Lizzie Borden Society Forum

doug65oh @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:09 am wrote:Well, all the back & forth debate about Susan Atkins has become moot. She's dead, at 0246 Eastern Time this morning. Details at http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/25/cal ... index.html

When I read that article about her it really chilled me about her son being named Paul, the same name that Sharon Tate's unborn son would have been given.

Thanks for posting that link to Susan's death, Doug. Her suffering is now over and the victim's families can now feel justice has been served.

May she rest in peace.

Angel @ Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:36 pm wrote:... When I read that article about her it really chilled me about her son being named Paul, the same name that Sharon Tate's unborn son would have been given.

I know exactly what you are saying, Ellen. I also felt chilled when I read it. Really leaves you with an eerie feeling, doesn't it?

Well, this must be the month of Manson news. Roman Polanski was arrested by the Swiss police near Paris, where he attended the burial of a French film maker yesterday.

He was arrested for the U.S.'s charge of his messing around with a 13 year old years ago, which prompted his fleeing the US all these years.

They gave his age as 76.

I didn't know Susan Adkins had a son. Thanks for posting the link, Dougoh and Angel. Apparently she had him at the Spahn ranch and no one in her family would take him when she was arrested. He was adopted, and the adopting family re-named him "Paul". Maybe they did it on purpose because of Sharon Tate's unborn "Paul".

Twinsrwe - Thank you very much for your earlier post on this thread that explained about the death penalty and stuff, including all the URL's you cited. I read it all. It was all good stuff! Thank you.

augusta @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:01 am wrote:Well, this must be the month of Manson news. Roman Polanski was arrested by the Swiss police near Paris, where he attended the burial of a French film maker yesterday.

He was arrested for the U.S.'s charge of his messing around with a 13 year old years ago, which prompted his fleeing the US all these years.

They gave his age as 76. ...

Yes, I read about Roman Polanski's arrest - He could be extradited to the United States to face 32-year-old charges of having sex with a 13-year-old girl. According to the research I did, he was born on August 18, 1933. So, he had to have been 44 years old at the time he was messing around with this kid. But, get this: Polanski's victim, Samantha Geimer, has joined Polanski in trying to have the charges dismissed, saying she wants the case to end. Will wonders ever cease?

Sources: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000591/ and http://www.seattlepi.com/tvguide/410565_tvgif27.html

augusta @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:01 am wrote:... I didn't know Susan Adkins had a son. ... He was adopted, and the adopting family re-named him "Paul". Maybe they did it on purpose because of Sharon Tate's unborn "Paul".

Hmmm, interesting thought. If it's true he was name after Sharon's unborn son, then I think it is a pretty cruel thing to do on the part of his adoptive parents. I don't know if Susan's son knows who his biological mother is, but, if he does know, I would think he would be offended by having the same name as a baby who was murdered by her.

augusta @ Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:01 am wrote:... Twinsrwe - Thank you very much for your earlier post on this thread that explained about the death penalty and stuff, including all the URL's you cited. I read it all. It was all good stuff! Thank you.

You're welcome, Augusta. I'm glad you enjoyed reading them.

Polanski was 44 when that happened with the 13 year old? That's pretty bad. I heard he said it was "consentual". Well, the law doesn't care about that.

Yes, twinsrwe, I did hear that the victim wants to drop the case. And that the court puts a lot of weight into how the victim feels as to the person's punishment. I wonder if he paid her off.

Interesting musings about Susan Adkins' son. My God, what would a child or even if they're older, do if they found out they were hers? It's a paralyzing thought.

Ted Bundy has a child. If you're a Bundy reader, you may recall that he proposed to his wife in the courtroom during one of his trials. I wanna say her name was Vicki and was one of his attorneys, but I'm not positive. But they managed to get together (I read it was like in the visiting room and the guard ignored it.)

I wonder if children can inherit criminal or murderous tendencies? I don't remember any cases where the child of a killer murdered somebody.

Spanish pianist Alicia de Larrocha died on September 25. Not listed on any of the "dead or alive" sites I've checked. Too esoteric?

She was regarded as practically the definitive interpreter of the Spanish repertoire (though I don't believe in definitive interpretations of anything).

