Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Tonight on Discovery Channel at 9PM is "Lizzie Borden Had an Axe." I emailed everyone who is a member here about it, as well as Hatchet subscribers, but I also wanted lurkers to know too.

It replays at midnight in case you miss the first showing. A student of mine said she caught the commercial for the episode and saw me in it! That was cool! I haven't seen it, so if any of you have, let me know.

Here are a few images from the show. The actress who is playing Lizzie looks young, don't you think? I have no idea about what the show proves or does not prove. I haven't seen it yet and won't until 9PM like each of you.

Here are some images from the production:
http://www.morningstarentertainment.com/lb/lizzie.htm

Have fun everyone!

It is times like this I wish this forum had a chat room option as well.....

It would be fun to live chat during the re-broadcast (if people could stay up that late!)

I hope those triplets of mine know they are going to trick or treat at warp speed tonight! Mommy wants to be home, popcorn popped and jammies on at 8pm (the time it is on in central)!

Well, wasn't that an interesting program? Kudos to Stef and Kat. Nice appearence. It's nice to see our forum-mates on national TV. Don't get all Hollywood on us now. Lol
I think the luminol test was as should be expected. Of course there would be blood under the floorboards where it dripped from Andrew's head.
I don't think the program shed any new light on the case but it was nice to see something new about the case on TV.

Great job on the show guys! Kudos to Stef, Kat, Bill and Len!
I enjoyed it thoroughly and I have a new tape to add to my collection.
Pam

BRAVO ! I am watching the replay as I type this. Congrats to all who had a part in making this a successful documentary. Yes, another tape for the Lizzie collection. Gret work everyone...that's a wrap !


Tracy...

Stef was phoned during the Luminol testing to see if she or I had any suggestions as to where they should use the stuff. We mentioned under the sofa in the cellar which they said they were already doing and I suggested Lizzie's doorway- her threshold, because if there was a blood reaction there then she lied- because she said her door was closed and locked always.
If they could prove one lie- and not necessarily that she caused blood to be over her threshold- I would have been somewhat satisfied. They didn't do it or else they didn't show it.

I would have liked to have seen them use the luminol on the front hallway stairs too. Would have been interesting is a trail of blood showed up there....

Thanks for the email.I was thinking that it came on another channel so I could not find it in my t.v.guide. I received the email and got the right channel.I enjoyed the program very much and also recorded it.Thanks again...Audrey(deepriver)

Goldenpixie, you are just too cute for words!
Do you really FEEL like that Avatar?
What fun!

goldenpixie @ Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:43 am wrote:I would have liked to have seen them use the luminol on the front hallway stairs too. Would have been interesting is a trail of blood showed up there....

Does Stef know where they used the luminol?

My feelings would be that they used it in more places than they showed with no results so it got edited out of the show....

I think the magnitude of Andrew's blood accounted for the positive results in that area-- there was just so much of it. The other could have been anything....

Congrats, Stefani and Kat, it was fantastic to see you both on TV tonight!!! I think you both came across wonderfully, it was so neat! It would have been great if they did show testing of the Luminol in other areas of the house besides the cellar. They did seem to push the idea that Luminol shows that blood was present in other areas of the cellar which sent a chill up my spine, but, I recalled reading that other things can make it glow. Did a quick search and came up with this:

"If luminol reveals apparent blood traces, investigators will photograph or videotape the crime scene to record the pattern. Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow. Experienced investigators can make a reliable identification based on how quickly the reaction occurs, but they still need to run other tests to verify that it is really human blood."

From this site: http://people.howstuffworks.com/luminol3.htm

The area that they called the "Dry Well", the set tub in the chimney where Bridget did laundry glowed from the Luminol. Could it have just been bleach residue from doing the laundry there for years?

Susan... If I ever have a job that requires an intensive and patient web search you'll have it!

You do a wonderful job separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to sharing links with the rest of us. Thank you for that!

As for the bleach-- that might have become a popular soaking spot for laundry long after the Bordens lived there.... Most of us know that when soaking something-- we tend to act like we are using an old wash board. Taking the soaking item out of the water and twisting, wringing and otherwise monkeying with it. Whenever I do this I get splatters-aplenty of bleach water and with the old bleach I used to ruin what I was wearing as the bleach water would splash me and fade it.

I wonder if the producers ever considered using the luminol on the handleless hatchet? (If so, I'm sure the FRHS shot THAT idea down in a hurry!)

Hahaha! Yes, I often feel like my icon (probably look just as looney too)!

I'll buy that the luminol under the sofa spot was authentic (I want it to be!) but I really have problems with that basin. After all - wouldn't that be where the women of the household washed their "monthly use" towels? And just the fact that it's been 112 years....for the actual basin to have survived....!

-Donna

You're welcome, Audrey. When they showed those other areas that glowed with the Luminol and made comments about it being blood it felt like I was touched with a live wire, ah ha, new evidence I thought! But, what I've read about Luminol in the past started planting the seed of doubt, hence the search, like Lizzie, I wanted to know the truth!

And after all this time with others using the house to their own means, it could be evidence of anything. I like that idea, Stuartwsa, I wonder why they didn't test the hatchet head or weren't allowed? Would it have possibly destroyed future evidence that might be tested on the handless hatchet head or might it have destoyed part of the legend?

Anyone have any ideas why the "fresh break" on the handless hatchet still looks so fresh 112 years later?

If it's still looking so newly broken today, maybe it wasn't so newly broken in 1892 either.

I enjoyed the Koorey interviews and M.M. and Rebello (wish there'd been more!), but some misconceptions leaped out at me--Abby a socialite???!!!
Like many others, I was underwhelmed by the luminol except that blood traces remain detectable so long. The spot on the wall could be where the hatchet was propped, but surely it was well washed first. Also, the blood could be animal blood, such as pigeon. . . I agree it would have been more exciting to find lots of blood in Lizzie's room. Someplace where animal blood, bleach, and menses couldn't confuse the issue. I agree with Fairhaven that the hatchet break still looks fresh. On the whole, though, it was very cool seeing the house on video. I have a much clearer sense of space and furniture placement. BTW Not only did Lizzie look young, but Abby looked lean. She should feel flattered. I notice that they cut out the sound test of Abby hitting the floor. That test could further bolster the accessory-after-the-fact theory for Bridget.

On the whole, I thought the show was better done than most, and our people did 'em proud!

--Lyddie

FairhavenGuy @ Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:44 pm wrote:Anyone have any ideas why the "fresh break" on the handless hatchet still looks so fresh 112 years later?

If it's still looking so newly broken today, maybe it wasn't so newly broken in 1892 either.

I recalled this comment when I was rummaging around in the cellar testimony by a whole bunch of people. I found some allusions to the HH as having a fresh break. Just about everyone said that about that hatchet.

Then, what was interesting, was that at the trial, they had that little piece of wood out. Also, there had been splinters which went with the whole.
In the cellar, when Medley saw it, the piece of wood was in it. (T698)
At trial, he says "(The break) is darker now." (T701)

and:
Q: This you found in the shape it is now, except the piece of wood was in the eye?
A. Yes, sir.
(T707)

The slivers are mentioned at trial 708.

Monday was when Medley saw the handleless hatchet in a box near the floor (where it had been put earlier).

Mullaly is asked a question about "...that piece of the handle which is now out of the eye of the hatchet..." (T630).

When the video premiered on Discovery Ch. last Oct. 30th, they examined the bit of wood that was in the hatchet head. When Stef and I were there in March we examined the hatchet head extensively. It now seems to be loose, but to have been driven back into the head and propped in there.