Lizzie Borden Society Forum

From cross-examination of Patrick McGowan by Robinson:

Q. that is when you tried to eat one of the Crowe pears?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that didn't go?
A. No, sir; they were no good. They were not ripe enough.

Q. You found a wooden horse there?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And got up on that and got some pears off of Mr. Borden's tree?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. And that went; that was a good pear?

Is that expression still used in New England or any part of it (or elsewhere)?

That IS a curious expression! Interesting. Sounds like something Doug-Oh could sink his teeth into!

It sounds like slang?

I had heard my grandparents use that term alot when I was growing up in Fall River but I don't really know of anyone from my generation still using it.

Thanks SteveS. That's interesting!

I bet you are homesick, yes?
Are you going back to visit this Spring or Summer?

I'm ALWAYS homesick. I do get my Hoo Mee chowmein and Portuguese chourico sent to me though On days like today when we just had 2 rope tornados touch down here in Lubbock, Tx. I get really homesick. Thank God no injuries though.

I visited last spring and it was still cold to me. I'm used to the warmer weather now. I am leaning towards a summer visit. I miss my friends and family and I want tto chat with Shelley at the house and I am really craving clams.....steamed and fried.

I see from rereading Sullivan that Robinson, who used the expression, was from western Massachusetts, so the expression was evidently sufficiently widespread. (Of course, he may have picked it up elsewhere.) McGowan, to whom it was evidently familiar was, like SteveS, from Fall River.

I have been rethinking my previous post in where I said that expression wasn't used by anyone from my generation. I think it is still in use but we have just modernised it if you think about it. For example we would say "That didn't go over too well" or "That went over big time".[/b]

If you want another really curious word and particular to Fall River area its what we call our water fountains. We call them "bubblers". I don't know why and I have never heard that term used for a drinking fountain any where else.

SteveS. @ Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:30 pm wrote:If you want another really curious word and particular to Fall River area its what we call our water fountains. We call them "bubblers". I don't know why and I have never heard that term used for a drinking fountain any where else.

Milwaukee, Wisconsin is another place to find "bubblers".

Slang has a shorter life than regular speech.

Your comments are truly the cat's pajamas.

[quote="RayS @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm"]Slang has a shorter life than regular speech.

Not always. Some things stick around. I found a letter my mother wrote back in 1942 to her parents describing her wedding. She said everything was "swell". I still hear "cats pajamas" occasionally. We've been "rapping" since the 70's. I still hear "far out", "awesome", etc etc etc

Yooper, that is the 1st place besides the Fall River area that I have heard of that uses the word "bubbler". That is cool. I wonder why the 2 areas chose that word for a drinking fountain? Wonder if there is a connection between the 2 areas?

SteveS wrote:

have been rethinking my previous post in where I said that expression wasn't used by anyone from my generation. I think it is still in use but we have just modernised it if you think about it. For example we would say "That didn't go over too well" or "That went over big time"

As far as I know, those are used wherever English is spoken. I don't believe they are related to the other expression.

Angel @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:54 am wrote:

RayS @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm wrote:Slang has a shorter life than regular speech.

Not always. Some things stick around. I found a letter my mother wrote back in 1942 to her parents describing her wedding. She said everything was "swell". I still hear "cats pajamas" occasionally. We've been "rapping" since the 70's. I still hear "far out", "awesome", etc etc etc

I hear "Cat's Pajamas" now and then. Oh, man this is freakin' me! I'm like back in the '60's and everything is so groovy. Come up to my pad, Ellen, and we'll like hang out and maybe roll a joint, I got some yellow jackets. We'll get spaced-out. It will be so cool. Oh, man, the vibes are like freakin' me out!

Thats about all the '60's slang I can remember. Thank goodness that decade is over. Each part of the country has it's own phrases. California has it's share.

I assume Robinson he was talking about a "saw horse?"

-1bigsteve (o:

An example of durable slang is "booze," which goes back to the 14th century.