Certainly a very fine musician, but I hate to say that I found her playing a trifle bloodless. But that seems to be a minority opinion (though not unique to me).

Hadn't heard of her death, Constantine. That's too bad.

They had a segment on Polanski on The Today Show this morning. All these Hollywood people are supporting him. Debra Tate, Sharon's sister who has always been a victim's advocate (they said she's kept in touch with Polanski all these years) surprisingly said there's something wrong with our legal system in the statutory rape section. I was so surprised when she said he shouldn't get anything. Celebrities are saying, "It wasn't rape rape!"

Well, gee. He drugged her and then had sex with a 13 year old girl. Ha - someone in a clip referred to the 13 year old as a "young woman". I disagree.

There are a lot of people in prison for just this thing. But Polanski shouldn't be punished

In a project on crime I researched, it said you don't see any rich people on death row. It's quite true that if you have money, you walk. I would tell Debra Tate that's what's wrong with the legal system (plus a lot of other stuff... ). I'm surprised Phil Spector was sent to prison.

Please give to the Edwin Porter grave marker fund. See the main page of 'The Hatchet' to donate.

According to the internet Bruce Gordon is still alive and is 93 years old.

Bruce Gordon played Frank Nitty in the original "Untouchables" TV series with Robert Stack.

Speaking of famous people, anyone remember who died in a car accident 54 years ago today ?

I was going to guess Kovaks, Mansfield, but Googled James Dean.

augusta @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:15 pm wrote:... Ted Bundy has a child. If you're a Bundy reader, you may recall that he proposed to his wife in the courtroom during one of his trials. I wanna say her name was Vicki and was one of his attorneys, but I'm not positive. But they managed to get together (I read it was like in the visiting room and the guard ignored it.) ...

From the research I did regarding Bundy's child, his wife's name was Carole Ann Boone. (Highlighting is mine.)

After the Chi Omega trial, Bundy was tried for the Kimberly Leach murder in 1980. He was again convicted on all counts and sentenced to death. During his trial for the Kimberly Leach murder, while Bundy was acting as his own attorney, he married Carole Ann Boone in the courtroom as the trial was being conducted. Following numerous conjugal visits between Bundy and his new wife, Boone gave birth to a daughter in October 1982. Eventually Boone moved away, divorced Bundy, and changed her and her daughter's last name. Both of their whereabouts are unknown.
Source: http://www.mysterycrimescene.com/ted-bundy.html

This is from Ann Rule. (Highlighting is mine.)

Ted Bundy was executed at Raiford Prison in Starke, Florida on January 24, 1989. His wife, Carole Ann Boone, divorced him three years earlier. The child they had together, allegedly conceived in the Visiting Area of Death Row, is about 23 now. I have deliberately avoided knowing anything about Ted's ex-wife and daughter's whereabouts because they deserve privacy. I don't want to know where they are; I never want to be caught off guard by some reporter's question about them. All I know is that Ted's daughter has grown up to be a fine young woman. Today, a whole new generation of women have read about the infamous Ted Bundy and want to know more about him. I put everything I ever found out about him in the updated version of The Stranger Beside Me, published in 2000 on the 20th Anniversary of the first publication. You can track his travels there.
Source: http://www.annrules.com/news3.htm

augusta @ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:15 pm wrote:... Interesting musings about Susan Adkins' son. My God, what would a child or even if they're older, do if they found out they were hers? It's a paralyzing thought. ...

Yes, it is a paralyzing thought. I also think is quite disturbing that Charles Manson is the biological father of 3 known sons.

Charles M. Manson Jr. ~ Born in 1956 to Charles Manson and his 1st wife Rosalie Jean Willis. He commited suicide in 1993.

Charles Luther Manson ~ Born April 10, 1963 to Charles Manson and his 2nd wife Leona Rae "Candy" Stevens. This child disappeared so successfully, that he is often reported as "allegedly" existing...

Michael Brunner ~ Born April 1, 1968 to Charles Manson and Mary Brunner. Mary was the first member of The Family.

