Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Okay, lets say Bridget killed them. She knew Lizzie was busy outside, she got rid of the note that abby got saying she was going to a friends house to check on her since bridget is the housekeeper and does the garbage.Bridget burned the note.

Lets say that Mr.Bordon notcied that bridget was not doing any housework and sleeping instead. Bridget has been behind on her housework for a long time now and Mr.Bordon has been telling her if she slacks off, he will fire her.
So he got angry and said she was fired. Briget had nowhere eles to go (No other job or place to live) so she killed him and abby (since abby was in the house at the time ).

Or lets say that Mr.Bordon had a thing for bridget. He wanted sex from her and she refused. He said if she did not do that she would be fired from her job. She gets so angry at his threats, she kills him and abby because abby knows Mr.Bordon has been threating her and maybe even molesting her at night. Bridget was abel to clean up after axing them to death. She used a pale with water to wash herself.Lizzie does not want to turn Bridget in because even if she had no idea Bridget was going to kill her father, she knows what Daddy has been doing to Bridget.Or Lizzie does know but feels for Bridget and wants to help her get away with it.

Lizzie has no problem sleeping in the house that night because she knows she did not do the crime. She wants to stand her ground and show the world she is innocent. But Bridget can not stand looking at what she did. Infact, before Abby was found dead, bridget said, do we need 2 blanets to cover the body. But there was only one body so why would Bridget think of 2 blankets? Inless if she knew there where 2 bodys.
plus, Bridget knew emma was away for the day and Lizzie was outside so she figured she could kill them without anybody walking in on her.Maybe Bridget Just got tired of making Mutton Soup .Maybe Andrew insulted
her cooking.

affie4u @ Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:02 pm wrote: Infact, before Abby was found dead, bridget said, do we need 2 blanets to cover the body.

When was it that Birdget said this ? I just checked the source documents and can't find any testimony regarding a blanket/blankets, except for Alice's Russell's trial testimony when she talked about the police searching the closet in Lizzie's room. Where did you see it Affie ? Thanks !





Tracy...

Well, why was Lizzie outside? Was she outside for Abbie's killing and still out for 90 mintues thru Andrew's? Or did she come back in and go out again- and for what? Was she meeting someone?
Actually, I don't think Lizzie would go sit in jail for 10 months for Bridget. There'd be no reason or reward, that I can think of. I also think the note being found, rather than burned, would be useful, but I'm not sure why.

You are talking about sheets, right?

It's nice with all these theories And here's my opinion:

I don't get the idea why Bridget would like to kill off any of the Bordens. Can't see any motive at all... and she did enjoy working for them.

However, if Bridget handled the hatchet...I guess she wasn't the only one involved. But if Lizzie did it, maybe Bridget helped Lizzie cover it all up. She did in fact buy a farm for Bridgets relatives in Ireland (...or was it in the US? I don't remember...)

I don't believe Bridget had anything to do with the crimes or had any knowledge of a plan to kill them. She and abby were very friendly
and it was Abby who begged her to stay when bridget thought about leaving. Bridget was her closest friend other than Mrs. whitehead.

Also I believe Bridget was very religious and don't think she could possibly think of doing something so atrocious.

BTW I am staying in Bridget's room in April :0)

Can anyone tell me how Bridgets life was after she moved away? Do you think she had a good one??

(Ihhh, you all must be soo tired of my questions by now...But I can confirm that today I ordered my very first Lizzie-BOOK )

There has never been anything in this case that has ever led me to think that Bridget was involved in either killing in any way shape or form. I personally feel that Bridget had no prior knowledge that the killings were going to happen and I feel she had no hand at all in covering up the crime afterward. I think she suspected Lizzie of the murders and that was why she left 92 second street that day. I could be wrong but this is how I have always felt about Bridget.

-1bigsteve (o:

Or, maybe the investigatiors didn't question Bridget that much, because she was thought of in terms like "she's just the maid"...

