Lizzie Borden Society Forum

I was reading through some of my New York Times articles again when I began to reread an article published on August 27, 1892. In it Bridget's testimony was described. There are a couple of things that stand out to me, althought I'm not sure why.

"Bridget Sullivan," called the District Attorney, and the interest of the crowd was at once raised to a high pitch. The girl looked pale and seemed frightened as she took the stand. She was handled gently by Mr. Knowlton.

" On the morning of the murder," she said." I was washing windows, and went into the house after a dipper, after getting through with the brush. I was then very near the end of the work. I think that the sitting room door leading from the front hall was shut. I saw nothing of Miss Lizzie nor of Mrs. Borden as I went around the house.

" There were three windows in the parlor, two in the dining room and two in the sitting room. The sink where the dipper was procured was on the east side of the kitchen. I should think it was 10:20 o'clock when I went into the house after the dipper to finish the windows. I washed the sitting-room side of the house first, and started to wash the parlor windows, and did not see Lizzie when I returned; went inside the house. On going inside I began washing the upper part of the the inside of one of the sitting-room windows. I had part of one window done when I went to the front door as I had heard some one rattling there with a key, and, supposing it was Mr. Borden, I went to let him in. I found that the bolt was across the door and the key turned in the lock.

"Whie I was trying to open the door, I heard Lizzie laughing up stairs in the front hall." The witness said she was surprised to hear Lizzie laugh, but explained that she had made an exclamation which she did not want to repeat, and this, she supposed. caused Lizzie to laugh. Bridget heard Lizzie talking to her father in the sitting room five or ten minutes later, and she saw Mr. Borden sitting on a chair in the dining room, reading. He had not finished reading when Lizzie came down and asked him if he had any mail for her. Bridget heard Lizzie tell her father that her mother had received a note and had gone out. Bridget was washing the windows at that time.

Mr. Borden took his room key from the mantel and went up stairs the back way. Bridget then took the stepladder and went into the dining room. She did not see Lizzie in the room, she said, nor in the kitchen. A few minutes later she saw Mr. Borden come back, place the key on the mantel, take a book and a chair, and sit near the window.

While the other windows were being washed Lizzie took a small ironing board and, placing it on the dining- room table, began to iron. She usually ironed her own handkerchiefs. Bridget said she did not hear Mr. Borden move while the windows in the dining room were being washed. Lizzie came to her and asked her if she was going out. If she was, Lizzie said, she wanted Bridget to lock the back door, as she herself might also go out. Mrs. Borden, Lizzie said, had received a note about a sick friend and had gone out.

The witness asked who the sick friend was, but Lizzie did not name her. Continuing, the witness said that she did nto stay up stairs more than three minutes. She heard the clock strike 11, and for about three minutes she lay on the bed. She did not remove her clothes. She had time enough to get dinner at 11:30 o'clock, but didn't look at the fire, and had not seen it since she washed the dishes. She did not put the flats on the stove, she said. The dinner was to have been soup and cold mutton, and if there had been no fire the witness would have had plenty of time to prepare it, even after she woke up.

She did not go in or out of the door, she said, after she came in from dashing water on the windows. She remained ten or fifteen minutes up stairs and came down in answer to a summons from Lizzie, who cried, ' Come quick; father is dead.' She hurried down an dwas about to go into the sitting room when Lizzie Borden called her back and told her to go for Dr. Bowen.

"I went for Dr. Bowen." said Bridget, " but he was not at home, and I told his wife and went back and told Lizzie, and she sent me after Mrs. Russell, who lives on Borden Street. I went and told her, and then returned ahead of her. When I got back Dr. Bowen had just stepped out of his buggy, and was in the house when I got in. Mrs. Churchill was there also. Lizzie was in the kitchen. I heard Dr. Bowen say that Mr. Borden was murdered. I said ' I wonder where Mrs. Borden is?' and Lizzie told me to go upstairs and look for her. I refused to go, and Mrs. Churchill agreed to go with me, and we went up and saw Mrs. Borden lying on the floor.

" We came back, and Mrs. Churchill told Dr. Bowen that Mrs. Borden was upstairs, and then I was taken into the cellar by two policemen, and we found some axes in a box. I never saw them before, paid no attention to the outside cellar door, but came back and asked Lizzie where she was when the people were killed.

"She said: I was out in the yard.' I don't remember what kind of dress Lizzie had on that morning, neither do I remember that she wore and apron."

"Was Mrs. Borden in the habit of telling you when she left the house?" asked Mr. Knowlton.

"I object," said Mr. Adams.

"Lizzie told me all that I know about Mrs. Borden's going out." said Bridget, paying no attention to the objection. The objection was, however, sustained by the court, and the answer was ruled out.