The above information was taken directly from the following link. For a real eye-opener, check out the 1st video in this link. In the 2nd and 3rd videos, we meet Michael Brunner, who gives us some insight into what it is like knowing Charles Manson is his biological father: http://laist.com/2007/10/30/where_are_manso.php

Twinsrwe, Yes! Carole Ann Boone! That's who Bundy married! Do you remember how they met? Was she a pen pal, or an attorney?

Thank you for all the work you put into your post!

So she and Bundy had "numerous" conjugal visits! Wow. If they wanted a baby, instead of them allowed to do that (whether allowed by the book, or just disregarded by the guards) it'd be better if they used insemination. Him having conjugal visits - and others like him - is horrible.

So they have one daughter. If Carole Boone divorced him, I wonder if she changed her mind about his guilt. If so, and she has his child, I wonder how she feels about having had his child. I guess I'm glad it was a girl and not a boy. That man was a fiend.

I didn't know Manson had three children. I think I read about one, probably the first one.

Thank you for the You Tube link. I didn't know he had a child with Mary Brunner. He looks so much like Mary Brunner. I wonder if by now he has re-established ties with Manson, as the tape was about 19 years old. I wonder where Mary Brunner is today.

Her delivery of him was wild! I wonder if all their deliveries on the ranch were successful. My first would have died without a doctor.

I was surprised to see the other day that John Hart died in September (2009). He played "Hawkeye" in the series that had Lon Cheney, Jr., as Chingachgook. He did one 'I Love Lucy", where she calls him out of her old boyfriend address book to make Ricky jealous, and Ricky has him really act like he's going after her. I think his name was 'Tom' in the show. I didn't know he was still alive! I'd have written him a fan letter.

Al Martino just died. He was the singer, "Johnny Fontaine" in 'The Godfather' and had some hits on his own. He was 82 and probably didn't have a long illness, as someone was quoted as having gone out to dinner with him on Monday evening and Mr. Martino looked fine.

Joseph Wiseman, the Canadian actor best known for playing Dr. No in the first James Bond movie, died yesterday. He was ninety-one.

Comedian Soupy Sales dies at age 83

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33442972/?gt1=43001

The actress Collin Wilcox passed away the other week too. Although she played many roles through the years, she's perhaps best known as 'Mayella Violet Ewell' in the 1962 film adaptation of Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird. It doesn't seem possible, but she was 74 years old.

She was absolutely perfect for that role, too, Doug65oh.
I've mentioned this on the Forum before, but it's a fascinating cultural nugget, so it bears repeating:
Michael Brown, composer of "The Fall River Hoedown" ("You Can't Chop Your Poppa up in Massachusetts") for the Broadway revue, "New Faces of 1952," was Harper Lee's good friend and benefactor. He presented her with enough cash one Christmas so that she could write full-time. His windfall was due to the success of the show.
Also interesting: "New Faces" featured Paul Lynde and Alice Ghostley, who were longtime TV costars of-- Elizabeth Montgomery!
Miss Ghostley was also featured in the film version of TKAM.

********************************************************
"Shut the door, and lock and latch it:
Here comes Lizzie with a brand-new hatchet!"

Aye, she was indeed perfect, DJ. I can almost hear the ‘Big Meltdown’ now actually - Mayella Ewell on the stand: “I got somethin' to say, and then I ain't gonna say no more: He took advantage of me. An' if you fine, fancy gentlemen ain't gonna do nothin' about it, then you're just a bunch of lousy, yella, stinkin' cowards, the - the whole bunch of ya, and your fancy airs don't come to nothin'. Your Ma'am'in' and your Miss Mayellarin' - it don't come to nothin', Mr. Finch!”

It seems odd to say, but Collin Wilcox gave in that one small moment one of the most chilling performances ever recorded on film I think. Mayella had given herself away, but came back like a tiger using the only weapon she had.

augusta @ Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:39 am wrote:Twinsrwe, Yes! Carole Ann Boone! That's who Bundy married! Do you remember how they met? Was she a pen pal, or an attorney? ...

According to the research I've done, they were co-workers at the Washington State Depart­ment of Emergency Services.

Sources: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/crim ... ss/21.html
and
http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?title=Ted_Bundy

augusta @ Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:39 am wrote:...Thank you for all the work you put into your post! ...

You're welcome.

augusta @ Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:39 am wrote:... I didn't know Manson had three children. I think I read about one, probably the first one.

