What was Lizzie's voice like?

dalcanton · Post by **dalcanton** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:48 am

Is there any written documentation on what Lizzie’s voice sounded like? Was it soft & feminine? Did she speak with an accent? I've always pictured Lizzie to be a strong woman for her time (when men completely dominated almost all aspects of society), & I just can't picture her having a soft, feminine voice - although of course, there's nothing wrong w/that! I always imagined her voice would have a bolder tone, not necessarily masculine & deep, just not the giddy, soft feminine type sometimes associated w/the Victorian era. Does anyone know? I'm so curious!

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:30 pm

I see that you are new,welcome to the forum dalcanton.

I don't know if there was any recorded voice of Lizzie, but being a New Englander, I am thinking she probably had a eastern accent. Kind of like what my mom has-- she is from Philly.

Stefani · Post by **Stefani** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:18 pm

This has been a pet project of mine. I am sad to say, that no one knows. There are no descriptions of her voice, other than Bence recognizing her.

No one, apparently, ever asked anyone to describe her. Which means that it was not unusual or lilting or musical or out of the ordinary.

Until further details come to light, I am afraid that we just don't know.

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:17 pm

That's true. But it's still nice to try and imagine what she'd sound like. I would say, typical New Englander.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:03 pm

We simply don't know what she sounded like. The only reference that I know of appeared in the New York Herald of Aug. 7, 1892:

"... She is a masculine looking woman, with a strong, resolute, unsympathetic face. She is robustly built; thirty three years old and of average height. Her voice has a peculiar guttural harshness. ..."

As far as I know Lizzie spoke to no reporters so where this information came from I have no idea. The lines have her age incorrect at 33; she was 32 at the time.

Looking up "guttural" in various dictionaries it is defined as:

Of or pertaining to the throat; formed in the throat; relating to, or characteristic of, a sound formed in the throat.

harsh, throaty sound produced in the throat.

Do we know of any famous person who has a "guttural" voice?

DJ · Post by DJ » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:18 pm

The voices of June Allyson, Lauren Bacall, and Brenda Vaccaro (all native New Yorkers, if I'm not mistaken)-- caught on film soundracks at the age of 32-- have all been described as "throaty."
The Southern actresses Elizabeth Ashley and Tallulah Bankhead were possessed of "throaty" voices. Such a voice needn't be considered unpleasant. Just distinctive. Which probably explains why Eli Bence wanted to hear it again, to ascertain a positive I.D.
Maybe Lizzie had had a bad case of the whooping cough at some juncture. Or, maybe she was rolling her own behind the barn.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:13 pm

I believe the term "guttural" refers to forming certain sounds with the throat rather than with the mouth. Does anyone remember Gilda Radner's character Baba Wawa on Saturday Night Live? This lampooned Barbara Walters' guttural pronunciation of the "r" sound.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:20 pm

Then too, the only problem with picturing a "typical New Englander's" way of speaking - there's at least three distinct (or "typical") New England accents that I can think of offhand ...and none of those says "Fall River."

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:09 pm

Yooper @ Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:13 pm wrote:I believe the term "guttural" refers to forming certain sounds with the throat rather than with the mouth. Does anyone remember Gilda Radner's character Baba Wawa on Saturday Night Live? This lampooned Barbara Walters' guttural pronunciation of the "r" sound.

Nothing "guttural" about it. It's "labiodental" (like v or f, though weaker).

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:30 am

Constantine @ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:09 am wrote:
Yooper @ Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:13 pm wrote:I believe the term "guttural" refers to forming certain sounds with the throat rather than with the mouth. Does anyone remember Gilda Radner's character Baba Wawa on Saturday Night Live? This lampooned Barbara Walters' guttural pronunciation of the "r" sound.
Nothing "guttural" about it. It's "labiodental" (like v or f, though weaker).

Are you referring to Walters or Radner?

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:30 pm

Walters. Radner exaggerated it to a w, if memory serves.

DJ · Post by DJ » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:38 pm

I still think Radner's "Baba Wawa" was more than a tad cruel, and the sketches weren't all that funny after the first couple, because they kept playing on the same speech-impediment "joke."
Baba = Elmer Fudd.
"Hewwo, fwiends, wis is Baba Wawa" = "Wascawy wabbit."
Now, I did love Roseanne Roseannadanna, and Radner's comedy album, recorded off her 1979 show at the Winter Garden, is a classic.
Rhonda Weiss and the Rhondettes singing "Goodbye, Saccharine" and Candy Slice singing "Gimme Mick" are outrageously funny, along with the Roseannadanna and Emily Litella sketches. However, there isn't a "Baba Wawa" routine in the show. It had pretty much worn thin by that point.

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:00 pm

I agree, Radner's character pushed it a bit, no doubt! The "w" substitution for "r" is an approximation of the sound involved. The guttural pronunciation is replicated by pronouncing "r" with the tongue held flat in the mouth rather than raised. This seems to relegate the formation of the sound to the throat rather than the mouth.

The German language is often referred to as being guttural due to the "ch" pronunciations.

