Lizzie Borden Society Forum

XOXO @ chapeau!

I do think it best to make it... I can make a better one for less than $40.

I think I will make a navy blue, sort of a bengaline or India silk skirt, with a navy blue blouse. If it is an afternoon Halloween activity I will go with a pink wrapper.

Just had to share this, its so lame!!! MSNBC News has an article about historys greatest unsolved crimes, the top 10 of all time. I thought, oh ho, Lizzie is sure to show her face here, nope, nothing, no mention of the Borden murders whatsoever!

Heres a link so you can see what made the list:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6124626?GT1=5936

Audrey @ Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:16 pm wrote:I do think it best to make it... I can make a better one for less than $40.

I think I will make a navy blue, sort of a bengaline or India silk skirt, with a navy blue blouse. If it is an afternoon Halloween activity I will go with a pink wrapper.

I think there's a cheap sale on goods at Sargents over on North Main. 8-1/2 cents a yard.

Hopefully it's not over. Hopefully Sargents is still there.

Nope in both cases.

I was really trying to decide if I should use the gift card my co-worker gave me to buy THE SIMPSONS, SEASON 5 on DVD today. True, it has the famous Apu "Qwikie-Mart" song, and the outstanding "Bart Simpson's Dracula." But...

Then, I realized, it also contains the spoof of "The Devil and Daniel Webster," in which Homer sells his soul for a doughnut, and the jury includes...Lizzie Borden!

Even if she's wearing short-sleeves (!), it's still LIZZIE!

Just checked the MSN list, Susan. Lame is right! And Hoffa's murder was solved this year; this assignment was not given to a true crime buff by any means. Tupac???? Puh-lease!
Any suggestions for a revised list?

--Lyddie

Just watched a show on the Travel Channel; World's Creepiest Destinations part 1, the Lizzie Borden B & B came in at number 1!!!

10. Bermuda Triangle

9. Haunted Hollywood

8. Tower of London

7. Mütter Museum of Medical History

6. Gettysburg
5. New Orleans

4. Salem

3. Roswell

2. Winchester Mystery House

1. Lizzie Borden Bed-and-Breakfast

thanks for top ten crimes, susan - v good!

Lizzie has become a character in the Marvel Comics universe.

Does anyone have any smelling salts?

Lynn

Thanks, Lynn. Boy, that was wrong on so many levels! They even have the real life Andrew Borden dying from 13 hatchet blows that included some whacks to his arm.

I always liked the friday the 13th series. Thanks. That sounds like a cool show that you were watching bob

I just heard from a friend that Mary Higgins Clark's new novel, No Place Like Home, was inspired by the Borden case:

"I, Celia Foster Nolan, formerly Liza Barton, the child the tabloids dubbed 'Little Lizzie Borden,' am far less likely to be recognized as that chubby-faced little girl with golden curls who was acquitted -- not exonerated -- of deliberately killing her mother and trying to kill her stepfather."

Susan @ Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:09 am wrote:Just watched a show on the Travel Channel; World's Creepiest Destinations part 1, the Lizzie Borden B & B came in at number 1!!!

10. Bermuda Triangle

9. Haunted Hollywood

8. Tower of London

7. Mütter Museum of Medical History

6. Gettysburg
5. New Orleans

4. Salem

3. Roswell

2. Winchester Mystery House

1. Lizzie Borden Bed-and-Breakfast

There's an entire branch of the travel industry known as "thanatourism" or sometimes "thanatotourism" -- traveling to places associated with horror or violent death.

I have to say my limited travel has taken me to a remarkable number of those places: I've been to the Tower of London, often to the Mutter Museum and Gettysburg, and several times to Salem, Mass. I drive by the Winchester Mystery House occasionally, and I plan to go there soon with a friend. And my trip east this year will definitely include the Lizzie Borden B&B.

Lynn

The Winchester house is definitely cool, I've been there once and would love to go again! Haven't been to the Mutter museum, Tower of London New Orleans (as an adult), or the Lizzie Borden B&B, they're all on my list of places I hope to get to one day!

We were at The Tower, and met an American TV star there!
Andrea Markovitcie (sp?). She played Gonzo's love interest on Trapper John , MD. She's also a piano-bar singer- just wonderful!

I would love to see the Winchester Mansion. It would have to be a pretty creepy place. All those stair cases the lead nowhere and doors that open up to nothing, or to a sizeable drop to the ground below. The sheer size of the place would creep me out, it sounds like a very confusing maze. But knowing all that other stuff is going on makes it a definite must see! If I ever get the chance that is. And it's rumored to be haunted!

Susan @ Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:51 pm wrote:The Winchester house is definitely cool, I've been there once and would love to go again! Haven't been to the Mutter museum, Tower of London New Orleans (as an adult), or the Lizzie Borden B&B, they're all on my list of places I hope to get to one day!

