Lizzie Borden Society Forum

RGJ wrote:

Curryong wrote:You are ascribing a lot of motives for John Morse that just aren't there. What makes you think that he wanted to be married at his age in 1892?

I saw a reference last month, which of course I carefully filed for a challenge just as this :-( about how Morse made a sudden effort at socialization. It specifically mentioned upgrading his buggy, which had been a one plank seat, into something more likely to spur female endorphins (or whatever that is called). also mentioend an upgrade in clothes, and further mentioned be then gave up and reverted to his old penny-pinch ways.

I'll look for it.

A posted named Kat put this reference up here on the site in 20089 (it seems like she was a strong poster...thanks for this Kat, while you are departed I hope you aren't departed)

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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4377

Also, in the Evening Standard there is this about Morse's suit:

Friday August 19, 1892 Page 1

THE FALL RIVER MURDERS.

[subtitle] History of John V. Morse Learned
in Hastings, Ia.
. . . . . .

. . .Even after Morse became comparatively well off there was no laxation in his frugal practices. He would drive to town in an old rattletrap lumber wagon, using a pine board for a seat, when he could just as well have afforded a buggy. He would wear the same suit of clothes everywhere, and on all occasions, and one suit usually lasted him two or three years. Indeed, it is pretty certain that the suit he is now wearing at Fall River is the same one he wore when he left here two years ago.
Only once during the long period of his residence here did he show any inclination to take any comfort in life as he went along. One Winter he electrified everybody who knew him by purchasing a nice new buggy and a new suit of clothes. He suddenly showed a disposition to go into society, and all that Winter he attended parties and such other social gatherings as country and village life afforded.

Looking for a Wife.

It was evident that he was looking for a wife, but no girl seemed to take kindly to the long, lanky, awkward, hard-featured fellow, who dressed like a scarecrow and ate like a cormorant. This was no doubt the reason why when the Winter was over he sold his buggy, laid aside his store clothes and gave up his dream of connubial joy.
[etc]...
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Okay? christ. Admit he did it now.

I remember reading that, too, and when it didn't work after about six months he gave up and went back to his previous MO.

debbiediablo wrote:I remember reading that, too, and when it didn't work after about six months he gave up and went back to his previous MO.

I always wonder in cases like that if the individual may have discovered that they weren't actually interested in the opposite sex once they treated it as a live option.

Or, alternatively, if male, they discovered that it was easier and less disruptive to hire companionship now and then.

Men who were socially awkward must have found it quite hard in the 19th century. Social relationships between the sexes was so formal and ritualised. No popping into unmarried women's houses unless you were very close members of the family, formal introductions needed before speaking to female for the first time etc. Morse was socially inept, probably couldn't dance very well, if at all, couldn't sing or play a musical instrument so musical evenings (very popular then) were out. He was on the back foot to begin with!

Well now, it;s been a long time since I have visited and I see a fresh idea to play with. Yay!

The issue of body temperatures seems not to have been critical to the investigators. Times of death were determined by coagulation of blood surrounding the wounds, and autopsies focused in part on the degree to which food eaten earlier had made it through the digestive process.

Abby wasn't found on her knees, but prone, which is I guess what RGB meant. As to her core temperature as a means to footman time of death, as an obese person, she may have had a somewhat lower body temp and thus a correspondingly more sluggish digestion. I wonder if these things might have been taken into account when setting her time of death within a range, rather than pinpointing it more definitively.

I may not be able to spend much time here for the nonce, but I will enjoy reading all these fresh ideas :)

Mara, my old friend! Glad to see you back!
Forensics were so primitive in the 19th century, but, as I posted earlier, doctors then had at least one advantage. They were used to patients of all sizes and weights dying at home. Seeing death in all conditions, hot and cold, in unairconditioned homes from the start of their careers must have given them some experience, you would think. I know Masterson didn't accept the official time of death for Abby in his book, but few modern writers on the case have agreed with him.