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:57 am

Judy Henske has a deep voice but it's not "guttural." Georgia Brown also had a deep voice that got deeper with age but it wasn't guttural either. Virginia Leith also has a deepish, smokey-voice with a slight raspiness to it and not very feminine sounding.

My guess is that Lizzie was probably an alto with some sort of rough edge to it. It is fun to speculate.

-1bigsteve (o:

Yooper · Post by **Yooper** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:45 am

I don't know if it matches Lizzie's voice, but I knew someone years ago who had a voice which could be very accurately described by the above newspaper article. The best I can describe it is almost like someone on the edge of hysteria, trying to contain a scream. Not literally, but having that sound quality. The voice was relatively high pitched and became a bit tremulous if the individual became agitated or tense, much as Bence described Lizzie's voice. It seemed to come from the person's throat rather than from the diaphragm, it was not projected. I'm trying to come up with a good example, but the best I can do is one of the Muppet characters which I can't recall the name of, and a very subdued Bobcat Goldthwaite!

DJ · Post by DJ » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:52 pm

Yooper, I'm thinking of Bette Davis in "All About Eve," responding to the character Bill Sampson calling her "paranoic."
"Paranoic!" Bette's voice goes from a throaty delivery to a shriek by the fourth syllable. I think this is exactly what you're referring to--
AND, AND, AND--
Let's don't forget that Ms. Davis was born in Massachusetts in 1908, either. Her voice, especially by the time she made "All About Eve" and it had deepened a bit, may in fact be very close to what Lizzie's was, especially given the regional connection and the time period.
(I hate that Warner Bros. never developed a Lizzie Borden project for Bette when she would have been a suitable age to play the role.)

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sun Apr 19, 2009 2:08 pm

I agree, DJ. I think Bette Davis would have made a real good Lizzie in her early years, especialy with those bulging eyes.

-1bigsteve (o:

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Bette Davis's voice in her earlier years was quite different, not at all throaty. (See any of her films before 1936.)

DJ · Post by DJ » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:24 pm

Bette Davis's register seemed to deepen with each passing year. She was 33 when she played Boston (!!!) spinster Charlotte Vale in "Now, Voyager," and her voice in that (thoroughly enjoyable) film may be somewhat close to what Lizzie's was.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:23 pm

Eric Stedman has a sound recording I believe he made, (and directed?) of Lizzie's inquest testimony with an actress and actor (playing Knowlton).

Those more expert at pinpointing a Fall River accent, vs. Rhode Island accent or New Bedford, say, would know how close it might be. But the sound of her voice was depicted as feminine- but her inflection and emphasis in the actress's responses were more important than the quality of it- since we will never know. The modern re-enactment recording is fascinating.

I wonder if actress Jill Dalton has studied this question as she prepared/prepares her character?

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Thu May 07, 2009 3:17 pm

I have a bootleg of Lizzie singing "It's a Grand Old Flag." Nice voice, though she sings a little sharp (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk).

As with so much else, we'll never know. That reporter could've been writing what he thought he thought the public would want to hear - that Lizzie, that possible criminal - was not feminine.

And, Snok, there's a world of difference between the sounds of Fall River and Philly - there is no such thing as "an Eastern accent." Wildly divergent vowels, for one thing! Philly's accent is closer to those of Upstate New York and Chicago.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Thu May 07, 2009 4:12 pm

Lizzie only died 82 years ago, so there may very well be people still living who know what her voice sounded like. Of course, anything they have to say will be second-hand, but it's something.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:23 am

Thatr's true! Our William here was alive when Lizzie was alive!!! But if he heard her voice he never said...

1bigsteve · Post by **1bigsteve** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:58 pm

Constantine @ Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:14 pm wrote:Bette Davis's voice in her earlier years was quite different, not at all throaty. (See any of her films before 1936.)

True. I saw Bette Davis a couple nights ago with Paul Muni in a 1935 film. She sounded so young then.

It would have been interesting to see Bette Davis as Lizzie.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:02 pm

I thought you were going to say you saw Bette Davis a few nights ago!
*The Medium Is the Message!*

Stefani and I saw her one-woman show years ago in Daytona Beach, where she lectured, showed clips of her movies, described what her working and personal life was like, and finally, answered questions from the audience- all while chain smoking and drinking something that seemed possibly alcoholic. WOW!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun May 10, 2009 5:04 pm

Now you've got me wondering what Andrew's voice was like!
Anyone have any possible candidates in actors of age range 65-72 who might be from the Ferry Street part of Fall River- or just play a convincing one?

amber_g27 · Post by **amber_g27** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 am

Hello, my ex boyfriend went to the Lizzie Borden house back in May of 2017, and he called me, to do a spiritbox session with the Bordens. If you don't know what a spiritbox is, it's a radio with white noise that sweeps in reverse through frequencies and it's allowing you to hear spirit voices. I've always known what mister Bordens voice sounded like, very very deep and low, almost scary sounding.
When i asked questions directed to Lizzie, i would get a female voice coming through that sounded very calm, she also sounded very masculine, you could hear it was a female but she had a very deep and low voice for a female, and it's exactly what i expected her to sound like!