I see you're also on the Left Coast, though a bit south of me.

I know the Mutter Museum and Gettysburg because I'm a Pennsylvanian; my family used to stop in Gettysburg every year on the way from upstate PA to Washington, DC, to spend Easter with my paternal grandparents; my father has since been buried there, and my mother now lives nearby. (Those facts are not related.)

As for the Mutter, I used to live in Philadelphia, and I spent time in all the museums: the jewel-box Rodin Museum, the magnificent Museum of Art, the cozily gruesome Mutter, the archaeological treasure-house of the University of Pennsylvania Museum. There are a lot more--it's a wonderful city for history and culture, as well as for walking.

Lynn

I have started a tradition of taking my nieces and nephews on a trip to a "different" kind of place when they graduate from high school. I have a nephew who is into drawing human anatomy. Muscles...bones...etc. He would make an excellent illustrator for medical textbooks. However I do think he wants to take more of an 'artsy' route with his creations. He has mentioned that the Mutter Museum is a place he'd like to go for his trip. It sounds like fun.


Tracy...

The Whaley house in San Diego is really cool too. In Chicago there is a cememtary called ressurction cememtary, where ressuraction Mary is said to walk around, even on the street running by it. I never did see anything at these two places,though. Geuss the spooks don't like me.

I always liked the twightlight zone that show was always a bit wierd. And what about the show, Stories from the Crypt that used to be on?

Last night I was flipping through the latest FANGORIA magazine, which I used to buy religiously and now only occasionally.

In the editor's coilumn he mentioned their new venue, HDTV programming. I had read about them sending a crew to The House, and the column expanded on that, and mentioned that the next issue of the magazine will include coverage of their trip to "Falls (sic) River."

Here's a link to the online site:
http://www.fangoriatv.com/news.html

Can't get away from her!

I recently purchased a book of NY Times Sunday crossword puzzles. While attempting to solve one, titled "Heavies" (in this case meaning bad guys) Lizzie Borden was the answer to the clue which read:

82 across - Orphan in a "choppy" rhyme.

Susan @ Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:09 am wrote:Just watched a show on the Travel Channel; World's Creepiest Destinations part 1, the Lizzie Borden B & B came in at number 1!!!

10. Bermuda Triangle

9. Haunted Hollywood

8. Tower of London

7. Mütter Museum of Medical History

6. Gettysburg
5. New Orleans

4. Salem

3. Roswell

2. Winchester Mystery House

1. Lizzie Borden Bed-and-Breakfast

I have that recorded at home and I personally think my house should be on it's haunted

Sorry if this has been posted before, but, I thought it was cool. A drawing of Lizzie sold as a poster.

Click on the link to see it: http://www.madametalbot.com/pix/posters/lizzie2.htm

Thanks! Stefani has that poster. I just saw it 2 weeks ago for the first time. It's amazing! It's pretty big, too.

Actually I just had a Lizzie-In-Popular-Culture Moment 2 nights ago.
"Crossing Jorden" takes place in Boston. It's on repeats Mon-Thursday nights at 11 p.m. on A&E. (And at 3 a.m. )

Nigel was providing a Murder/Ghost/History Tour of Boston and brought his group up to the morgue. He was dressed in period costume. He was kicked out by M.E. Macey, and as Nigel shepherded his group to the elevator he quipped, *Now off to see where Lizzie Borden bought her burgers!*

That poster is sold regularly on eBay and it is of very good quality. We put an antique frame on it.

Becky - I thought you were tired of the same old Lizzie things being sold on eBay?

"Tired"? I don't think I used that word. I think I said I've never seen anything all that good, all those goth dolls and usual schlock. But yes, we have purchased Lizzie things off ebay, and the poster was from an original contemporary drawing and of very high quality. The books on the case on Lizzie are way over priced on ebay and can be purchased from the WWW at diffrent sites for much, much less. I don't recommend eBay for TRUE collectibles. Most of the contemporary merchandise has little collectible value. Once in a while a rare book will pop up and it might go at a reasonable price, but I've been able to find so much more in antiquarian book stores and book fairs here in NYC than I've ever seen on eBay. If you are into collecting old postcards and phototgraphs of Fall River and surrounding cities there are often good opportunities, but not specific to the Borden case. But yes, over the last ten years we have purchased several Lizzie related items on eBay but I tend to be very, very selective about what we buy. For example, there are Lizzie collector plates commissioned by the Fall river Historical Society that is currently on eBay. They were issued in limited number and are true collectibles. But as to the mousepads, bumper stickers, etc., that's just not the type of "collectibles" we acquire. Certainly others may like that and enjoy, and that's wonderful for them. But I don't consider them truly "collectible" items for our collection. To others, they very well may be. I like to watch for the really scarce or unique or one of a kind opportunities be it eBay or elsewhere.

