Lizzie Borden Society Forum

No daylight savings time in Fall River, Massachusetts, in 1892.
So it is 8:55 a.m. and Abbie has finished fixing the guest room after Morse's stay. She has not much longer to live...
Lizzie comes downstairs around 9 ...

Abbie is dead. 19 blows. Did we hear anything?
We heard the blows from where we sit right now, down thru the years...

Bridget has gathered her window-washing things and is headed out now to wash those windows.
She will be yakking over the fence with Mary Doolan next door shorty.

What exactly is Lizzie doing right now?
And is Bridget still working on the windows outside, or has she stopped in the side door and seen something she shouldn't?

Is Lizzie trying to heat her iron or is she cleaning herself from a blood-bath?

"I think I'll put on a nice street dress and get out here for a while!" thinks Lizzie.

Well, it's 10:21 am. Was Lizzie stopping in the kitchen reading a magazine still waiting for her iron to heat?

I was reading the new Hatchet issue and checking the clock. Time rushes by while one is reading. But Lizzie had read her magazine before...

Andrew is due home.
Bridget would be getting ready to wash the inside windows but did not see Lizzie. Was Lizzie upstairs pacing frantically trying to decide the fate of her Father?

Isn't Father due home about noon?

At 10:40 that morning Andrew is just about leaving Mather and Shortsleeves and starting on the trek up Spring St.

According to Lizzie and Emma, Andrew would sometimes conduct business at home between 11 and 12. There doesn't appear he had any that morning as no one subsequently came to the house.

At. approx. 10:45 Bridget hears someone at the door, pauses her window washing, goes to the door and lets Andrew in. They don't speak according to Bridget. As she fumbles with the locked door she hears a laugh from the upstairs landing. She sees no one however.

10:45 to 11:00 - Lizzie appears, according to Bridget, from the front of the house, greets her father. He inquires about Abby and Lizzie tells him slowly that Abby has had a note and gone out.

Again, according to Bridget, Andrew goes upstairs and returns, sits reading briefly and then lies down on the sofa.

Lizzie claims she makes him comfortable, takes off his shoes. Lizzie claims she then left for the barn while Bridget claims she went to the sitting room to continue ironing her handkerchiefs.

Bridget, her window washing chore completed, decides to go to her room. As she's leaving Bridget claims Lizzie tells her about the sale at Sargents. Bridget goes up to her room, she estimates at a few minutes to 11..

Approx. 11:10 - 11:20 Bridget lying on her bed hears Lizzie shout for her to come down and that someone has killed her father. She rushes down and Lizzie stops her from going into the sitting room. Lizzie instructs her to go and get Dr. Bowen.

Bridget goes across the street for Dr. Bowen. He is not at home and she returns. Mrs. Churchill, back from her shopping, sees Bridget returning quickly back to the house. Lizzie then sends Bridget for Alice Russell.

Mrs. Churchill from inside her house, through her window, sees an agitated Lizzie at the screen door. She calls over and Lizzie asks her to come over.

Mrs. Churchill then goes for help and Cunningham, collecting newspaper payments, hears of the trouble and phones Marshal Hillard at 11:15. The Marshal sends Officer Allen to investigate.

Dr. Bowen returns home and is told to go to the Borden house. He examines Andrew and asks for a sheet to cover the body. Officer Allen then arrives with Charles Sawyer. Allen does a brief search, assigns Sawyer to guard the side door, and returns to the police station to report to Marshal Hillard.

Alice Russell arrives. Mrs. Churchill returns.

Lizzie requests Dr. Bowen send a telegram to Emma. He leaves, sends the telegram (it's stamped 11:32), stops at Baker's drugstore and returns to the Borden house.

During Dr. Bowen's absence Lizzie says she thought she heard Abby come in. Bridget and Mrs. Churchill go up the front steps to look for Abby. Just before reaching the top Mrs. Churchill and Bridget see Abby's body by looking through under the bed. Bridget continues up into the room while Mrs. Churchill retreats downstairs.

When Dr. Bowen returns they tell him of the discovery of Abby in the guest room. He goes up an examines Abby.

After that many police and Dr. Dolan come to the house. Uncle Morse returns home and crowds have already gathered in the street. And so went the morning of the fatal fourth at 92 Second Street.

All this is off the top of my head so if the sequence is a bit out of order forgive me.