The court then adjourned until to-morrow at 10 o'clock.

Does anything in the article stand out to anyone else?

Well...this for starters (the bolding is mine):
"Lizzie told me all that I know about Mrs. Borden's going out." said Bridget...


Tracy...

That is one of the things that stood out to me also Tracy. Another one being that Bridget said that the door between the sitting room and the front hall was closed when she went in to get the dipper. Why was it shut?
I am not sure, but I don't see anywhere that Bridget mentions washing the outside of the dining room windows.

Wow did you type all that??!!
For myself, personally, I don't read the newspaper's versions of testimony. It's only confusing and is likely to muddle my memory for sworn facts.
Background items and articles which editorialize or speculate are about it for me. I don't even read the opening or closing arguments at trial, if I can help it.

*** I think that the sitting room door leading from the front hall was shut.***

Interesting item to bring into the present discussions.

I'm afraid I'm like Kat. Newspaper versions of sworn testimony, (unless absolutely necessary as when the original court testimony has disappeared) are muddling. However, it appears clear that Bridget reiterates, as she does throughout her testimony, that Lizzie was the only source of information about the note.
The family and Bridget were in the habit of closing doors behind them, I am sure. They were a security-minded household. They would have closed doors without even thinking.

There are a few interesting crumbs here, though. Bridget says she didn't remember what Lizzie wore that day OR IF SHE HAD WORN AN APRON! There's that pesky apron again, as in TWO aprons were buried with the bloody clothes. Curryong, you and I have had this discussion before and you suggested the extra apron could have been left by a doctor doing an autopsy or something. I thought that was a viable suggestion and still do, but the apron is mentioned in several places. I'd bet that presumably bloody apron was found upstairs with Abby's body, no matter who left it there. I'd bet the investigators would love to have proved Lizzie wore an apron that day, but couldn't. It seems to me if it was an apron such as a doctor/coroner may have worn it would be different from a woman's apron, perhaps more like a butcher's apron. I would think it unusual that anyone would think Lizzie wore a man's style work apron around the house. I would also think that if it was important to investigators they would have questioned the doctors and their assistants to see if any of them left or discarded such an apron.

Newspapers can be inaccurate but I don't think the mention of an apron came out of thin air.

I will admit that finding an extra woman's apron near Abby's body wouldn't help toward exonerating Lizzie but since the spare room was also the sewing room, the apron could have been there for mending, etc. For those who believe the hatchet went upstairs in clean laundry, an apron is a possibility since aprons would most likely have been washed on the recent wash day. I suggested it wouldn't be hard to hide a hatchet against the folds of a skirt, but you Curryong point out the skirts were made to be more form fitting at that time. I'm not sure a day dress/wrapper would necessarily be made that stylish, but if it was, an apron would be helpful in concealing a hatchet.

It's always important to look at all aspects of these things with the end goal being solving a mystery. Eventually maybe all the various crumbs will lead us to the solution, whatever it is. I still believe Lizzie is innocent but the apron is something to consider.

I find it odd that Bridget refers to Lizzie as Lizzie instead of "Miss Lizzie" (Emma would have been "Miss Borden" as the elder sister).

Bridget says Lizzie's comment about the note is all she new about the note. I still have lots of doubts about Bridget.

Hello, goddessoftheclassroom.
This is a newspaper that we are quoting from, though, not a court transcription. Could have been a typo from the 'New York Times' or, heaven forbid, even Allen herself! Actually, I think in other testimony Bridget does refer to 'Miss Emma', though you are correct, formally Emma was Miss Borden. Is Bridget a suspect in your opinion, or just knew who did it?

Hi, Curryong! I would expect the paper to add the "Miss" even if Bridget hadn't said it. I'm overthinking the importance of this...
I think Bridge thought Lizzie did it and was hoping to get paid off.

An interesting thought, goddess. So Bridget came to the conclusion that Lizzie had murdered her parents and was trying a little blackmail before she gave testimony?

To me this is HUGE. Lizzie told Bridget to lock the side door when she went out as Lizzie might be going out too...effectively keeping Bridget front leaving via the front door and passing through the parlor.

What puzzles me is why, if an apron was found in the guest room near Abby, it wasn't mentioned in Dolan's original report? I mean, the man went around counting blood marks on walls and yet didn't officially note a bloodied apron lying near the victim? Women's aprons in those days had a bib and sometimes fitted over the head, and I agree, a doctor's one would more likely to resemble a butcher's apron.