Yes, there has been some real awful stuff on eBay. Some books people would order would smell like cigarette smoke! (That's if they received their order at all - it was that nasty woman who kept getting kicked off of eBay for gypping people.) Someone was selling some bookmark with Emma on it that was so lame - claiming it was a rare collectible.

I'm glad I got my chimney brick right at the House!

Bob: Did the chimney brick smell of smoke? LOL!

I bought the same poster awhile back. I hesitated to puchase it because on the computer the face didn't look that much like Lizzie. After recieving the poster I was happy to find that the face looks very much like Lizzie. I guess the picture quality does not always come through that good on the computer.

Evan Hunter (aka Ed McBain), the author of the novel Lizzie, has died. As Evan Hunter, he may otherwise be most well known for the script of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds.

Thanks to Hunter, generations of TV documentary watchers will believe that Lizzie and Maggie, wearing anachronistic undergarments, were discovered in the midst of a lesbian tryst in the guest room by Abby.

As you may remember, every other chapter of his thick novel on the case was drawn directly from court testimony. Nice work if you can get it, says I.

what a coincidence. i just ordered that book the other day.

Bob Gutowski @ Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:53 pm wrote:I'm glad I got my chimney brick right at the House!

I've got a chimney brick from the House, too!
I got it March a year ago, on my first visit to the house.
~~~~~
I was just reading a news item from an unknown newspaper, dated July 14, 1984, entitled "Lizzie Borden's 'super star quality' " and it begins:
"One Sunday afternoon in December, 1963, when I was manager of the Durfee Theatre we presented a lavish production of 'The Ballet Folklorico of Mexico.' The show boasted a huge cast of nearly a hundred. As the buses, containing the cast, pulled up to the theatre, I went out to greet the preformers. A wiry young Mexican dancer leaped to the street and his first question to me was 'Could you please show us Lizzie Borden's house?'

Shortly before the matinee, I took the group of dancers to the former Borden residence on Second Street. The dancers were leaving immediately after the matinee. They were already costumed for the afternoon performance, but so anxious were they to see the Borden house, they hopped on the bus for a quick view. Startled occupants of passing cars gaped in amazement as the befeathered, bejeweled entertainers, jabbering in Spanish, posed for snaps before the edifice.

Nearly every star who appeared in theatres I managed - including Maurice Chevalier, Liberace and Tallulah Bankhead - queried me about the woman who possessed super star quality in her own right - Lizzie Borden."

Magnifico. Isn't that the cutest story?

When Mick and Jay and I were prowling around Second Street and environs last Saturday morning, we made our way to South Main, and we went ino the used bookstore and I made a purchase. A little later on the street we ran into the younger of the two bald men who work there, and he noticed our little group and Mick's camera, and exclaimed "Tourists in Fall River?" I said, "I can explain it in two words - Lizzie Borden." He replied, with a smile, "Oh, yeah!"

I'm reading The Devil in the White City, about the 1893 Chicago World's Fair and the serial killer known as H. H. Holmes. On page 12, the author, Erik Larson, quite simply states "But things were changing. Everywhere one looked the boundary between the moral and the wicked seemed to be degrading. Elizabeth Cady Stanton argued in favor of divorce. Clarence Darrow advocated free love. A young woman named Borden killed her parents."

Well, allegedly, Erik!

I also picked up Marjorie Conn's collected plays, published under the title Lost Lesbian Lives. Her play Miss Lizzie A. Borden Invites You to Tea is among these.

Even the title seems wrong. As "Lizzie" herself points out to the audience during their "visit" on the 21st anniversary of the slayings, she's long since taken the name "Lizbeth." Was Conn afraid that calling the play Lizbeth Borden Invites You to Tea might be too confusing?

I'm not sure that Conn's portrait of Lizzie as a lesbian can be taken with more than a grain of salt, as comforting as it would be to suppose that Miss Borden did indeed find some happiness during the Maplecroft years.

I have to admit I expected more and, maybe in performance there is more. Still, I could spot where her borrowings from Victoria Lincoln showed up, and where her paraphrasing of the William Bast screenplay peeked in, and where her hint of incest is placed. She makes wonderful use of quotations from Macbeth as well but, finally, I just didn't buy it. It's the equivalent of one of those current theater songs from shows like Ragtime, in which a character plants his feet center stage and sings at you for way too long.

I still think Blood Relations did it better, and Ms. Conn's attempt at a comparable final twist is somewhat flat-footed.

That's weird you brought that book up! Just last night I stumbled upon a notation I had made, from the book The Devil in the White City, pg. 375, on bromides! I had earlier posted that bromides were stronger than people thought and found my source.
They were referred to as:

"mood altering drugs called bromides."

BTW: That's a really good book!

