps.
Q. How long did you work on the job?
A. I don't know, sir.
Q. How long was your father gone?
A. I don't know that.
Q. Where were you when he returned?
A. I was down in the kitchen.
Q. What doing?
A. Reading an old magazine that had been left in the cupboard, an old Harper's magazine.
Q. Had you got through ironing?
A. No sir.
Q. Had you stopped ironing?
A. Stopped for the flats.
Q. Were you waiting for them to be hot?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Was there a fire in the stove?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When your father went away, you were ironing then?
A. I had not commenced, but I was getting the little ironing board and the flannel.
Q. Are you sure you were in the kitchen when your father returned?
A. I am not sure whether I was there or in the dining room.
Q. Did you go back to your room before your father returned?
A. I think I did carry up some clean clothes.
Q. Did you stay there?
A. No sir.
Q. Did you spend any time up the front stairs before your father returned?
A. No sir.
Q. Or after he returned?
A. No sir. I did stay in my room long enough when I went up to sew a little piece of tape on a garment.
Q. Was that the time when your father came home?
A. He came home after I came downstairs.
Q. You were not upstairs when he came home?
A. I was not upstairs when he came home, no sir.
Source: http://lizzieandrewborden.com/wp-conten ... nquest.pdf
Regarding # 5 of your list: I assume you are referring to the Trial, and not the Inquest or Preliminary Hearing. If so, then yes, I agree with you. Not only did Lizzie have a dream team to defend her, the jury was made up of 12 men, whom I believe had ‘reasonable doubt’ that a woman could have committed these murders. Granted there wasn’t any physical evidence to prove Lizzie was guilty, but all of the circumstantial evidence pointed to her.
Regarding #6 of your list: There are several very interesting threads on the forum regarding Bridget’s lost Inquest Testimony, which I think you will finding interesting. (Note there are two different threads with the same title.):
The missing Inquest testimony.
http://tinyurl.com/ztytpno
Bridget's Inquest Testimony
http://tinyurl.com/hj2t9ct
Bridget's Inquest Testimony
http://tinyurl.com/zeo6d55
Taken to the grave?
http://tinyurl.com/gpexbns
I believe The Commonwealth of Massachusetts was the governance of officials.
"Commonwealth" is a nomenclature used by four of the constituent states of the United States of America in their official, full state names. These states are Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia. The four were among the first 15 states to join the Union.
This designation, which has no legal meaning, emphasizes that they have a "government based on the common consent of the people" as opposed to one legitimated through their earlier royal colony status that was derived from the monarch of Great Britain. The word commonwealth in this context refers to the common "weal", or welfare, of the public and is derived from a loose translation of the Latin term res publica (cf. the 17th-century Commonwealth of England).
Source: http://tinyurl.com/z99hjdx
I agree, the governance of officials in Fall River did a very sloppy job of investigating the Borden murders. The Borden family had strong roots to the community and had been among the most influential citizens of the region for decades. Andrew may have been from the lesser side of the Borden family, but he was wealthy in his own right. His daughter was on trial for murder; how could they possibly convict a Borden, and sentence her to be hung? Given the fact that Lizzie was a Borden, I don’t believe she had to bribe the cops/judges and other government officials in order to be acquitted.
The Commonwealth of Massachusetts elected to charge no one else with the murder of Andrew and Abby Borden …
Source: http://tinyurl.com/alcou66
I found it interesting that at the end of the Preliminary Hearing, Lizzie was judged "Probably Guilty" by Judge Blaisdell. Rebello's Lizzie Borden Past and Present, page 162:
The Court's Judgement
Judge Josiah C. Blaisdell: "The long examination is now concluded, and there remains but for the magistrate to perform what he believes to be his duty. It would be a pleasure for him, and he would doubtless receive much sympathy if he could say, ‘Lizzie, I judge you probably not guilty. You may go home.' But upon the character of the evidence presented through the witnesses who have been so closely and thoroughly examined, there is but one thing to be done. Suppose for a single moment a man was standing there. He was found close by that guest chamber which, to Mrs. Borden, was a chamber of death. Suppose a man had been found in the vicinity of Mr. Borden, who was first to find the body, and the only account he could give of himself was the unreasonable one that he was out in the barn looking for sinkers, then he was out in the yard, then he was out for something else. Would there be any question in the minds of men what should be done with such a man? So there is only one thing to do, painful as it may be - the judgment of the Court is that you are probably guilty, and you are ordered committed to await the action of the Superior Court." (Porter, Edwin H., The Fall River Tragedy: History of the Borden Murders, 1893:139140).