Speculative: After the arrival of the telegram at Green Street, the Brownells help Emma get packed to return to Fall River. [Since she was planning to stay the summer, it is not known how much stuff Emma had with her or if some of her belongings might have been shipped back to Fall River at a later time.] Capt. Moses Delano makes arrangements for a carriage from one of the livery stables located a couple of blocks away on Main Street. Eventually, Emma is taken to the the train station in New Bedford.

The photographer is there while Lizzie sits in her bedroom, just on the other side of the guest room doorl.

Hello, I am brand new here (posting). I've checked this place out a bit here and there last fall when I first started gettig into the Lizzie scene. I toured Fall River a bit, and Saw the Borden House, Maplecroft, and the cemetery.
You see, we had a Morse Society convention in Fall River because of the blood kinship with Lizzie last fall. I immediately became enthralled, reading books and whatever I could find on the case. I NEED to be here with you people because I feel I belong. What better day to come out of the closet than August 4th!
Yesterday was a historical dey in my immediate Morse family, and I'll tell you about it in a while, when I have the time to do it right. I have obligations right now, But I'll see you soon. Thanks for having me, Morgan.

"Do come in...someone has killed father."

Real Time Events, as they were happening- thank you Harry...
And Christopher from the Delano house angle

Real time...

Emma's train ride- what is she thinking? What is she feeling?
It's 4:34.
Is she hearing the news on the train? Did she hear it at the station? Supposedly the cry of murder of her stepmother and father was not communicated in the telegram.
She'll be arriving at 5 at her home, which now belongs to her.

The train ride sounds- che..che..che..che..che..che..che.. the sound of the train on the tracks...
Is Emma hearing chop..chop...chopp..choppp....chopp... imagining the horror? Is she horrified or is she secretly relieved...

She is an heiress now...Emma can't help but to be ticking off on her fingers what property she now owns... what stature she now has... she owns what old Andrew had owned. She owns what old Mrs. B used to think she owned...

Emma has arrived in Fall River. She is counting trunks and making sure everything is accounted for. She is being picked up at the station most probably and oh what things she must be hearing on the way to Second Street!

She has yet to personally experience the news...the dead heads of the couple are just finishing being photographed at 4:30.
She might enter the house as her father's remains are being moved to the dining room.

It is 10 of 5. Will the victims be hidden under sheets and their bloody stitching be out of view before Emma steps in the door?

Is she prepared to see all these people running rampant all over her house?
She asks Bridget 2 questions: Will you stay? Did you see who brought the note?

Not What happened! You were here- what could possibly have happened!????

Oh Gawd! The house smells like men's sweat and old blood and there are spurts of it in the sitting room, and Lizzie is in dire need...Emma must rush to her ...

And don't forget Lizzie's response when Abby is referred to as her mother by the deputy marshal, Fleet...... "She is NOT my mother! She's my STEP-mother!

At 8:30, Mrs. Holmes has left Lizzie.
At 8:45, 15 minutes ago, Lizzie and Alice Russell made a trip to the cellar by lamplight.
Lizzie went to the privy with the slop pail then went to the sink in the laundry room. She splashed some water. Then the light that Alice held followed them back upstairs.
Alice went to the elder Borden's bedroom to take her pre-bed personal bath and shut the connecting door.

Now there is a light- a small light that floats in the air and it goes winking out when the holder passes an area where there is no window where the watcher is located. The light reappears and is now in the cellar again. It is Lizzie Borden, new orphan, alone in the cellar in the laundry room. She bends down near the sink. She is not there two minutes. She picks the light up and is now silently, slowly, like sleep-walking- quietly, making her way back up the front stairs. No one knows she has made this visit just now, except the watcher outside the cellar window, Officer Hyde, who was not standing at his post. He saw her because he left his post.

Lizzie had to make a second visit to the cellar. But why?
She had to creep past the dining room doors which were closed, and thru the kitchen, to get to the cellar- twice.
The bodies of the murdered couple were within feet of her passage. The room she entered had their bloody clothes stored there and the pail of her bloody menstrual cloths.

Grown men might have been wary or downright creeped out or scared to make that trip with a lamp, alone, past those bodies to that dark cellar. Yet Lizzie did it. She was not asked why.

It's time to settle down the household- it's quiet time and a respectful time- for the night- for the awaiting of the wearisome Friday- it's time to reflect, time to be alone with one's thoughts finally.

Thanks you guys: Har and Christopher and Bob G., and Bobbypoz and morgan.
(hello morgan)
Whew- that was intense.