One of the marks of a 'troll' is how they create controversy where there is none. Bridget's innocence was well established the first day.
Some of the speculations here seem to be derived from earlier postings. Did you recognize any?
Note the simpel misspellings? Was this deliberate or a sign of a lack of knowledge of the very difficult English spellings (for foreigners).
One clue about this (another case) is that the simple words are misspelled while the difficult ones are not. Did they have to look it up, or just playing a part?

nishmat @ Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:48 pm wrote:Or, maybe the investigatiors didn't question Bridget that much, because she was thought of in terms like "she's just the maid"...

Edward Radin (who should have known better) pointed a finger at Bridget because killings of an employer by an employee are quite common. So much that there is the bastard term "going postal" (not ballistic).

Anyone here is free to claim Bridget did it. Or Emma, or Uncle John. Maybe it was Doctor Bowen (unpaid bill)? Or some discharged employee from Andy's mills?
Or maybe a bastard son?

RayS @ Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:58 pm wrote:One of the marks of a 'troll' is how they create controversy where there is none. Bridget's innocence was well established the first day.
Some of the speculations here seem to be derived from earlier postings. Did you recognize any?
Note the simpel misspellings? Was this deliberate or a sign of a lack of knowledge of the very difficult English spellings (for foreigners).
One clue about this (another case) is that the simple words are misspelled while the difficult ones are not. Did they have to look it up, or just playing a part?

There is nothing wrong or troll-ish at all about this topic, or the questions being asked, that I can see. We need to be able to ask questions in order to learn more about this case.

Ray, I find the insinuations about "foreigners" apalling. However, I would be more than willing to spell-check your posts for you if that would help, since you are concerned about simple misspellings.





Tracy...

Ray is paranoid. He once accused me of being somebody named Anthony?
And for the record, Ray, English speaking people make spelling mistakes all the time. It's not nice to stereotype.

I just don't think Bridget had any motive to kill Andrew and Abby. I think Abby liked Bridget and was nice to her. Bridget may have been the only real company Abby had in that house.

As for Andrew, he's never struck me as much of a ladies man.

Now one thing I do wonder about and that is how much Bridget knew about what was really going on in that house and what she knew about what happened that day. My opinion is she knew much more then she was willing to tell. I think that Bridget, just like Dr. Bowen, covered up a few things for Lizzie.

Was it Ray who had a problem with my topic/spelling? Should I leave the board because I don't spell "Perfect" or have time to do spell checks? Or maybe I just don't care if I spell perfect-get what I am saying Ray. If you have a problem with me, please be kind enought not to respond to my posts.

Now, to the people who want to talk about if Bridget Killed them. I read about the blankets in the book "Lizzie didn't do it". Where was Lizzie when Bridget did it? Outside eating pears and looking in the shed for the stuff she needed for her trip I guess. Maybe she came back in the house inbetween killings but did not notice the killer because the killer was quiet.Bridget died with a deep secert on her death bed that she wanted to confess to someone. She tried to talk a few days before her death but changed her mind. Was the secert about Lizzie? Or was it more? Something she wanted to confess to doing?

Oh,before I send this reply, I am so sorry for any spelling mistakes. I plan on making a lot more of them in the present (If it is okay that I can still post on this board).

Oh, What was her Motive for killing? It could be anything from being told she could be fired from her job, to being molested/raped by a Bordon, to being abused mentally from a bordon, to not getting a pay raise or maybe she went nuts. Who knows. Only the dead would know I guess.

DWilly @ Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:05 pm wrote:I just don't think Bridget had any motive to kill Andrew and Abby. I think Abby liked Bridget and was nice to her. Bridget may have been the only real company Abby had in that house.

As for Andrew, he's never struck me as much of a ladies man.

Now one thing I do wonder about and that is how much Bridget knew about what was really going on in that house and what she knew about what happened that day. My opinion is she knew much more then she was willing to tell. I think that Bridget, just like Dr. Bowen, covered up a few things for Lizzie.

I think you have it pretty much nailed to the wall, DWilly. I'm thinking along the same lines.

I don't think Bridget knew ahead of time that the killings would take place (wasn't she outside "chatting" with the neigbor at about the time Abby was being killed? How could a normal person be that cold?) but I think she quickly put two and two together. I think she knew more than she was telling on the witness stand but either out of loyalty or fear, Bridget decided to keep her mouth shut. Knowledge of Lizzie's guilt may have been what prompted her to move to Montana and may have haunted her in later years. Knowledge of Lizzie's guilt may have been what prompted Emma to leave Maplecroft and out of Lizzie's life.

