Lizzie Borden Society Forum

It looks as if Maplecroft is still up for sale. I found the attached real estate offering in a Fall River newspaper dated 11-04-04 so it's fairly recent. I'm tempted to make believe that I'm interested in buying the property just to get a tour of the place.

Go for it, Mark. When you call, ask if they'll knock off a few thousand if you pay cash.

You must be pre-qualified to even get in the door.

They are doing all they can to keep sightseers out.

I guess I can not blame them.

Thanks for the update Mark.

Looks like the price has gone up by about $25,000 since the last time we saw it.

Hi, Mark. Thanks for the update. Any idea what the current property taxes might be?

I don't know that, but it reminds me of a January 17, 2004 Providence Journal article on the (at the time for sale) B&B Borden House and quotes those property taxes as $7649.

Let's all pool our resources and buy it. I've got my fifty cents ready!

You may laugh, stuartwsa, but that's how "we" bought the battleship USS Massachusetts, which is now the centerpiece of Battleship Cove in Fall River. When I was in 3rd or 4th grade in the '60s, all the school children in the region collected dimes. We were later issued cards giving us the rank of a particular officer based on the number of dimes we collected.

FairhavenGuy, I think that was a terrific idea. I wish that we could have done the same thing here in Saratoga Springs, and saved the two elephantine Victorian hotels that were torn down in the '50s and replaced by supermarkets.
My suggestion was only half-kidding. If I had any money to work with, I would very seriously consider going in with others to buy Maplecroft. It needs to be in friendly hands!

Heres a link to the property info availible online thru the city's website. I hope this link works.
http://fallriver.patriotproperties.com/ ... umber=6221

Here's the info for the Second st. house
http://fallriver.patriotproperties.com/ ... mber=17193

Both of these links are from the city's website at www.fallriverma.org
Click on the "property info" button on the left and then search from there.

I did all that, it is pretty clumsy, but I did get the
info after a while. (slow computer here) The house
is selling at a good price, I bet it goes fast, hope someone uses it as a bed and breakfast and keeps
the Lizzie legend alive. Jeez i sure wish I had the
money to buy it!

I felt myself tossing and turning inside with a desire to buy Maplecroft, oh how I would love to live there I thought...but a pipe dream. Then I found out it was up for sale and a piece of me had to wonder about getting that drive and then finding out it's for sale and if some miracle would happen

It's killing me this place is up for sale, I want I want, I've come up with some odd ideas but it will remain a fantasy. Imagine a bunch of us buying the house together, I'd have to say that would be interesting talk about town, "the lizzie cult that moved in"

We're a cult? Should we wear robes?

No, I refuse to wear a pink wrapper.

You'll wear what your told to wear Mr...

Why? Because I said so!

Don't make that face at me...

Oops...

Never mind

Mark A. @ Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:53 pm wrote:Both of these links are from the city's website at www.fallriverma.org
Click on the "property info" button on the left and then search from there.

Bummer! Harry says it's a cool site. I can't get there using Explorer OR Safari!

Try this link Kat http://fallriver.patriotproperties.com/default.asp

That one works!
Thanks, Mark

I can get to the page now, but it won't search for me.
Boo-Hoo!

Under "Search" and "Street": I entered 306 French Street and "GO" but it said "No matching Records Found."
Same for "Donald Woods."

Kat, just enter French. It will give you the whole street. Then go to 306.

Jeez, Audrey. I'm a government official here in Fairhaven. I get razzed enough for dressing up in my colonial costume.

Actually, I picture officer Philip Harrington dressed like this from time to time. With a red ribbon, of course.

Mark A. @ Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:59 pm wrote:It looks as if Maplecroft is still up for sale.

The price seems reasonable to me, but then I live in Silicon Valley, where only about 20% of people with jobs can afford to buy a house. I am not among the lucky one-in-five.

Lynn

Ha!

**claps with glee**

Addie... Venir-- Quelqu'un a tué mon père

Now thats a funny one fairhaven guy. Could that be Audrey after preparing Thanksgiving? LOL

LOLOL ! Please don't make me laugh so hard !! Would FR ever be the same (would it ever recover ?) if we ever all converged on it at one time ?


