Lizzie Borden Society Forum

They are based on Porter and his came out in 1893, so yes.
But the actual, physical measurements were made by Bill & Len personally in the last few years.
They measured the house *today* and wrote the numbers on Porter's plan -out of de Mille...there is some de mille here. What I mean is they looked at Porter's plan and measured now what they saw there, and put the numbers where they corresponded.
Technically, they could not measure, say, the kitchen sink room as is, because it is gone.

Ok, I just wondered if they are the same ones I have in the front of Victoria Lincolns book. They say adapted from Porter's Fall River Tragedy so I guess that answers my question. Thanks.Yeah the sink is gone so they would have to estimate using Porter's measurements.And the closet next to the fireplace in the sitting room is not there, thats the first thing that threw me off, but is it a really good rendering of how it should have looked.It's a shame we do not have more photographs of the house as it looked back then.

I revised my post while you were answering.
I don't have access to my Lincoln so I cannot verify what you see...because somehow de Mille has been added here. Do you have de Mille?

I revised my post also .No I do not have access to de Mille. I could scan in my plans from Lincoln so you could compare. There are just minor differences in these and the plan you posted.

My Lincoln is in the other room and is sleeping
I can look at it manyana.
Porter didn't measure, but he did provide plans.
However, the best plans are Kieran's and they are in de Mille.
There is a cellar plan of Kieran (the engineer who did the specs for the state) in Knowlton Papers.
So technically, I have 3 floors of Kieran but no attic.
They don't have measurements, tho they were trial exhibits.
Let me see if I can find them in my computer. I had scanned them and sent to the FRHS to verify they were "Kieran" plans and got a yes.

Here are the trial exhibit plans of the first and second floor of #92 Second Street from de Mille's a Dance of Death. They came from Jenning's Hip-bath Collection.
Technically, these plans supersede any others anywhere, being original and produced at trial. They are what the jury worked with.

So, I would assume since these were Trial exhibits that the placement of Lizzie and Emma's beds are correct? Interesting placement, how they are almost head to head. Lizzie's is in a really strange spot, I know I wouldn't want a doorway behind the head of my bed like that. I wonder why she didn't just put her dresser there if she wanted that doorway completely blocked off?

Sorry about the 3 views of 2 floors. I flipped the wrong floor.
I have fixed these so that the sitting room is below Lizzie's room.
If anyone saved these to their files yesterday or today, please exchange for these. They are more understandable.

Lizzie's bedroom seems as if she uniquly decorated it- also with portieres.
There was a steam heat radiator directly to the left of Lizzie's bed (as we face it) and between her bed and Emma's bedroom door. It's possible she wanted to sleep near the radiator.
She might also be further from the window over the street, which might have been noisy. She might also be closer to Emma's bed so they could talk after lights out. She also may have had easier access to listen at the adjoining bedroom door to the elder Bordens. I can think of a lot of reasons to put her bed there!

Yes, I can totally see what you mean about being close to the radiator in winter. Growing up in an old house with not much insulation or none, it was cold at night, even with the heat on. I can recall going to bed and being able to see my breath in the air.

Wasn't there a set of portieres over the door into the elder Borden's room also, something about Alice pulling them aside before the police could go in to Lizzie's room to search?

Prelim
Alice
295
Q. Do you remember anything they did up stairs?
A. I remember being up in Mr. And Mrs. Borden's rooms with some officer, I remember their asking me about the rooms that went out of it. The door into Miss Lizzie's room was hooked. They pulled the screw out, I judged. I remember I asked them to let me look in first; I did not know what the condition of the room was. I pulled the portiere aside, and looked in, and said it is all right, and they went in. I do not recollect whether I went in or not.

--I have taken the meaning to be that Alice encountered the curtain after the door was opened into Lizzie's bedroom. I probably believe this because apparently Lizzie had another portiere by her closet area.
She does say they pulled the screw out (on Lizzie's side) and then moved aside the curtain and then she looked in.

Here's some more:

Trial
Alice
385
Q. Won't you state what you observed with reference to that door?
A. I was in Mr. and Mrs. Borden's room while the officers were searching the house ---as I understand, and did then---the first time. They went through that room, looked into the little room opening out of Mr. and Mrs. Borden's room, and they started to open that, and found it locked, and they pulled it open. There was a portiere hanging on the other side.

and:


Trial
Desmond
Page 735

Q. You searched that room?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You understood that was Miss Lizzie's?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. You searched that bed in the same thorough manner?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And the little alcove?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. With the portiere over it?
A. Yes, sir.

Thanks for finding all that, Kat. The room actually sounds kind of nice with those hanging drapes here and there. I still don't know about that odd angle that Lizzie's bed was at, maybe the radiator blocked the way on that side of the bed making it impossible to make up in the morning?

I had a eastlake set with high bedstead, it was awkward to find aesthetic placement for the 3 pieces in my small bedroom and not block the light...I've also had doors in my bedroom that I've blocked off with beds and thought nothing odd of it...although I was careful about words being heard through the door *hint hint* old houses only the doors tell secrets...

Looking at the plans of Lizzie's room, the heater, and the windows (cold and light) I'd put the bed exactly where she did too...Then again I'm weird like that... regardless of the voices aspect although that could also be a positive for her.

Emma's bed seems in a reasonable place for that room given the layout and lighting.

I've had a queen sized bed on the diagonal in a corner before and put a stand in the triangle area it caused and stuck a big plant back there, tending to like unusual furniture placement as well.

I know I would gravitate to that radiator.

In my bedroom now I have a wall sized poster (it comes in sections and completely covers the wall) of the Bavarian castle of the Mad King Ludwig II, Neushwanstein. It's a close-up so you can almost see into the windows!