BeeQueen · Post by **BeeQueen** » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Does a URL (e.g., YouTube) with these “spiritbox sessions” and if so, could you provide it?

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:11 am

Hey, amber_g27 and BeeQueen! Would either of you like to buy a bridge?

BeeQueen · Post by **BeeQueen** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:51 pm

Ha! Yes, I’ll buy two bridges because I’m sure you’ll give me a two-for-one deal (separate shipping applies)!

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:52 pm

BeeQueen · Post by **BeeQueen** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:55 pm

Hey - I didn’t say I believed in spiritboxes; I only asked for a possible URL.

I am interested in those bridges though!

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:53 am

Sorry for any offense. I didn't mean it maliciously. Glad you're a good sport about it.

Fargo · Post by **Fargo** » Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:22 pm

For now, let's go by Lizzie's voice on The Simpsons.

Shani1968 · Post by **Shani1968** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:37 pm

amber_g27 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 am Hello, my ex boyfriend went to the Lizzie Borden house back in May of 2017, and he called me, to do a spiritbox session with the Bordens. If you don't know what a spiritbox is, it's a radio with white noise that sweeps in reverse through frequencies and it's allowing you to hear spirit voices. I've always known what mister Bordens voice sounded like, very very deep and low, almost scary sounding.
When i asked questions directed to Lizzie, i would get a female voice coming through that sounded very calm, she also sounded very masculine, you could hear it was a female but she had a very deep and low voice for a female, and it's exactly what i expected her to sound like!

I am skeptical about EMP and spirit boxes but I have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing someone actually use one in front of me. I am just curious.

Shani1968 · Post by **Shani1968** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:39 pm

Shani1968 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:37 pm
amber_g27 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 am Hello, my ex boyfriend went to the Lizzie Borden house back in May of 2017, and he called me, to do a spiritbox session with the Bordens. If you don't know what a spiritbox is, it's a radio with white noise that sweeps in reverse through frequencies and it's allowing you to hear spirit voices. I've always known what mister Bordens voice sounded like, very very deep and low, almost scary sounding.
When i asked questions directed to Lizzie, i would get a female voice coming through that sounded very calm, she also sounded very masculine, you could hear it was a female but she had a very deep and low voice for a female, and it's exactly what i expected her to sound like!
I am skeptical about EMP and spirit boxes but I have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing someone actually use one in front of me. I am just curious.

It would be interesting to know what her voice sounded like but unfortunately we will never know.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:38 am

It would be interesting to know what her voice sounded like but unfortunately we will never know.

Not high on my list of disappointments!

patsy · Post by **patsy** » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:32 am

Well we may never know but while we're at it I have to say I have often wondered what she might have said and sounded like when she may have stubbed her toe at some point in life. Probably much different than my reactions and words when such as that happens.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:56 pm

Let's hope so. Murdering your parents is one thing, but swearing when you stub your toe is just plain outrageous!

Mara · Post by **Mara** » Mon May 06, 2019 3:16 am

Hi, folks. Been away for a while moving to a new house and other things, but wanted to add something to this fascinating thread. Remember Lizzie saying that she never did anything in a hurry? Hope I’m not mistaking a movie script for reality but if she indeed said that, we can infer that she spoke carefully and probably not harshly. She seemed obsessed with being considered a lady. On the other hand, those parties at Maplecroft....

Steve88778 · Post by **Steve88778** » Fri May 07, 2021 11:53 pm

Judging by the way she acted at her inquest it sounds like she was a strong woman with a very definite voice you can tell she had an attitude.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Sat May 08, 2021 8:46 am

She seemed obsessed with being considered a lady. On the other hand, those parties at Maplecroft....

and the murders.

camgarsky4 · Post by **camgarsky4** » Sat May 08, 2021 12:04 pm

Thanks Constantine for a good laugh!

By the way, your "signature" quote of Knowlton is key....if Lizzie could get that permanently upside over 'losing' a tiny fraction of her Father's estate , why does anyone struggle with the notion that Andrew considering donating substantial property to charity and non-profits would have put her over the edge. Since John seemed to share what he knew about the estate with Emma, then I'm sure he shared the recent philanthropic considerations of Andrew. And no doubt as part of that estate reset, he was going to carve out a portion for Abby. The cumulative effect of those two decisions likely would have reduced Lizzies 'birthright' by 30-50%. Based on her extreme and unapologetic overreaction to the Abby house, murder is definitely not out of the realm of possibility for Lizzie.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Sat May 08, 2021 8:22 pm

Thanks! I agree with what you say. That, the "premonitions," her hostile remarks concerning Abby, the conversation with Emma overheard by Hannah Reagan, the attempt to buy prussic acid and the dress burning are enough for me.

Steve88778 · Post by **Steve88778** » Sat May 15, 2021 11:27 pm

Hi !

Steve88778 · Post by **Steve88778** » Mon May 17, 2021 8:09 pm

The only voice we will ever hear from Lizzie Borden's day is Nance O'neill's from some film clips. There are a couple on YT

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