That is what I'm thinking anyway.

-1bigsteve (o:

If one checks a timeline, they find no alibi for Lizzie or Bridget for Abbie's killing.
So it is now thought that Lizzie was outside or in the barn during Abbie's killing? Well, only those 2 surviving girls knew what when on that day...
If Lizzie had been outside around 9- 9:30am, I would think she'd have been seen.

Anyway, we have no proof of Lizzie buying Bridget a farm and there has even been speculation that the sick-unto-dying supposed confession that Bridget never managed was a legend or myth as well. I think in the not too distant future, more will be investigated about these claims about Bridget.

It was sheets, BTW. I don't know what Masterton wrote- but it was sheets. Access to that info is in the Witness Statements, page 12:
When the Doctor returned, he asked for a sheet. Bridget Sullivan, the work girl, was afraid to go up stairs alone, so I went with her. Lizzie said we would find the sheets in the dressing room, which is off of Mrs, Borden’s room. I think we waited for a key to Mrs. Borden’s room, and I think Dr. Bowen went into the sitting room to get it. If I am not mistaken, he first brought out a bunch, but the one wanted was not among them; so he went in again, and returned with a single key. We then went up stairs, and Bridget asked me if two would be enough. I said I think so, one will cover a person. But we brought down two, and gave them to Dr. Bowen.--Mrs. Churchill, Aug. 8th statement.

BTW: Anyone might consider reading the Source Documents, if they have not yet, available at:
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... uments.htm

Kat @ Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:06 am wrote:If one checks a timeline, they find no alibi for Lizzie or Bridget for Abbie's killing.
So it is now thought that Lizzie was outside or in the barn during Abbie's killing? Well, only those 2 surviving girls knew what when on that day...
If Lizzie had been outside around 9- 9:30am, I would think she'd have been seen.

Anyway, we have no proof of Lizzie buying Bridget a farm and there has even been speculation that the sick-unto-dying supposed confession that Bridget never managed was a legend or myth as well. I think in the not too distant future, more will be investigated about these claims about Bridget.

It was sheets, BTW. I don't know what Masterton wrote- but it was sheets. Access to that info is in the Witness Statements, page 12:
When the Doctor returned, he asked for a sheet. Bridget Sullivan, the work girl, was afraid to go up stairs alone, so I went with her. Lizzie said we would find the sheets in the dressing room, which is off of Mrs, Borden’s room. I think we waited for a key to Mrs. Borden’s room, and I think Dr. Bowen went into the sitting room to get it. If I am not mistaken, he first brought out a bunch, but the one wanted was not among them; so he went in again, and returned with a single key. We then went up stairs, and Bridget asked me if two would be enough. I said I think so, one will cover a person. But we brought down two, and gave them to Dr. Bowen.--Mrs. Churchill, Aug. 8th statement.

BTW: Anyone might consider reading the Source Documents, if they have not yet, available at:
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Resources ... uments.htm

Yes...I remember the sheet topic coming up in a recent thread. I did check Bridegt's prelim and trial testimony, and I also checked the overall trial testimony.





Tracy...

I do argree that Andrew was not a "Ladys man".
I think Bridget was not telling everything.Maybe she knew more,either she or Lizzie could of done it. Maybe Bridget knew Lizzie did it and did move because of her guilt.

Oh, I forgot to thank smudgeman & theebmonique yesterday for your comments. thank you.

How tall was Bridget? Because I have read that Lizzie was short (5'3 about)
and could not do the injurys on Abbys head at her height at the way abby was when she died. I think Bridget was 5'8? I am wrong? If she was that might of made her tall enought to do the injurys on abbys head.

Kat @ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:06 am wrote:If one checks a timeline, they find no alibi for Lizzie or Bridget for Abbie's killing.
So it is now thought that Lizzie was outside or in the barn during Abbie's killing? Well, only those 2 surviving girls knew what when on that day...
If Lizzie had been outside around 9- 9:30am, I would think she'd have been seen.
...