Kat et al,

THAT was awesome. I sat here for bout 20 minutes just running through all that must have gone on; the actions, thoughts, anger, sadness, the grief, and then the panic of what they should do next.
No matter who I thought did this all I can think about is the loss. There were really no winners at all in this entire situation and such a waste of lives. Two physical beings were destroyed that August morning, but two others were entirely changed. How much real happiness came to the Borden sisters? Very sad to me.

Thanks again for such a phenomenal way of telling the story of that fateful day.

~Bob

I wonder what was going thru everyone's head that day. I mean, you walk into a home, not just anyones home, but a weathly persons home, fine them dead, and their daughter acting peculair.

Must have been a very weird day.

nice job!

Whew! I must thank you all for indulging me!
I was so centered on this project that I couldn't break out of the mood until midnight.
You guys are awesome for *getting it.*

Yes, if we can't feel a modicum of horror at what happened, we can't ever quite grasp the case.
When I started out, I was actually angry. Anger at Lizzie spurred me onto my first message board.
Since that time I am on the fence as to who did it- but it's a helpful stance in my own situation because I feel like I can come at the case from any direction, and am never bored with this tragic story.

People ask me why be so involved in such an old case, but as far as I'm concerned this is a *cold case* and unsolved because no one was convicted. There was no justice for the victims- not that I think I can personally provide justice, or closure- but it deserves to be kept open.

I think the feelings we have about the case- the sense of injustice, or grief, or anger- serve us well, and gives a foundation of respect for the victims.

(BTW: Harry is really good at this!)

I found myself pondering a point today.
How about Emma's untimely death? Does that get anyone wondering?
If we dismiss all things supernatural, then what about Bridget? She may have worried that since Lizzie's gone, that Emma may feel like finally letting the cat out of the bag, and maybe that goes against Bridget's wishes.
I do live in NH, maybe I should look around a bit about Emma's death????

Kat & Harry,

Your posts brought the events to life for me. At midnight, I was thinking about Lizzie creeping about my home, axe in hand.

Anyway, you brought up Lizzie's second trip to the cellar that evening. Was just wondering, since an officer saw her do something near the sink briefly, was that area investigated shortly after she left or did the police not have access to the house at that hour of the night? Seems like pretty suspicious behavior.

You guys did an awesome job reinacting the fatefull days events in real time. Made me feel like I was there experiencing these events as they unfolded. We tend to study one aspect at a time but when you put the events all together in sequence in real time you get a much clearer look at how the horror and tragedy unfolded and how people involved reacted very differently. Kudos folks!

Thank you for the great posts! It was odd to think that when I woke up on August 4th that due to the time difference, Andrew and Abby would have been dead already. I posted on one of these threads in the past, it was really thought provoking trying to get into the heads of each person involved in the tragedy. Good stuff.

Wow! Thanks Kat, Harry & FHG (Chris)
Thanks for walking through the day, it brought it to life!! Made it fresh!!

Every year, for years, on the fourth of August from the moment that I get up to the time I go to bed, I watch the clock and follow the time lines; I try to imagine the ballet of the day, the interactions of all concerned.

But at the end of the day, it’s hard to understand how something so horrendous could have been carry out; and carried out in broad daylight without the clues necessary to fully understand, who, how, and why.

How does a killer evaporate without leaving but a scant few traces; how does someone keep the emotions pent up long enough to kill a second time with the same voracity as the first killing. One would think that the emotions would have been spent on the first killing.

Why weren’t the tough questions asked at the trial, why wasn’t Lizzie made to answer coherently. Where is the justice for the death of Mr. & Mrs. Borden; where is the reason(s) for the murders; and why after 116 years later do we still shake our head in frustration at the vastness of the unanswered, ever changing scenarios and questions?

Thanks Kat, Harry & FHG for bringing the events alive. Not just today, but in all of the information that you offer daily.

I thoroughly enjoy this case, the chase, this forum; and yes, even the frustration.

Year 117, anyone?

Yes I was thinking of it as walking into a daytime nightmare. It's unbelievable, yet it happened.

Yesterday would have been the funeral in the sitting room, the 6th. And the biggest search of the house started after the funeral cortege left the house.

But it is 2:25 am in Fall River right now, August 7th, Sunday. At around 9 am (without DST), Lizzie will burn that dress. She may be drugged now after the funeral, fitful in sleep and fretful, hot and uncomfortable, and panicking and planning to burn that Bedford cord in the morning- this morning.
It will be the first day Bridget will not be there.

This is the day. Monday, that Alice finally leaves, but she wreaks havoc before she goes- she tells the private investigator, Hanscom, that Lizzie burned her clothing Sunday! (Well, the *girls* tell her she should.)