A very good book! And I just read about the 1890 laying of the cornerstone for Chicago's new 21-floor Women's Christian Temperance Union Temple. I'll bet THAT was discussed at the meetings in Fall River in the Andrew J. Borden Building!

Tomorrow, the DVD set of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents: Season One" will be released. This group of 39 shows includes #17, "The Older Sister," based on the play "Goodbye, Miss Lizzie Borden."

hey, that's great news!

Cool something for me to look at on Lizzie.

I got the set, even though my trusty across-the-street J&R was closed yesterday for the Jewish holiday.

SPOILER!

So, I think I've figured out the mystery of "The Older Sister." I've never seen it without the ending shortened - I've always assumed that I was missing the finale as written in the original play, Goodbye, Miss Lizzie Borden, by Lillian de La Torre. That is, Lizzie, furious at hearing the child outside her house chanting the famous quatrain, chops a parlor table to bits. Certainly, Hitch specifically refers to this in his end segment.

Lat night I saw the show uncut, and guess what? No chopping. It ends with a terrific pull back as Lizzie sits on the sitting room sofa (yes, it's supposed to be THAT one), stroking her cat, resigned to her fate.

The explanation? Hitch shot numerous wrap-around segments in one session, often before the shows themselves were made. Somewhere along the line someone, a censor or another exec, said, "No, no chopping - too violent, given the story-line." A different ending was shot, even though the beginning of the episode establishes the child playing outside, singing and being upbraided by her mother. Hitch's wrap-up was never reshot, and maybe they just hoped no one would notice. (Hmm. I wonder if BOTH endings were actually shot?)

And why has the ending always been shortened, and why has the opning with the child always been trimmed, too? More time for commercials!

Bob Gutowski @ Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:26 pm wrote:Tomorrow, the DVD set of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents: Season One" will be released. This group of 39 shows includes #17, "The Older Sister," based on the play "Goodbye, Miss Lizzie Borden."

You can find the DVD at this site:

http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/showre ... p3?ID=7998

Priced from $25.99 to $34.99.

Circle the date - January 31, 2006. The classic Cimarron, with a great one-scene performance (early on, too) by Lizzie's buddy, Nance, comes out on DVD!

There's a play up at the hosue that I love reading when I go up there. Of course when I'm trying to think of the title, I can never do so, but I can tell you it's quite old, red in color, hard-bound, and starts out with a huge monologue by a character before opening up to the police station. Great play! Out of all the Lizzie plays I have read (i'm a theater fan) this one beats all?

Does anyone else know which one i'm talking about?

Ben

Slaughter on Second Street by David Kent.

Wonderful, touching story of how Kent wrote it with hopes of seeing it performed in Fall River, but died before it was eventually done there.

As a playwright, I can't agree with you about its quality, though. It seems more like a pageant to me, with everyone trooping down to the police station to hold forth.

My favorite Borden-inspired plays are Blood Relations by Sharon Pollack and Goodbye, Miss Lizzie Borden by Lillian De La Torre (which was made into the "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" episode we've discussed above, "The Older Sister." Neither of them is strictly factual, but drama has demands that documentary doesn't).

Bob Gutowski @ Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:43 pm wrote:Circle the date - January 31, 2006. The classic Cimarron, with a great one-scene performance (early on, too) by Lizzie's buddy, Nance, comes out on DVD!

Well, of course I want to see it. I've been doing a bit of reading up on Nance and I was surprised at just how unhappy this woman was. At one point she wished she had never gone into acting. The long hours and all of the rehearsals really wore her out mentally and she had several nervous breakdowns. She even disappeared at one point. Nance said of acting and it's demands, "Not all that glitters is gold."

We just watched Rob Zombie's "House Of 1000 Corpses" this weekend, there is a Lizzie reference in it. Its a typical slasher type film along the lines of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, so, unless you are into that type of movie, I wouldn't recommend it. Lizzie appears as an animatronic figure in a murder themed haunted house type of ride.

In this Sunday's New York Times Book Review there is a humorous cartoon on the last page by Rick Meyerowitz. In spoofing the curmudgeonly literary reviewer Dale Peck, who called his last collection of pieces Hatchet Jobs, Meyerowitz has rendered Peck at work, sneer on his lips. Above him are eight of his supposedly upcoming volumes. One of them is entitled Lizzie Borden was an Amateur, with a drawing of our gal wielding a hatchet with a mischievous look on her kisser!

Jay and I saw the new opera An American Tragedy Wednesday night at Lincoln Center. The story has been moved back from the novel's 1922 setting to 1906. In one scene set in a parlor, a familiiarly shaped sofa was moved on, and a stout woman in a black dress had an operatic argument with a rich man. I nudged Jay and whispered "Abby and Andrew!"