My recollection is that Bridget was outside talking to the servant next door around 9:30am. Ellan Eagan (Brown's book) says Ellan went to the police to provide an alibi for Bridget. I believe this to be true.

Edward Radin had to claim the murder was done earlier to blame Bridget. But no one else then believed Bridget to be guilty of murder.

As Sam Spade once said "if you can hand the murders on Bridget then do so". Mere assertion alone is not proof.
PS
Lizzie said she was down in the WC around 9:30. Believable to me.

Thanks for your opinions.

affie4u @ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:11 pm wrote:How tall was Bridget? Because I have read that Lizzie was short (5'3 about)
and could not do the injurys on Abbys head at her height at the way abby was when she died. I think Bridget was 5'8? I am wrong? If she was that might of made her tall enought to do the injurys on abbys head.

I'm pretty sure Abby was even shorter than Lizzie. I think Abby was only about 5'0 or 5'1. So I think Lizzie would have been tall enough to pull it off.

I believe Abby was my height...which is 5'3". Abby was as round as she was tall--being about 200 lbs or so. I couldn't find any info on how tall Bridget was.

Here is a quote from the autopsy report on Abby (from LABVML):

Body that of a female, very well nourished and very fleshy 64 years of age. 5 feet, 3 inches in height.
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm

As far as Abby being as round as she was tall...it's just not true. A little chubby maybe.





Tracy...

Oh...my mistake. I thought I read that Abby was on the heavy side.

I am not saying she wasn't a full-figured gal, I am just saying she was not as wide as she was tall, if you go by the facts. This is me at 5'1" and 175 lbs...roughly close to Abby's size and shape. While I am definitely not a skinny chick, I am not as wide as I am tall.






Tracy...

Thanks for the link, the description and the photo Tracy!
As Round As Tall is a circle, yes?

Where do I think Bridget was 5'6"? Maybe from the newspaper?

Ray, Lizzie said she visited the cellar soon after arising. That was not 9:30.
Also, Bridget seen by Mary Doolan at about 9:30, is no alibi.
But I did say Lizzie would probably have been seen if she was outside between 9 and 9:30 because Mary Doolan was out there and also Mrs. Churchill saw Andrew around 9 am on the north side of his house. Supposedly Bridget was outside vomiting around 9 am as well.

Kat @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:31 am wrote:Thanks for the link, the description and the photo Tracy!
As Round As Tall is a circle, yes?

Where do I think Bridget was 5'6"? Maybe from the newspaper?

The 5'6" figure sounds familiar to me too, Kat. Just where it came from I've not been able to find. She is described as "tall' in some articles but that is such a vague term.

In searching for Bridget's numbers I ran across this on Morse (8-5-1892, Evening Standard):

"Morse is a good looking man over 6 feet tall and will weigh about 200 pounds."

That was a big man for 1892. Other articles described him as 'not averse to talking". I'll say.

Kat @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:37 am wrote:Ray,Also, Bridget seen by Mary Doolan at about 9:30, is no alibi.

It would also appear to me that someone nonchalantly standing at a fence gossiping with another person would not have, within that small time frame, also murdered someone in such a monstrous rage. Just doesn't stand up. I would think that the other maid would certainly have noticed something was amiss in some way, and I'm sure she was questioned thoroughly by police.

affie4u:

You certainly have an explosive imagination. All of your theories have no basis in fact and are based, in my opinion, on pure speculation

Most of the members of the forum usually offer a premise based on some evidence. You seem to have avoided this reality in all of its forms.

There is no evidence that the Bordens were displeased with Bridget, or she with them - if anything quite the opposite.

theebmonique @ Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:12 pm wrote:I am not saying she wasn't a full-figured gal, I am just saying she was not as wide as she was tall, if you go by the facts. This is me at 5'1" and 175 lbs...roughly close to Abby's size and shape. While I am definitely not a skinny chick, I am not as wide as I am tall.






Tracy...

Good point. My Grandmother was also 5'1" but she was about 240lbs. and still was not "as wide as she was tall." In Abby's death photos she did not appear to be all that heavy. Plumpish or heavy-set yes, but not "extremely" overweight.