Thank you for the You Tube link. I didn't know he had a child with Mary Brunner. He looks so much like Mary Brunner. I wonder if by now he has re-established ties with Manson, as the tape was about 19 years old. I wonder where Mary Brunner is today.

Her delivery of him was wild! I wonder if all their deliveries on the ranch were successful. My first would have died without a doctor.

You're welcome for the YouTube link. I agree that Micheal definitely looks like his mother; he doesn't resemble Manson at all. As for your question regarding where Mary is today, I found the following:

It is said that after her release she cut communication with Manson, changed her name, regained custody of her son and is living somewhere in the Midwest.

Source: http://crime.about.com/od/murder/ig/The ... bruner.htm

I agree that her delivery of Michael was wild, to say the least. It does make one wonder if all of the births were successful - the procedure doesn't sound very sterile or safe to me - it certainly opens up the possibly for all kinds of infections.

What I found appalling about the following video is the statement regarding the children smoking pot, dropping acid and participating in the family orgies. How sick is this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlWnto2D ... re=related

Fargo @ Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:43 am wrote:According to the internet Bruce Gordon is still alive and is 93 years old.

Bruce Gordon played Frank Nitty in the original "Untouchables" TV series with Robert Stack.

Speaking of famous people, anyone remember who died in a car accident 54 years ago today ?

James Dean, like Stargazer mentioned. He died not too far from the location where Hitchcock filmed the "cornfield" scene in "North By Northwest." The guy who hit Dean died not too long ago. That memory must have been a horrible thing to live with all those years.

-1bigsteve (o:

doug65oh @ Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:25 pm wrote:The actress Collin Wilcox passed away the other week too. Although she played many roles through the years, she's perhaps best known as 'Mayella Violet Ewell' in the 1962 film adaptation of Harper Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird. It doesn't seem possible, but she was 74 years old.

I just watched that scene a couple of days ago. I love that movie.

Does anyone know the proper way to pronounce her first name? Is it "Call-in" or "Coal-in?" I never could get that name right.

-1bigsteve (o:

Jennifer Jones died yesterday in LA at the age of 90 of natural causes.

So Mary Bruner lives in 'the Midwest'. I guess she did wanna get far away from The Family.

I didn't recall that about Carol Boone. Interesting.

I didn't even think about the infections the women could get. They had quite a few children on the ranch, didn't they? It's incredible, the things they were told to do.

Thanks for posting the Soupy Sales link. I didn't know what he died of. It sounds like cancer.

I think my favorite line from 'To Kill a Mockingbird' is when the man tells Scout to stand up - "That's yo' Daddy walkin' by." Great movie - beautiful book. The lady who played that "rape victim" - she was in a Twilight Zone episode, where she lived in a world where all the people looked pretty much alike - all gorgeous, and she didn't know if she wanted to have that surgery or not.

I didn't realize the character of Dill was supposed to be Truman Capote as a child.

Brittany Murphy died yesterday at the age of 32. She was a diabetic. An autopsy will be done to find out the cause of death.

I was Clueless as to who Brittany Murphy was- I had to Google her!

Arnold Stang & Connie Hines passed away just recently too. Stang was famous as the voice of TopCat, and (amongst many other roles) alongside Marvin Kaplin in It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. (Stang & Kaplin played the owners of the filling station demolished in the film.)

Connie Hines was otherwise known to television viewers as Carol Post in the series Mr. Ed.

I don't remember Stang but I liked Connie Hines. Too bad they're gone.

-1bigsteve (o:

Arnold Stang.

Oh, Carol from "Mr. Ed" passed away? I hadn't heard that. I always liked her.

I loved the way Connie Hines played the "clueless" role. Clint Eastwood had an appearance on that show as himself.

Don't you just hate it when you find out someone you really like has been dead for awhile and you didn't know it? Last night I found out that Teresa Brewer died in October 2007. I didn't even know she was dead. I liked her.

-1bigsteve (o:

Yes, BigSteve. It's upsetting to me to learn a celebrity I really liked died and I didn't know it.