Slang occasionally becomes standard English, as did "mob" (short for mobile vulgus (Latin for "vacillating crowd")) and "wig" (short for "periwig").

That was my point Constantine that those sayings are still in use today by everyone its just that we add a few more words to them instead of the shortened version.

Yes, but the specific usage I was talking about seems to be rare today, if it still exists (which I would guess it probably does). I'm wondering how widespread it was and whether it survives anywhere except, perhaps, in the speech of the elderly.

My grandparents had strange phrases that sounded odd to me growing up. My dad has picked up old sounding words or phrases that he never had before, like "cent" instead of "cents."

"In 1772 I bought a car for 25 cent." That kind of thing.

In the central California farm belt we hear "Amonds" instead of "Almonds." That one really gets up my nose.

Many of my older relatives have first names that you don't hear anymore. It seems every generation picks up it's own word plays.

-1bigsteve (o:

Amonds (I assume you mean with the "a" of "fat" is fairly common in New York. I say "Ahmonds," which is what is accepted as standard, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who put in the "l" (after whatever kind of a). "Palm" and "calm" with the "l" are certainly common enough.

It's more like "Aamonds." They drag out the "a." I always prefered "Ahlmonds" with the "h" almost being completley silent. "Allmonds" is OK too.

I'm getting hungry. Excuse me while I trot on down for some Almond Roca...

-1bigsteve (o:

I don't mean that I put in an "h." I meant the sound of the "a" in "father."

Thats the same sound I'm refering to. "Open wide and say "AH." Add an "L" and "monds." I sharpen the "A" just a bit. Kind of a half-way between the "A" in "Father" and "Ball."

Many farmers here in Californina pronounce it with two "A's" as in "Bad." Take the word "Baad" and drop the "B" and "D" and tack on "monds" and you'll have the California sound, as I call it. "Ahmonds" without the "L" is common in the rest of California.

Now, is it "Rocka" or "Rooka." I've always pronounced it "Rocka." In "The Net" it was called "Rooka." Almond Rooka?

-1bigsteve (o:

If it's "Almond Roca" (never heard of it), I'd pronounce it to rhyme with "Imogene Coca."

I just found out it is spelled "Roca" and pronounced like "Coca" just like you said. At least I had it bracketed. I'll have to watch "The Net" again and listen carefully to Bullock's version.

That is some good candy. I love that stuff.

-1bigsteve (o:

Hi Steve S. All the time I was growing up & even now people still say bubblers. I wasn't sure what a drinking fountain was when I first heard the term. I'm originally from Webster, MA So maybe it was state wide?
My nephew visited me from TX and saw a sign & wanted to know what pizza/grinders were because it wasn't familiar for him. He calls grinders--subs.

Hi Nadzieja. I’m just the opposite of your post. I was born and raised in Fall River,Ma. Until I was 44 then I moved to Texas. I still say bubbler for a water fountain and they look at me like I have 3 heads LOL. Also I still use the word grinder and 9 times out of 10 they think I’m talking about a piece of equipment from hardware store. Also another one that I think might be particular to Massachusetts is the word carriage for a shopping cart. My sister and I get the strangest looks here when we use that one.

RayS @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm wrote:Slang has a shorter life than regular speech.

Your comments are truly the cat's pajamas.

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie--lol!

A friend of mine--from the Upper Midwest--asked me what kind of pop I liked. I had no clue what she was talking about--I finally had to ask her! She said, "Oh, you know...soda pop??"

And I said, "OH!! You mean what kind of 'soft drink' do I like!!"

It's funny when two Americans speaking English together need a translator!!!