-1bigsteve (o:

Kat @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:37 am wrote:Ray, Lizzie said she visited the cellar soon after arising. That was not 9:30.
Also, Bridget seen by Mary Doolan at about 9:30, is no alibi.
But I did say Lizzie would probably have been seen if she was outside between 9 and 9:30 because Mary Doolan was out there and also Mrs. Churchill saw Andrew around 9 am on the north side of his house. Supposedly Bridget was outside vomiting around 9 am as well.

My recollection is that somewhere she said she had gone to the basement WC around 9:30, the estimated time of death for Abby.
That makes sense to me. I assume its true too.

affie4u @ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:03 pm wrote:I do argree that Andrew was not a "Ladys man".
I think Bridget was not telling everything.Maybe she knew more,either she or Lizzie could of done it. Maybe Bridget knew Lizzie did it and did move because of her guilt.

Oh, I forgot to thank smudgeman & theebmonique yesterday for your comments. thank you.

I think you are right affie4u. Andrew was not much of a ladies man. I think, too, that he didn't have much to do with the hired help, I think that was more of Abby's situation. Besides, about sleeping on the job, everybody that day was feeling bad, and if I recall, Abby was ok with her lying down for a while. Abby was feeling bad too.

William, it has nothing to do with a explosive imagination. It is just talk about "Is it possible that Bridget could of killed abby & andrew". There is a killer, it is either Lizzie, John, Bridget, Emma or a stranger. We could talk about any of the others as well. Yes, there is not much evidence that Bridget did it but there is not much evidence that Lizzie did it as well. This case will never be solved. over 100 years have gone by. An Ax was never found and nobody had blood on there clothes. Yes, it is true that we have never heard any bad talk about abby or andrew disliking bridgets service. The ideas I talk about for a motive of why Bridget could of done it are just suggestions. Nobody will ever know the truth of what happened that day.

RayS @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:21 pm wrote:

Kat @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:37 am wrote:Ray, Lizzie said she visited the cellar soon after arising. That was not 9:30.
Also, Bridget seen by Mary Doolan at about 9:30, is no alibi.
But I did say Lizzie would probably have been seen if she was outside between 9 and 9:30 because Mary Doolan was out there and also Mrs. Churchill saw Andrew around 9 am on the north side of his house. Supposedly Bridget was outside vomiting around 9 am as well.

My recollection is that somewhere she said she had gone to the basement WC around 9:30, the estimated time of death for Abby.
That makes sense to me. I assume its true too.

Please Try this link to Lizzie's timeline (again:)
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Lizzie.htm

Well, Bridget vomitting around 9 am outside has seemed to me a possible sign of her having just killed Abbie. No one else was vomitting Thursday. Also, those who think Lizzie guilty must believe that she too was composed within 20 minutes of Killing Andrew, her own father. It works both ways, in my estimation.
Besides, Mary Doolan's words on the matter have not survived. We don't know what she said or how "thoroughly" she was questioned.
In reponse to:

It would also appear to me that someone nonchalantly standing at a fence gossiping with another person would not have, within that small time frame, also murdered someone in such a monstrous rage. Just doesn't stand up. I would think that the other maid would certainly have noticed something was amiss in some way, and I'm sure she was questioned thoroughly by police.

--Angle

Bridget's timeline is confusing to say the least. She was supposedly vomiting from approximately 9:00 to 9:15, then went and cleaned her kitchen for 30 minutes, then starts to wash windows at 9:30? She does not see Lizzie before 9:30 if I remember correctly. And it is suspicious that Lizzie, Morse, and Bridget all mention the window washing time as if that was a secret code for murder. Maybe Bridget was a key player in having to be outside "pretending" to wash windows, when she was really just a lookout? Another thing that bothers me about Bridget's timeline is that she opened the door for the ice-man at 6:45am. Do we know who he was? Lizzie went downstairs to the water closet about 8:45 - 8:50 according to her, so why is it that she and Bridget did not see each other before 9:30? Abby was killed during that time period.

Scott, from Bridget's Preliminary testimony she states that Lizzie was sitting at the kitchen table eating breakfast when she went out to vomit. So, Bridget did see Lizzie before 9:30. The thing I'm curious about with the window washing was that John Morse says that Abby asked Bridget to clean the windows at the breakfast table. Bridget says that it was when she saw Abby last at around 9:00 o'clock that the order was given to her. I don't think Abby would have needed to ask Bridget twice to do her task, so, is one of them lying? And, what would that person gain from the lie?

