Lizzie Borden Society Forum

The Fall River Historical Society has once again allowed us a small glimpse into the world of Lizzie Borden from their soon-to-be-published Parallel Lives: A Social History of Lizzie A. Borden and Her Fall River.

This one is a doozie! Not only do we see Miss Borden in all her jocularity, but we are given in insight that shatters some entrenched myths about this most enigmatic woman.

Lizzie had a soft side.

See for yourself!

http://lizzieborden.org/ParallelLives.html

Thank you for posting that Stef. I can hardly wait for this book to come out. My grandmother who had seen and spoke to Lizbeth of Maplecroft when she had met her in downtown Fall River would say....."let her be". We only know of the Lizzie from legend and what little historical facts are written and many of us get angry about the fact that so many people from Fall River knew her, spoke to her, and knew so much more about the case from living through it and knowing/ talking to so many people involved with the case, but we forget that this was a real flesh and blood woman. The times were very different back then. Yes, gossip did exist but there was a time and place for it and you just DID NOT talk about someones missfortunes like we tend to relish upon doing today. My Fall River upbringing had taught me that you just "accepted" some things and just didn't question them nor did you pass judgement (at least not in public) because what ever that person had done or didn't do was between them and their maker and the fact remained that they were still a person entitled to live their lives in privacy. There was always a kind of love/hate relationship I think in Fall River between the working class (like I was born into) and the upper class that lived on the "Hill". You might do some kitchen gossip about them but when they were met in real life anywhere in Fall River they were treated with respect (tipped hat, yes sir, no mam, doors held, that kind of stuff) because there was always an awe about the wealthy in Fall River. This is just my own personal experience having grown up in Fall River just a few decades after Lizzie had lived there. I remember the old downtown Fall River. The Academy building still being used for businesses. The old City Hall. The old stores that no longer exist in downtown. Downtown was were the poor and rich mingled, did business, shopped. To me downtown was kind of like that dividing (neutral zone) poor to the south and east and rich to the north. I know I kind of rambled here but I hope it can help shed a little light on why Fall Riverites (the people that knew Lizzie best) were so tight lipped.

Thanks for posting that, Stef. I always forget to go to the FRHS website. I am getting more and more anxious for the book to come out as time goes by. That letter! I can't even guess who she was writing to. Maybe it was to someone we don't know she associated with. That would be cool!

The Easter postcard is precious. I wonder if there is any more written on it. Postcards made in Germany are real old ones. She may have been on the young side when she wrote it.

I am as excited to know who Todd Lunday really was as I am in how his/her identity was found out.

Just a side note: I have a sheet of 1924 Christmas seal stamps that Lizzie would have used on her Christmas greetings that year. I love looking at these stamps knowing Lizzie would of looked at the same stamps and used them. They are from the Fall River downtown post office that good old Uncle John was so fond of visiting.

Is there any chance in you scanning them for us, SteveS?

Your post about old Fall River was great. An article for the Hatchet on your memories would be real interesting.

I can try scanning them and posting them here. I am just NOT that computer literate but as Fall River would say "I'll Try" LOL. I have alot of memories about Fall River from back then and alot more passed on to me from my grandparents, great aunts, great uncles. Some of them even thought it was a tragedy that I was born on the same day as Miss Lizbeth... I just can't put things in to words like the rest of you on here seem to have the talent for. I think from a very early age I had a real pension for the significance of my family, and City history. This was my seed from which I sprung. I don't know of too many other youngsters that realised at that age the significance and importance of their surroundings in their city but even at that age I marvelled at knowing people had seen, been, touched for a hundred years the very things I was now doing that with. I think I belonged more to the generation before me then I do to the generation I am in and I realised that at a very early age.

Yes,

Steve, don't go through all that electronic, computer work.

Just place one on a postcard and mail it to us.

Yes, Many of us who grew up in fall river have fond memories of life there. What SteveS has said was very true.

We had our private lives and the wealthy had theirs; there was an unspoken respect practiced by all. There were certain things one did not talk about. One did not pull one's pants down in public, and of those who did, we didn't mention it or talk about it.

Much of this had to do with decency and respect for others, a practice which is very lacking today.

Rich,poor, south, north and east would all meet, if not speak, downtown. Downtown was the the city Mall. All the fine stores were there. Within 6 blocks were 4 theaters. Those who could afford it would shop in these stores. Those that could not, did so with their eyes.

Entertainment was had by studying the way the other side lived and shopped.

Of course, this being said, I am speaking for the working class; people such as my family, and I trust, SteveS.