Hi Steve, I still say carriage. I went to a Friendly's in Westboro MA and ordered a soda. That was the only name I knew for what people call soft drinks now. Well I got this glass with ice cream and some type of "soda" in it and said I didn't order this. Well I ended up paying for it, came home and started asking and most of my friends from town were hysterical. They didn't know either. What's funny is people here still say soda. My nephew calls it pop. I went to visit my brother, I forgot where because he was military and they were ordering something called "hogies". I was totally confused until he told me it was a grinder. What was the best is when I went to visit in TX and asked for an Ice Coffee. Well you should have seen the looks I got, they asked me how to make it. However Dunkin donuts fixed that one for me. I don't think I could ever move from New England.

I don't see what the expression was in question, I've read the text several times and it just doesn't stand out to me? What is the slang we are talking about?

[quote="1bigsteve @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:44 pm

Each part of the country has it's own phrases. California has it's share.
-1bigsteve (o:[/quote]


"For sure." (That will ring a bell for Californians)

NESpinster @ Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:35 am wrote:

RayS @ Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:39 pm wrote:Slang has a shorter life than regular speech.

Your comments are truly the cat's pajamas.

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie--lol!

A friend of mine--from the Upper Midwest--asked me what kind of pop I liked. I had no clue what she was talking about--I finally had to ask her! She said, "Oh, you know...soda pop??"

And I said, "OH!! You mean what kind of 'soft drink' do I like!!"

It's funny when two Americans speaking English together need a translator!!!

In the area where I live most people do call it "pop". My uncle who lives in New Jersey however insists it's called "soda". I had a similar dilemma to what you described when trying to order from a fast food restaurant in New Bedford on my second trip to Fall River to spend the night at the B&B. I stopped at the KFC there because I just wanted something quick to drink. It was a hot day and we had done a lot of walking around the city to look at the different sites. When it came my turn to order I asked for a medium pop. The girl behind the counter looked at me funny. She asked me to repeat my order. Then she said "You mean you want...popcorn chicken?" Then it dawned on me, and I politely ammended my order to a medium soda.

My aunt has an odd expression I have never heard anyone else use. Instead of saying turn the lights on or off, she says open or close the lights. I have never heard another person use this expression.

The difference in terminology between soda and pop can happen in a relatively short distance. In the U.P. of Michigan we drink pop. 250 miles south, in southern Wisconsin, they drink soda.

In the technical sense, soda is carbonated water. Soda pop is another term for phosphate. How many of us remember going to a drug store lunch counter(!) and asking for a grape phosphate?

Oscar, the slang that started this post was “ that didn’t go” and “that went” used by Robinson when cross-examining Patrick McGowan.

Wow, again I can relate to you Nadzieja. In my part of West Texas we don’t have any Duncan Donuts (GASP…..I know). So at McDonalds I had to teach them also how to make an ice coffee. They still think I am from Mars for drinking it. They love their sweet iced tea here though What I have had a few mistakes on is what they call their soda here. To them soda is a coke. Doesn’t matter what flavor you want they use the generic term coke. Well after a few 100 times of being asked if I want a coke and me saying yes just to have the waitress look at me in despair after a few seconds and say what kind of coke do you want? I finally caught on LOL.

Being raised in Southern Illinois we called soda,
So-Dee.

Here on the Eastern Shore of Mare-lin (Maryland) we drink "soda", we eat "subs", "coke" can be Coca-Cola or Pepsi, we drink water from "wooder fountains", we eat All-monds and Pee-cans, in season we eat ars-ters (oysters), and if something is expensive we pay "right smart" for it! We have pet dalgs (dogs), lots of young-uns (kids), and address more than 1 person as ya-all (you all).

My ex-fiancee was a purebred Texan and always got a kick out of how I talked. Of course I told him if he hung around with me long enough, he'd learn how to talk properly!!

Whether you call it 'soda' or 'pop' depends on where you live. That's why they call it 'soda pop' on radio or TV. Regional lingo.