Tracy...

ya all are hysterical eh hem, historical...wait, both ;) I'm sure there would be talk about the town about the group of odd balls that "wanted to live in a murders house!"

Or am I the only one who gets flack from their friends and family about my interest in Lizbeth and desire to live in Maplecroft? They think I'm nuts!

Tha's pretty funny you guys!

I did figure out the secret code of "French Street" only, thanks!
Just now.

Er, is this the house next door? It says #294. It looks like it.
It says 2-family house!

Harry @ Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:37 pm wrote:Kat, just enter French. It will give you the whole street. Then go to 306.

I figured out how to go there (thanks, tho!) and I looked at the neighbors. #294 says it's a 2-Family house. Now my question is:
Is this #294?
I think it is the house next door to Maplecroft.
Here is a comparison with the tax rolls picture and Sherry's picture taken last year.

As usual: Please click on pic

Great find Kat. That is definitely #294. It can be clearly seen in this
early 1900's photo.

Do we know who lived there in Lizzie's time?

BTW, we have never dated the car in front of Maplecroft. Any antique car experts?

It may be an optical illusion, but it looks like the windows on the side bedroom are shuttered. Is that Emma's room?

Emma was gone by the time cars came out, wasn't she?
1905 vs. first popular cars c. 1909? That does look like a shuttered room, tho- I never noticed that before.

Didn't we date this photo as between the time the Kenny house was there and then was moved- compared to when the garage was built and when that car was manufactured?

Can you tell if the steps are wooden?

I remember discussing this photo in the past, I searched the archives for what info I found at the time:

99. "Re: The Unfathomable Borden Riddle"
Posted by Susan on Jan-13th-04 at 12:24 AM
In response to Message #94.
I tried to research the car with as little as we can see of it. One thing that might help is those tires, they're white! The only antique cars I could find from the 1900s that had white tires on them were between 1902 and 1909, all the rest had black tires. That body type on the car seems to have been available from 1910 to around 1925, the body types seem to start being altered around then. Hope that helps?


101. "Re: The Unfathomable Borden Riddle"
Posted by rays on Jan-13th-04 at 10:59 AM
In response to Message #99.
White tires put it after 1912 (?), I believe. White is plain rubber. Some coal trucker decided to ask for carbon to be added to the tires so they wouldn't get dirty. They found that this strengthened the tires and made them last longer. Since then all tires are black with carbon dust (charcoal). Or so I once read.


102. "Re: The Unfathomable Borden Riddle"
Posted by Susan on Jan-13th-04 at 11:20 AM
In response to Message #101.
Thanks, Ray, you pointed me in the right direction. Found this:

In 1910, B.F. Goodrich Company invented longer life tires by adding carbon to the rubber.

From this site: http://inventors.about.com/library/inve ... ltires.htm

Go to Google-Images and type in 1920 Ford Model T Runabout.

In Rebello, the Kenny descendent talks about Lizbeth making them move the house. Then on page 287, there is this:
"A 28' x 37' garage was constructed by James Allardice in 1911 for $3,000. (see Building Inspector Records, Permit # 117, Government Center, Fall River, Massachusetts) Maplecroft (306 French Street) was placed on the National Register of Historic Places on February 16, 1983."

The Kenny house may have been moved in order to build the garage. The garage was built in 1911. Since this picture has no garage, then it is probably c. pre-1911.

Thanks, Mark A.! It looks like there were earlier models of that particular car. Heres a 1910 Model T Runabout:



Which doesn't look like the car in the photo of the street out front of Maplecroft.

A 1911 Ford Model T Tourpedo Runabout:



I saw a 1912 model of the Runabout too, it also has those bars running from the windshield down to the hood of the car. Its not until 1913 that it looks like they got rid of them.

Heres a 1913 Ford Model T Runabout:



Another 1913 model:



And a 1914 model of the same car:



Apparently the white tires are correct for that time period.

From this site:

http://www.modelt.ca/13T-fs.html

Also found this:

A significant restyle (most noticeably the fenders were now rounded) for 1911 accompanied two new body styles, the Open Runabout and the Torpedo Runabout. Production expanded to 34,858 cars and the lowest-priced model, a two-seat runabout, went for just $680.