Susan's correct.
And there is Morse interjecting chaos again in his testimony!

Calling Bridget a "lookout" is interesting. I had thought it possible she was. Mainly because of what some may think a minor point: That when she (suposedly) started on the interior windows, she started out of order to the job she had done outside. She started with the sitting room window closest to the street, instead of the one closest to the kitchen.
(Since she was not washing kitchen windows, that first south east sitting room window should have been first. BTW: She doesn't say if she washed the *lights* on either side of the front door...)

Here is Bridget's timeline, according to the Preliminary Hearing:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... ridget.htm

Kat @ Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:56 am wrote:Calling Bridget a "lookout" is interesting. I had thought it possible she was. Mainly because of what some may think a minor point: That when she (suposedly) started on the interior windows, she started out of order to the job she had done outside. She started with the sitting room window closest to the street, instead of the one closest to the kitchen.
(Since she was not washing kitchen windows, that first south east sitting room window should have been first. BTW: She doesn't say if she washed the *lights* on either side of the front door...)

That's an interesting thought. Maybe Lizzie told Bridget she was going to talk to or confront Abby about something and to stay outside as a lookout so no one would interfere. Bridget would not know Lizzie intended murder. Then when it was over Lizzie could have threatened Bridget by saying she would implicate her too if she didn't keep her mouth shut. That could be why Bridget was so squirrely throughout the whole thing and occasionally contradictory throughout the ordeal, and that's why she left the house as soon as she could and then got out of town at the first possible opportunity after the trial.

I've always thought that if Bridget had murdered Abby she would've high-tailed it out of there and sought shelter in the clannish "Irish underground" of Fall River. So, it follows, I don't think Bridget did it.

But was she involved? One of Lincoln's better conjectures is that Lizzie may have changed her dress after Andrew got home, and Bridget knew it. Bridget was then made to understand by Jennings or Robinson that it would be seen as goodwill and loyalty on her part if she'd forget about that (God knows, Lizzie only changed innocently!) and that she would be rewarded in time.

I think Bridget couldn't sleep there because she didn't know who the killer was, at first, and she was terrified "he'd" come back. Lizzie, knowing full well there wasn't another murderous maiden around, felt no such difficulties with sleeping in the house - or, earlier, even staying alone with Andrew's body after sending Bridget to spread the word - something I've always found extremely suspicious.

I remember someone saying that Bridget heard someone outside her door that night, and decided to never spend another night there.

There is no record that I know of, but if Bridget saw the family members hush up whenever she came near THAT would be a tip-off that she would be better off elsewhere.

You've all probably seen this in an office where the conversation (gossip) ends when somebody walks by?

I've not heard that Bridget *heard* anything "outside her door that night" - which night? Doesn't matter. Any night. Have not heard of that at all.

I can picture the Borden-Morse *consortium* clamming up when Bridget comes into a room after the family was on their own.

Kat @ Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:23 pm wrote:I've not heard that Bridget *heard* anything "outside her door that night" - which night? Doesn't matter. Any night. Have not heard of that at all.

I can picture the Borden-Morse *consortium* clamming up when Bridget comes into a room after the family was on their own.

As I remember, it was Thursday night after the murders. We know she did move out after she was no longer a suspect.

Bridget went away over Thursday night. I have no idea what you mean about hearing something outside her door.
Sorry.

theebmonique @ Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:12 am wrote:I am not saying she wasn't a full-figured gal, I am just saying she was not as wide as she was tall, if you go by the facts. This is me at 5'1" and 175 lbs...roughly close to Abby's size and shape. While I am definitely not a skinny chick, I am not as wide as I am tall.






Tracy...

I sure didn't mean to offend anyone....I just took my own weight and doubled it. I have a rather large family on my dad's side--I suppose the women in my family are more than 250....now that I thnk about it.

Trish...I was not offended. I just wanted to make the point that if Abby was 5'1" tall and 200ish pounds, she would not be also 5'1" wide.





Tracy...

I know---it's just a figure of speech I use that's all.