The soda/pop question along with others is on this Dixie/Yankee test. I was 51% Dixie although born in New York. South Carolina must be rubbing off on me.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligen ... _quiz.html

Don't forget Sally, a real shoreman also eats "carn" on the cob, and the "maters" in summer are "pritt-near" perfection. My dad was from Hoopers Island and the rest of the clan from Vienna, between Salisbury and Cambridge. Once when I brought my Aunt Dot to New England, a clerk at the giftshop checkout in Sturbridge Village asked if she was "from another country" when she heard that distinctive Shore accent. Ah, what I wouldn't give for an oyster fritter and a bushel of Phillips'steamed crabs or a bucket of English's fried chicken right now. All the Yankee lobsters in Maine could not compete with one oyster fritter from the Sharptown carnival. Smithfield ham and Maryland biscuits are on my Easter plate today.

Harry @ Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:33 pm wrote:The soda/pop question along with others is on this Dixie/Yankee test. I was 51% Dixie although born in New York. South Carolina must be rubbing off on me.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligen ... _quiz.html

I wound up with 42% Yankee. If there had been a Midwest or Great Lakes category, it would have probably been 90-100% Midwest. Interesting test, I wonder how closely it could be narrowed down using specific local terms after determining a broader general area.

Being from a tri-state area I hear a variety of accents. In my area of West Virginia you are apt to hear some of the redneck words that have been made so famous by blue color comedy. I've heard people say the word colors as "kellers". Some people watch "rassling" on television. They "warsh" their clothes. They also "red up" the house, or straighten it up. The Pittsburg accent is something else. I think it's pretty cool. I'm not sure I could properly explain it. The word into usually becomes "inta", and words like house somehow become something that would rhyme with the word mass. So he would walk inta the hass. These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

Shelley @ Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:05 pm wrote:Don't forget Sally, a real shoreman also eats "carn" on the cob, and the "maters" in summer are "pritt-near" perfection. My dad was from Hoopers Island and the rest of the clan from Vienna, between Salisbury and Cambridge. Once when I brought my Aunt Dot to New England, a clerk at the giftshop checkout in Sturbridge Village asked if she was "from another country" when she heard that distinctive Shore accent. Ah, what I wouldn't give for an oyster fritter and a bushel of Phillips'steamed crabs or a bucket of English's fried chicken right now. All the Yankee lobsters in Maine could not compete with one oyster fritter from the Sharptown carnival. Smithfield ham and Maryland biscuits are on my Easter plate today.

My grandmother always said Pert-near (pretty near), and we always attended the carnival in Sharptown and Hebron...got those ars-ter fritters and funnel cakes...!!! Sadly, the last English's in Cambridge was torn down a couple of years ago and they have a big new drug store on the site. English's chicken was just heavenly.

My husband's a Long Islander, and can't pick out a crab for the life of him! But he's a chef at the local country club and the seafood market will always bag up 8 or 10 enormous crabs and tell him to take them home to his wife...and you can bet I enjoy them!!! Incidently, my grandmother was a Phillips and the granddaughter of the famous Phillips seafood industry founder.

P.S....If your Dad was from Hoopers Island, we might be related...all those people from Hoopers Island were related and the Phillips family came from Hoopers Island.

Harry @ Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:33 pm wrote:The soda/pop question along with others is on this Dixie/Yankee test. I was 51% Dixie although born in New York. South Carolina must be rubbing off on me.

http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligen ... _quiz.html

I wound up 53% Dixie, and I've hardly ever been south of Pennsylvania.

I know this is a "dead" thread, but I took the test again. I'm sure my answers didn't change, but this time I was told I was "36% Dixie. You are definitely a Yankee."

That was a fun quiz to take. I am also "definitely a Yankee (39% Dixie)", though I lived in Georgia a few years and picked up many slang terms there.

Well, that was an interesting test. I am 35% Dixie, and definitely a Yankee.

Took that test again! This time I'm also "definitely a Yankee (34% Dixie)"!

That was fun.....49% Dixie.

Had to retake it too. This time...... 53% Dixie. Barely in Dixie

Go Chiefs!