I wonder if the girls are relieved Alice is gone!?

.......and that's the end of the Lizzie - Alice friendship!!

Does Emma keep in contact with Alice?

The Inquest starts today.
At 9:30 a.m. "Doherty escorted Bridget Sullivan to Second District Court in Fall River Police Station...Awaiting her presence were District Attorney Knowlton, State Officer Seaver, Marshal Hilliard and Medical Examiner Dolan, and soon after they were joined by Mayor Coughlin."- KK The Hatchet, Aug/Sept 2005, page 34.

Bridget was questioned around 10 A.M. before Judge Blaisdell, until "the hearing was adjourned for dinner" at 12:30 P.M.-KK

The newspaper included others in the courtroom: "district officer Rhodes...stenographer Miss Annie Read[sic-"White"] and a couple of police officials who were among the first called to the house of the Borden's..."-KK

If you have the "Lizzie Borden In Black & White" issue you can read the roster of witnesses on each day and how long they were kept.

We don't have a copy of Bridget's testimony. But some of it was read back to her at the Trial, so the defense must have gotten a copy from somewhere. Maybe there is a surviving one in the Robinson Papers.

This moment, 2:30 p.m., Wednesday, August 10th, 1892, in old Fall River, Dr. Bowen is arriving at the court to give inquest testimony.
(It would be interesting to read it right now. It probably takes more time to read it than it does to speak it and hear it.)

Next will be Mrs. Churchill, Hiram Harrington and Ellan Eagan, around 4 p.m. today.

Happy New Year

Did I miss something?

Thanks Kat for doing this last year. When I got up this morning I was totally in Fall River and thinking about what should be happening then I remembered this from last year.

Blessings on everyone-

~Bob

...oh and thanks Bob, Harry, and FairhavenGuy too!

Kat, it's weird how long ago it happened, but you were bringing it all back to life. I had to put my Johnny cakes down for awhile ! We all want to be able to watch every single player in this story. I can't think of any other crime mystery that captivates me so much by the complexity of it all. I find myself on Lizzie's "side" one minute, and villifying her the next, because we just don't have all of the facts.

Yep, this was the fateful day. I wonder why Lizzie (or whoever committed the murders) chose that particular day? Why not the day before, the day after, a month before or after...

Why did the murders happen on that particular morning??

I can't help wondering about the will that never existed. Or at least was never found. Incredible, trying to imagine a man as orderly and as obsessed with money as Andrew Borden, not having a will.

Is that what he was discussing with Uncle John Morse? Were they overheard? Did someone fear being left out of the will--or at least getting only a portion of the inheritance--and decide that the time to act was now, before a new will could be produced?

So many questions!

Lizzie may have had a hissy when Uncle John showed up, and assumed the worst. I know that I would be unhappy if my father was giving property away, and that I might be stuck in that house another 10 to 15 years. Imagine Andrew at 97 ?

Bobbypoz @ Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:47 am wrote:Thanks Kat for doing this last year. When I got up this morning I was totally in Fall River and thinking about what should be happening then I remembered this from last year.

Blessings on everyone-

~Bob

I did the same exact thing today. I kept calling Harry today and saying things like *Abbie is dead now*. And later- *Andrew is being autopsied in the sitting room now* and Harry's telling me *Walsh is taking pictures.*
Just bizarre. I awoke way too early this morning at 8 a.m. and thought:*This is the time Abbie died- before Daylight Savings Time*. And could not go back to sleep after that.
Oh and since I sleep in a bit every day, as does Lizzie, it seemed very early to me to get very mad and hot and bothered enough to kill!

Thanks you guys for resurrecting this thread.

I was off yesterday, to supervise some shooting of the film I'm in in my bi-coastal neighbor's apartment upstairs. I opened my eyes at 9:10, and as I smoothed the covers on our bed, I decided to play Abby in her last minutes of life, hit on the side of my face, then maybe in the my as I turned away from the assailant, and then 17 or so times more as I ended up face-down on the carpet. It was odd, but very exciting. And I need to vacuum!

I thought this was a good post for August 4th when I saw it last year. It puts us in Fall River 118 years ago, and is the reason we post at this site today! Just need to start on the first page.

It gets me thinking. I can figure the re-enactments on the day of the crime, but for the overnights guests, the night of Aug 4th is the night after the crimes.

Would it be more intriging to stay on the 3rd, the night before the crimes?

I realize that both nights are significant.