Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Looking down Third Street from Spring- something not possible in 1892

Standing on Third peering through at the back of 92 Second through Crowe's Yard

The Oliver Gray/Whitehead Homestead

Standing on Spring in front of the Whiteheads' looking north across 4th to the Cooke Borden house

The old hitching post- iron ring missing now, on the corner of Spring and 4th in front of the original position of the Whitehead house.

Cook Borden House currently undergoing rehab

Looking back across the street at the Whitehead House

Abby's Route to the Whitehead house,
looking up 4th towards Rodman before Spring Street ran through to 4th from Second.

Building existing in 1892 on corner of Spring and 4th across the street from Whitehead's- Harry - any idea what this was? Len thought it was the ice house.

Whitehead neighbors (across from Cook Borden's). Both houses were there in 1892

Looking from 4th towards 3rd and 2nd street- a very different view today than 1892.

Looking east at the corner of Borden and 4th

Shelley @ Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:49 pm wrote:Building existing in 1892 on corner of Spring and 4th across the street from Whitehead's- Harry - any idea what this was? Len thought it was the ice house.

I assume you mean it is now on the corner of 4th and Spring. It couldn't have been in 1892 as Spring stopped at Second St.

It doesn't look familiar. It looks like part of a building. The ice house referred to in the trial was on Third St. but I do remember reading something about another ice company. Now where to look, where to look ...

Yes, that is the correct address now. I recall the 3rd Street ice house which we discussed on another thread. I didn't see a number on this one but would love to clinch this -and find out conclusively that it was an ice house. Boy, they sure must have needed a lot of ice if so!

1892 Ice.
No listing under "Ice" alphabetically.
This is under Business Listings.
The John Reed is listed in the *white pages* as living at 9 Hanover.

(I printed the source at the bottom of the snippet, which is where I usually put the source data.)

Ice listing, 1896

Ah! A Mystery! I walked all around this funny little building which does not look as if anything was knocked off. Maybe there were shops on the other side at one time? I did not see any number on it but if we have the number of the Whitehead house across the street we might be able to figure it out. Maybe a grocery? It has the look of some kind of storefront don't you think?

In 1896, 45 Fourth St., the Whitehead house was renumbered to 167.

Across the street would be the even numbered houses.

So in 1892 directories we need to look for 44 or 46 Fourth? I am hoping L'il Abbie had a candy store across the street!

There was a livery stable at number 38 owned by a William McMullen.
There was bakery at number 66 and a painter at number 82.

I looked at the 1877 birds-eye map and did not see any building that resembled that one. All seemed to have peaked roofs.

I'll keep on digging and maybe we'll hit something.

Good man! I am uncertain as to which way the numbers "went up" from Whiteheads'-I am guessing they went up south to north? I am picturing Abby waddling off to the bakery to get a nice pie for her little niece-well, at least it's fun to think about it! Plenty of livery stables it would seem, in a small radius of the house on Second St. I bet the smells were divine in hot weather. I can't remember if it was Angela Carter or Victoria Lincoln who described the equine "meadow muffins" so admirably, steaming fragrantly in the gutters.

Shelley @ Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:49 pm wrote:Building existing in 1892 on corner of Spring and 4th across the street from Whitehead's- Harry - any idea what this was? Len thought it was the ice house.

I found it at the property appraisal site:

178 FOURTH ST
Owner  FALL RIVER EDUCATORS ASSOC INC City  FALL RIVER
State  MA
Address  178 FOURTH ST Zip  02721
Land Area  0.043 acres
Narrative Description
This property contains 0.043 acres of land mainly classified as OFFICE with a(n) OFFICE style building, built about 1900 , having BRICK VENR exterior and TAR+GRAVEL roof cover, with 0 unit(s), 0 total room(s), 0 total bedroom(s), 0 total bath(s), 3 total half bath(s), 0 total 3/4 bath(s).

------

Please note, in my experience, when the report states “built about 1900” that is not necessarily the date. It sometimes means there is not further research done to date the building properly. They cut off looking further back.

This is what it is now. Still don't know what it was- but at least you now have an address.

Thanks, Kat- well, it's fun to have a mystery to work on. It seems abandoned and empty now, but I do recall seeing it used as offices maybe 30 years ago.

Great find, Kat. Now we have a number to work with. Assuming it hasn't changed since the re-numbering of the buildings in 1896 we might be able to find something in the 1896 City Directory.

One question though, are we absolutely sure the building was there in 1892 and/or 1896? How do we know?

I guess that's two questions.

I am only repeating what Len said- that it was there in 1892. I was guessing he must have run across it. If it was not, I would still love to know what was there. This is only a few doors over from Cook Borden House.

Not that I didn't believe you, Shelley. Just wanted to be sure before I wade through the 1896 directory. It certainly looks like a building from that era.

Oh, even Len says he has made errors- but he ALWAYS catches them before they get published!
Of course I just toddle along behind, soaking it all in like a sponge. That building does look very like the period for a commercial space. I was hoping to get to FR early tomorrow before work to dig a little more on this funny little building.