In remembrance of my beloved son:
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
"Vaya Con Dios" (Spanish for: "Go with God"), by Anne Murray ( https://tinyurl.com/y8nvqqx9 )
“God has you in heaven, but I have you in my heart.” ~ TobyMac (https://tinyurl.com/rakc5nd )
-
KGDevil
- Posts: 549
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:41 pm
- Real Name: John Porter
Re: Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
Personally I don't think the cops were corrupt. If this were true I don't believe that any would have freely admitted they believed Lizzie did it. I think it had more to do with the way police investigations were conducted at the time. The art of investigation was still evolving. There was no general rule of sealing off a crime scene. The fact that they posted someone at the side door to watch it does show they were attempting to document who went in and out of the house. They didn't collect blood evidence for any other reasons than to make sure it was human and check for poisons. Splatter patterns could be analyzed. Or whether or not the blood was fresh or congealed. They did not dust for prints. There was very little forensic evidence that could be conclusively established. More than one doctor also seemed to have handled and possibly moved the bodies before police could fully investigate.
Even around the time of the death of the Black Dahlia crime scenes were not always sacred. Newspaper reporters were the first to photograph her body. Reporters and police sometimes scratched each others back when it came to tips and interviewing suspects. It doesn't mean the police didn't take the investigations seriously. It's just how things worked.
One thing that does confuse me is why it took so long to make a completely thorough top to bottom search of the house. I think it could have been due to Victorian male sensibilities. They did not want to further distress the women at such a fragile time. Police would not impose on a woman unless there was already suspicion of guilt. Which is why I think she was allowed to slink off to her bedroom. Back then women were thought fragile and easily excitable under normal circumstances.The doctor was there to tend to her well being.
The term probably guilty means she was held over for trial on the basis of probable guilt. If there wasn't probable guilt there would have been no reason to go to trial. Probable guilt is not enough to establish a guilty verdict. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt requires a stronger conviction of guilt. This is the standard the state has to meet.
Even around the time of the death of the Black Dahlia crime scenes were not always sacred. Newspaper reporters were the first to photograph her body. Reporters and police sometimes scratched each others back when it came to tips and interviewing suspects. It doesn't mean the police didn't take the investigations seriously. It's just how things worked.
One thing that does confuse me is why it took so long to make a completely thorough top to bottom search of the house. I think it could have been due to Victorian male sensibilities. They did not want to further distress the women at such a fragile time. Police would not impose on a woman unless there was already suspicion of guilt. Which is why I think she was allowed to slink off to her bedroom. Back then women were thought fragile and easily excitable under normal circumstances.The doctor was there to tend to her well being.
The term probably guilty means she was held over for trial on the basis of probable guilt. If there wasn't probable guilt there would have been no reason to go to trial. Probable guilt is not enough to establish a guilty verdict. Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt requires a stronger conviction of guilt. This is the standard the state has to meet.
Crime is common. Logic is rare. Therefore it is upon the logic rather than upon the crime that you should dwell. - Arthur Conan Doyle
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NancyDrew
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:33 am
- Gender: Female
- Real Name: Robin
- Location: New England
Re: Were Fall River Cops / Policemen corrupt?
I agree. Corrupt? I don't think so. Incompetent? Yes, definitely.
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mbhenty
- Posts: 4474
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:20 am
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