I admit the investigation was unbelievably sloppy, and why the list of bloody items of clothing etc wasn't itemised properly heaven knows! It is very frustrating! If the apron was Abby's and round her ample waist, why didn't they say so? If it was found in the guest room near her and could have been Lizzie's, why didn't Fleet, Dolan et al, seize on the possibilities like terriers with a rat?

debbie, I either aren't thinking properly today or I am unbelievably dumb naturally. (Both are a distinct possibility) but what is the huge significance of the closed sitting room door? Bridget never left no 92 by the front door anyway.

Sorry. I've got to start making entries at 2 AM...!!! The huge part is telling Bridget to be sure and lock the side door if she decides to go out...that Lizzie herself is planning to go out, too. Plus the dining room door also being shut. Lizzie was was trying to limit the possibility that Bridget would venture into the front part of the house where Lizzie was going to kill Andrew or else her accomplice was. Except everything got hurried along with Morse returning for lunch and perhaps spending the remainder of the day. I see all of this as subtle manipulation on Lizzie's part.

Thank you debbie. All's now clear! Are you still following the Oscar Pistorius case? Should be resuming shortly.

So Bridget had a small ladder after all.
Possibllity ,
of her seeing things in the parlor from outside?

Mr. Borden took his room key from the mantel and went up stairs the back way. Bridget then took the stepladder and went into the dining room. She did not see Lizzie in the room, she said, nor in the kitchen. A few minutes later she saw Mr. Borden come back, place the key on the mantel, take a book and a chair, and sit near the window.

Not sure I'm totally tracking....what are you thinking Bridget saw in the parlor?

I've always figured the step ladder was used for the inside windows because the long pole wouldn't work indoors. That viewpoint was formed by Bridget's trial testimony below. The step ladder is only mentioned when describing washing the inside sitting and dining room windows. Bridget never mentions Lizzie giving her any instructions about the parlor or any other windows. Of course, lizzie's inquest testimony is VERY different than Bridget's descriptions of the same time period.

As far as the step-ladder......just my interpretation of the following testimony. Still curious what you think Bridget might have seen and how that influenced the events after her possible sighting?

Bridget Sullivan Trial Testimony
Q. What were you doing in the kitchen?
A. Oh, I was cleaning off my stove and putting things in their places, and so forth, and when I got ready I went in the
dining-room and sitting-room and left down the windows which I was going to wash, and went down cellar and got a
pail for to take some water.
Q. Then you say you went in the dining-room and sitting-room and left down the windows?
A. Yes.
Q. And what did you do to them, exactly?
A. Well, the windows was up, and I left down the windows.
Q. Shut them up?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you shut the windows in both rooms?
A. Yes sir, there was a window up in both the rooms.
Q. Were the curtains up or down in the rooms?
A. There was no curtains there.
Q. Were the shutters closed or open?
A. They was open at the bottom, I remember.
Q. Did you change their position at the time you shut the windows -- the position of
the shutters?
A. No sir, I don't think I did.
Q. Up to the time when you shut the windows on the outside in those two rooms had you in any way closed the shutters
of the dining-room and the sitting-room?
A. No sir, I don't think I did.
Q. When you went in the dining-room and the sitting-room to close the windows did you see Miss Lizzie Borden there at all?
A. No sir, I didn't see anybody.
Q. From there you say you went down cellar?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What did you get down cellar?
A. A wooden pail.
Q. Where did you then go?
A. I came upstairs. In the kitchen closet I found a brush which was to wash the
windows with. I filled my pail with water in the sink and took it out doors. As I was outside the back door Lizzie
Borden appeared in the back entry, and says, "Maggie, are you going to wash the windows?" I says, "Yes." I said, "You
needn't lock the door; I will be out around here; but you can lock it if you want to; I can get the water in the barn."
Q. Did she make any reply to that?
A. I don't know, sir, she didn't.
Q. Now had you seen her between the time you left her in the kitchen eating her breakfast and the time she appeared at
the screen door as you went out with your pail of water and brush?
A. I don't remember to see her.
Q. Do you know what she did to the door?
A. She didn't hook it.
Q. Do you know where she then went as you went out doors?
A. No sir, I do not.
Q. You have said that, going out with your pail and your brush, you went to the barn?
A. I went to the barn to get the handle for the brush.

Couple other references to what equipment she had when washing the exterior windows.

Jenning Journal pg 77
Witnessed washing windows by Mrs. Mark P. Chace. 9:55 am on the north side parlor windows.
"I saw Bridget washing windows @ 9:55 on N side. Parlor windows. She had pail & long handled brush. Windows & blinds were closed that A.M. up & down. Dr. Kelly's work girl was washing windows at same time on S. side. "

Trial pg 645
George Pettee saw Bridget w/ window cleaning equipment at front of house around 10am.
Q. Did you at any time that morning see Bridget anywhere?
A. I did.
Q. About what time?
A. I should think around 10 o'clock.
Q. What was she doing?
A. She stood in front of the house, nearly opposite the front door.
Q. Did she appear to have anything with her, any implements of any kind?
A. Well, I saw the pail and the dipper and the brush. I thought she had been washing windows.