You're welcome.
My first question as well, was is this building from 1892. It does look like it- but still we have to ask that, I agree.
Maybe contacting the owner would give a history.
Let me check our '46 Directory.

We have a 1946 FRCD and I just looked up 178 Fourth St.
It says:
"Vacant. Spring st ends."

No help.

There's safety in numbers- so Jeff and I braved a foray onto the Cook Borden porch around 10 a.m. There is a vacancy on the main floor in what must have been the parlor. We peered in the windows and saw a magnificent gas chandelier in this vacant apartment. The house is divided into about 7 units for single low-income men. The rehab and painting seems to have come to a halt.

entry staircase, Cook Borden House

The vacant apartment is to the left and the door on the right probably led to another parlor or a diningroom.

The view from Cook's porch- St. Mary's in the distance.

That funny little building on the corner. It has been modernized inside and appeared to be office space inside. The building on the right is the back of Cook Borden house.

oh, love that staircase!!! It's gorgeous!

The staircase is brilliant! Harry and I especially wanted to go inside some of these buildings and look at the foyers and staircases! Thanks!

The foyer door was locked- the staircase was shot with 1000 speed film- no flash- through the glass. I tried for the exquisite gas chandelier in the vacant apartment but it did not come out. I may have to ask for a tour of the vacant apartment.

The beautiful old gaslight fixture in the Cook Borden front parlor- now a vacant apartment undergoing renovation.

That's a cool picture, Shell. Thanks.

Love those pictures, Shelley! I think now I will definately have to go to Fall River soon.

Thanks! I do hope you will come soon, Snokkums. When you have had enough Lizzie, there are the mills, outlets, and old steamboat museum, the ocean nearby, great old houses, Boston and Newport and so much more to see.

I have very much enjoyed photographing the city over the past 15 years, and posting a few diverse aspects of the house and a broader portrait of the city here on the forum, which I hope has enticed a few to come to visit and stay at the house on Second Street and see all that Fall River and New England have to offer. I am also so grateful for all of the encouraging and appreciative words of folks here; for peer, friends and family support is everything when undertaking any project.

I realize that most of my photos here, except for the house photos, are only obliquely connected to the actual Borden case, but have felt that the history and structure of the city , in some small part, had some influence on the people involved in the case and how they lived in that little house on Second Street.

I love Victoriana and Victorian architecture, which should come as no surprise, and at one time thought about doing a color coffee table tome of the great Painted Ladies of Fall River- until I found someone had already done a great job of that! So, I refocused on other areas of interest including my love of old cemeteries, costume design, and the need for some helpful guides for guests for the Second Street house giftshop on which to build Borden-related publications.

So, over the past year and a half, prompted by the many guests at the house asking me "What else is there to see?" and "How can I get there", and drawing endless maps on the back of paper placemats, I have compiled "The Little Guidebook to Lizzie Borden's Fall River"(c) which features many photos similar to many posted here for forum friends, vintage postcards, maps and walking tours of Borden-related sites and directions on how-to-find cemetery notables. This is a small, pocket paperback which will be affordable and portable I hope, for visitors to the house, and maybe even local folks who were not aware of famous and infamous "neighbors" of long ago.

I thank forum members Jeff for some very happy hours this summer trotting around Oak Grove , Saint John's and Saint Patrick's hunting down people, and Lee Ann Wilbur for allowing me such extensive freedom to photograph this year at the house, and Donald Woods for embracing the concept with support and enthusiasm. The Guidebook will be available at the house website and in the giftshop as well as Amazon.com.

My other projects finally seeing publication are "Lizzie Borden's Hatchet- A Card Game" (c) which will debut January 30th, also through Amazon.com and "Dressing Miss Lizzie"(c), a sequel to the" Lizzie Borden Paperdolls and Victorian Pastimes" from 1993, for which I must thank my daughter, who finally made use of that college degree in art and graphic design for good old mom! It was a busy 2006!

Shelley,

Congrats, MOST EXCELLENT!!!!

I will take one of each....

The sun was just rising in the East for this shot taken from Bridget's window through the screen. What a great view Bridget would have had of the back yard, Crowe's Yard, Chagnon's and Third Street from her little window on the world.

I just had a whimsical thought. What if Bridget was innocent of being involved and, after the murders, looked out of her window (the one day she stayed before she left for good) and noticed an axe lying on top of Crowe's barn? I can hear the eerie music playing in the background.

Just catching up on this thread. Don't have time now to do it myself, but since you have the owners and address, I suggest a visit to the Fall River Registry of Deeds. It should be easy to backtrack info on that cute brick building.

That brick house is some sort of ice company. In its current form, it is highly unlikely it was an ice house, but then again there is a huge deep lot behind it and maybe an ice storage shed was once there many years ago. Inquiring minds are on the trail.

..

How very convenient for Sarah Whitehead! Just steps away to get some chips for her iced tea!