Some guy on the web used to have a site where he posted about dead celebrities. He updated it well, and he would put up an obituary on each one, usually with a picture. I don't find his site anymore, so it's good to have this thread to keep up on them.

augusta @ Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:04 am wrote:Yes, BigSteve. It's upsetting to me to learn a celebrity I really liked died and I didn't know it.

Some guy on the web used to have a site where he posted about dead celebrities. He updated it well, and he would put up an obituary on each one, usually with a picture. I don't find his site anymore, so it's good to have this thread to keep up on them.

Augusta, you might try findadeath.com. It's a good site on the deaths of celebrities. I go through it now and then for updates. I too like this thread because we get notices about celebrity deaths in "real time."

-1bigsteve (o:

There are also deadoraliveinfo.com and dpsinfo.com and several others (links to at least some of which are provided in these).

Another favorite site of mine is http://www.genarians.com, which has info on really old people, living and dead.

Thanks for the links, BigSteve and Constantine. I'll visit them and bookmark them.

I've been wondering about a few celebrities lately that must have passed away but I had not heard about it.

I was surprised to read that Barbara McNair died in 2007. She was such a beautiful woman. I was always mesmerized by her in anything. Apparently she died of lung cancer.

I saw Gene Barry listed as having passed away on December 9, 2009. "Bat Masterson". I don't think anyone has posted him.

Miep Gies, the last survivor of those who hid Anne Frank, her family and other Jews from the Nazis, died yesterday at 100, apparently as a result of complications from a fall.

I know that's a great age, one I'll probably never reach, but I'm still sorry to hear it.

Actress Jean Simmons has died at the age of 80. In one of her most memorable roles she starred opposite Burt Lancaster, playing 'Sister Sharon Falconer' in the 1960 film Elmer Gantry.

She was quite a beauty, too. One of the last things I saw her in was "How to Make an American Quilt."

Teddy Pendergrass has also died recently.

I didn't even know Miep was still alive. 100 is a great age to reach. God bless her and may she rest in peace.

Pianist Earl Wild has died at the age of 94.

Oh, that's a shame about Meip dying. But she lived to 100! I hope she lived her life out in good health.

There's an older documentary that was on A & E like 15 years ago called something like, "The Man (or People) Who Hid Anne Frank" and they interview Meip on there. It's fascinating.

She wrote a book, which I read, and it was great. They made a movie about her, I think based on her book, and she was played by Mary Steinburgen (sp?).

Jean Simmons! I know her name is real famous but I can't place her face. It's too bad she is gone.

Jean Simmons also played the mother in "The Thorn Birds".

Thanks, Angel. Turner Classis Movies was just showing a movie with her in it today. I always recognize her face in a movie, but can't put a name to it.

I read The Thornbirds but didn't see the mini-series.

Pernell Roberts has died, age 81. Didn't know he was so active in the Civil Rights movement, that he participated in the march from Selma to Montgomery.

Jean Simmons resembled Elizabeth Taylor and starred in a great many costume epics during the 1950s. One of her early hits was "The Actress," with Spencer Tracy as her father, and also featuring Mary Wickes, whom we were discussing on another thread.

Pernell Roberts was the last of the Cartwright family cast from the Bonanza television series, they're all gone now. Dan Blocker, Lorne Greene, and Michael Landon all died between the early 1970s and the early 1990s.

Pernell Roberts! I didn't know. Well, he probably lived longer than the other Cartwrights.

Didn't Dan Blocker die in the 1960's? It seems I was in grade school when it happened. Boy, was that a shock.

I wonder if Victor Sen Yung (sp?) aka "Hop Sing" died. I remember after the series was over, he was a passenger in a plane and he was shot by someone, but I think he lived from that. Seems like someone told me he passed away a while back, but I can't remember now.

Dan Blocker passed away on 13 May 1972, aged 43 years.

Bad day for authors:

J. D. Salinger dies:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obit_salinger

Also, one of my Canadian favorites, author Paul Quarrington, passed away from lung cancer earlier today.

http://www.orilliapacket.com/ArticleDis ... ?e=2277190

augusta @ Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:04 pm wrote:... I wonder if Victor Sen Yung (sp?) aka "Hop Sing" died. ...

Yes, Victor Sen Yung died Nov 09, 1980 in North Hollywood, California.
Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/victor-sen-yung