But, though I don't wish to elaborate here at the moment, the way SteveS digested his past in fall river, and the way I did is in all likelihood very different. Fond memories of a place for one may be uncomfortable recollections for another.

Ahhhhhh....I was expecting you to post on this MB. because I was going to say if MB dug far enough and deep enough into his past and his families past I am sure there are some Lizzie connections there also. I agree though that we are both seeing our heritage in Fall River differently. I just got off the phone with my sister who is a little older then I and she doesnt have half the recollections I have because quite frankly...she just wasn't interested then or now in her heritage where as I couldn't get enough of my families or Fall River's past even when I was a kid. I just have never shared alot of what I have for recollections because they are less face it, 2nd hand accounts. But if anyone is interested I can share a few. My Great Aunt Sarah is the one that got me started with the whole Lizzie Borden thing. She gave me my 1st book on the subject....Lizzie Borden: The Untold Story by Edward D. Radin (1961). Her and her sister my Great Aunt Josephine both had Alice Russell as sewing instructor. The one word My Aunt Sarah always used to describe Miss. Russell to me was "practical".
Ok.....per request I am posting a photo of those stamps.......I could not for the life of me figure out how to use my scanner/copier to get a pic posted here. I can copy stuff no problem but cant do much of anything else LOL. So I took a photo with my dig cam and just uploaded that. Also. I took a photo of my original TV guide clipping of The Legend of Lizzie Borden and I will post that also.....It was definitely a ABC Monday night movie and the date was Feb. 10, 1975 just to put that issue to rest. by the way, it was on at 9pm. channels 5,6,8,9 local Fall River .

The stamps. I'd have to use all my stamps MB to send you all a postcard.

The Legend of Lizzie Borden

I meet people who will never have an interest in the past, or current surroundings. They just don't "get" that they are part of distant, and living history. Just because we miss things, and people who are no longer around doesn't make us "damaged."

I became more interested in such things as I aged, because they were vanishing at an alarming rate. Tracking down elusive facts can be like a scavenger hunt. I still get weird looks when I wear vintage clothing to the store, but there are people who find it "cool". We have many young people who are very much into the history. They even mention reincarnation, sometimes.

What a great postcard, er, I mean, tidbit! I can't wait for this book to come out! Thank you for posting it - I hadn't checked the FRHS site in awhile, so this was a welcome reminder to do so.

Thank you for the stamps scanned and the effort Steve!
Oh and the stories!

Dennis told me about the Easter postcard when I spoke with him at the FRHS last Friday. It's even more than I imagined, though!

Thank you, Steve, for posting the original TV guide clipping and 1924 Christmas seal stamps!

Keep those stories coming - I love them! Your stories give me an insight into what life in Fall River is/was like! Very interesting.

Yes SteveS: I know you grew up in the South End. One can say that I am a fall river boy, a citizen or victim of this city.

When I first popped out onto the third rock from the sun I lived on CONONICUS ST.

Then we moved to RAYMOND ST.

After that we moved to WEBSTER STREET and shortly after that to WAMSUTTA ST.

After that to PLEASANT ST.

and CHERRY ST.

and HARBOR TERRACE

and DANFORTH ST. all in the city of fall river.

by the time I was 16 back to PLEASANT ST.

then we moved to SWINDELLS ST>

then to SOUTH MAIN ST.

then to COUNTY ST.

then to BARLOW ST.

Finally to FRENCH ST.

YES, I lived in fall river.

Dang MB......you have lived all over the city LOL For me, when I made my Fall River debute I was living on Wilcox St. then Dwelly St. . As a young adult it was Rock St., then Tuttle St. , Jepson St. , Cambridge St. , N. Main St., then lastly Courtney St. off Highland Ave. So I have basicaly also lived all over the city...North, South, and East. And it is very interesting to note the differences in the neighborhoods and the attitudes of the old timers in those neighborhoods. I, Like you MB, have a GREAT dislike for most of the City leaders and the way they have run the city....ran it right into the ground basicaly. Politics in Fall River dare I say has ALWAYS been "whats in it for me?" and NOT whats in the best interest of the city and her citizens at large. And I will go as far as to say it was probably the same in Lizzie's day. I really don't think you and I are that much different in our opinions, beliefs and attitudes about Fall River except I tend to see you just getting so fed up with all their crap. I guess I just always hold out hope that they will finaly see the light. I love Fall River...I am proud of this City and I am proud of my heritage there but I am also very ashamed of the way her care takers have treated her.