I can’t say exactly what I think Bridget may have seen, but there’s something about the parlor blinds,and/or room , and Lizzie coming from the front hall area after AJB came home as witnessed by Bridget, but denied by Lizzie .
Now with my belief that Andrew was struck from someone standing in front of him as he rested on the couch, based on the angle of his skull damage , the parlor may hold a great vantage point for the assailant, or assailants to be comfortable for the long interval between deaths.
Even if it were just to keep the murderer weapon ready.

In Emma’s inquest testimony, she stated the parlor was maintained only by her , and Lizzie which would give some privacy/security in that room to be used in some fashion, which may be related to Lizzie instructing those blinds to be shut.

My ladder inquiry was just to see if a view was possible from outside for Bridget.
Mrs. Churchill stated she saw nothing inside the house from her house.
The witness statements you provided at least put Bridget at the Parlor , which I wanted to solidify/verify first, but alas if she had no stool except inside, we are left with the focus back to the happenings inside.

Another good point you made was about the sun rising, and the tree. I’ll add if the parlor door was shut, why does Lizzie have those blinds on her mind, and also not admit to going in that room that morning if I am recalling correctly?
I feel there’s something going on there.
Is it a small piece of the puzzle?
I will have to keep an eye out.

There is a discrepancy in Bridget’s trial testimony, or so it appears, sorry my copy/paste is not cooperating.

She says that Lizzie is “through “ ironing as she —Bridget starts to put up her own window washing materials, which would be several minutes before she —Bridget goes upstairs to lie down.

Several questions later she says Lizzie has not finished ironing when she — Bridget heads upstairs..

Not sure what to make of this quite yet.

I've typed the testimony I think you're referencing. Not seeing the second comment of Bridget's. Maybe it is elsewhere?

Bridget Sullivan Trial Testimony
Q. Did you complete the washing of your two windows in the dining-room?
A. Yes sir. I washed them before I got through with them.
Q. And in the meantime, did she go on ironing whatever she was ironing?
A. Yes sir, she got through, and I went out in the kitchen.
Q. What was she ironing?
A. Handkerchiefs.
Q. And where were the flats that she was ironing with?
A. In the stove, in the kitchen.
Q. Do you know anything of the condition of the fire at that time?
A. No sir, I couldn't tell how it was.
Q. You say you finished your washing of the windows and went into the kitchen?
A. Yes sir.
Q. What did you do in the kitchen?
A. I washed out the cloths that I had washing the windows and hung them behind the stove. As I got through, Miss Lizzie came out and said, "There is a cheap sale of dress goods at Sargent's this afternoon, at eight cents a yard." I don't know that
she said "this afternoon," but "today." And I said, "I am going to have one."
Q. What did you do then?
A. I went upstairs to my room.

The above underlined you typed is on page 212 (LAB) website , (Moody questioning) Here Bridget, seems to say she is finished.
Bridget used the word “through “. same as she described finishing her window washing.

On page 223 (LAB) website 250-251 of documents, Bridget says different.

Also, interesting is that Bridget didn’t wash the parlor windows inside. Only outside.
I suppose the culprit/s knew this would be a private room if you will.

Bridget and Emma testimony explained that Bridget had no responsibility for the Parlor or the second floor of the house. That included interior window cleaning.

Yes, I suppose the culprit/s may have used this to their advantage. I’m starting to see what you mean about how many times the attorneys won’t permit free explanation on the witness stand.

Was Bridget made to come back to Second Street and spend the night on Friday the 5th?

She slept there Friday night, but not night of the murder or Saturday, the next night. She was not in the house Sunday morning when Lizzie burned the dress. Knowlton made that a point in his closing argument. I think on Monday, when they realized she had moved out Saturday, the police asked her to go back and stay Monday night. She went back to the Harrington's house on Tuesday after her inquest testimony and never spent night at Borden home again.

Isn’t that something, it’s a very morbid thing to do to her, not to mention frightening.
I don’t get the thought process of the police dept, or city officials here. Forcing her back to the horror house.

One thing peculiar, it seems that Bridget claimed to have a dark navy blue dress on all morning until afternoon when things settled down, which was way after Mrs. Churchill left around 12 noon or so, maybe earlier as she didn’t stay too long.
Mrs. Churchill states Bridget wore a light calico dress that morning.

Side note: Mrs. Churchill also remembered Lizzie wearing a light blue calico, cotton type dress with dark blue diamond figure that got her attention.
It’s hard for me to understand if there was one particular dark blue diamond figure, or many mixed into the fabric.