No one really knows if Henry Ford ever said that the buying public could have Model T Fords "in any color, so long as it's black", but it is commonly attributed to him. While this saying is true for the model years after 1913, earlier cars were available in green, red, blue and grey. In fact, in the first year, Model T Fords were not available in black at all. The switch to all black cars was likely due to Ford's optimization of the assembly line and to reduce the time lost waiting for the various paints to dry.

From this site: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/generati ... ticle.html

For comparison, here is a 1912 Pierce Arrow Model 36 Runabout:



A 1908 Cadillac Model S Runabout:



From this site:

http://www.wrhs.org/cfm/auto/images/1908cadillac.jpg

Probated in Lizzies estate was a 1923 Lincoln sedan to Charles C. Cook (executor) for $1,000 and a 1924 Buick sedan to Ernest Terry at $425 but these cars are not mentioned in her Will. I believe she died in 1927 so having cars 3 and 4 years old wasn't extravagent I dont think. Wonder why the old gal didn't just "will" it to them?

That's interesting. Maybe there was some kind of tax reason. A special auto tax?

I have grown interested in Lizbeth-- almost as much as Lizzie!

I am trying to convince Thayne to let me supply the needed paperwork to the real estate agent to allow me to see the house....

Just saw Fairhaven's mockup of Audrey. I must say that red is your color, Auds!

--Lyddie

Maybe we could agree to do a reality tv show, and get the house as payment. We'd have to give them lots of drama, tho - fighting and sexual tension. They could air that picture of Audrey and say it's real - that she got a hold of one of us; just couldn't take the tension in the house anymore. I'm always tripping. I guess I could roll down the stairs for "the cause" (I'd probably fall down them anyway).

Or we could do one of those PBS shows where you really have to live and dress just like people would in a certain era - in this case the early 1900's. ... Nah. I think the only one that has a costume is Fairhaven Guy.

I am willing to be the murderer...

But I also get to sit about in lust red lipstick drinking wine and tossing my hair about coyly....

Oh wait... That was last night...

Or we could do one of those PBS shows where you really have to live and dress just like people would in a certain era - in this case the early 1900's. ... Nah. I think the only one that has a costume is Fairhaven Guy.[/quote]

Oh wait... My husband has some clothes I am willing to swear come from that era...

I've got a dress we could burn.


Tracy...

WGBH Boston Presents:

MURDER HOUSE. . .

My wife would certainly nominate me for the part of the old bearded tightwad.

But, Fairhaven Guy, Andrew doesn't get to live in Maplecroft. Unless it were his ghost. There's a chauffeur of questionable morals, Ernest Terry and his wife. And guys that would drop over - Rev. Buck, Charles Cook, Jennings, the jury (there's 12 roles right there!). Even tho the dress was burned at the murder house, bring it along, Monique - and burn it there, too. Why not. Viewers would love it, and most of them probably wouldn't know the difference anyway.

This could work!

Oops. . .yeah. . . Tracy threw me off with the burning dress.

Okay, so then I'd have to be John Morse, lurking around in the shadows and cutting the girls out of my will.

Maybe some network executives lurk here. It looks like they are running out of ideas for good reality shows. The Real Gilligan's Island??? Geez, one of the Skippers on one team had a heart attack on there - and the other team just ran ahead to win the round. Of course they filmed the guy laying on the sand moaning. Finally when it got dark, a helicopter came for him and took him away.

Ever see "Scare Tactics" (and, no, I don't watch these reality shows all the time...)? They set a person up where actors take part and pretend one's murdered, or a murderer, or something horrific, and the person who isn't in on it is about to pass out from fear. Then they say, "Oh, we were just kidding! Isn't it funny?!" No, it isn't funny. One of these days somebody's gonna get killed on one of those shows.

I still think "Maplecroft" would be a cool one.

Sorry about throwing you off Chris...I was thinking not just about Maplecroft, but about the whole time of Lizzie's life, including 92 2nd St. You know...reenacting it from the beginning.


Tracy...