The note

[Angel]

Someone recently posted something about Abby's original intention to care for little Abby, and then not being able to do it because she was not feeling well. It made me think. How did little Abby's mother know that there was a change of plans and that big Abby wouldn't be able to take her that day? Perhaps a note? Maybe this whole note thing was misconstrued and the details only half heard by Lizzie or Bridget. Maybe the real truth was that the note was written not TO Abby, but BY Abby to go to little Abby's mother and someone was summoned to the Borden residence to take the note to let her sister know of the change of plans. Maybe the reference to "someone was sick" was actually big Abby being sick and not being able to leave the house. And not to some sick neighbor needing Abby. Any thoughts?

[Yooper]

The first thing comes to mind is that there was still no one who came forward regarding a note as the sender or delivery person, nor as the recipient if it was sent to Abby's family. If there was a note from Abby to her family, they might have been quick to straighten out a misconception regarding it. They may have had an interest in seeing Lizzie convicted if they thought she was guilty.

[1bigsteve]

Sounds very reasonable. But, if a note was sent, who recieved it? And if it was not sent, what happened to it? Maybe Abby was going to write/send a note but didn't get around to it before she was killed?

This is something to think about.

-1bigsteve (o:

[diana]

That’s an interesting idea about the note being from Abby instead of to her.

Sarah Whitehead was asked at the inquest if she was on good terms with Abby Borden and her answer was: “very good, more so, than anybody in the world”. (Inquest Testimony) So I guess we could always speculate that even if Sarah received a note from Abby she might not bring up anything that might aid or abet Lizzie in any way.

But we’re still left with Lizzie’s own testimony which does seem to be about a note that required Abby leave the house:

“A. She [Abby] told me she had had a note, somebody was sick, and said 'I am going to get the dinner on the way,' and asked me what I wanted for dinner.” [Inquest Testimony: 65 (22)]

And again on the following day, when her testimony continues, Lizzie is still claiming Abby said: "I have had a note from somebody that is sick, and I am going out, and I will get the din- [sic] at the same time." [Inquest Testimony: 80(37)]
'

[Angel]

Yes, that was said, but look who was saying it. Is she to be believed if she was guilty? She would twist the facts to suit her story to help herself.

[Yooper]

If Abby sent a note to Sarah saying she wouldn't be able to watch little Abby due to illness, it implies she wouldn't be going anywhere the day of the murders. Lizzie's contention that Abby had gone out as an excuse for Lizzie not being concerned with Abby's absence the morning of August 4th goes out the window if Abby sent Sarah a note saying she wouldn't be able to watch little Abby.

[Allen]

If Abby sent a note to Sarah saying she wouldn't be able to watch little Abby due to illness, it implies she wouldn't be going anywhere the day of the murders. Lizzie's contention that Abby had gone out as an excuse for Lizzie not being concerned with Abby's absence the morning of August 4th goes out the window if Abby sent Sarah a note saying she wouldn't be able to watch little Abby.

I agree. I think if Abby had sent a note to a member of her family that morning, one that implied she would not be going out, they would've come forward. Lizzie's note hinged on Abby going out that morning. I don't believe the person who delivered the note to Sarah would have any reason not to come forward. Especially in light of the reward that was offered.

[kssunflower]

If I remember correctly, Alice Russell said Dr. Bowen questioned Lizzie as to the location of the note and she stated it must have been put in the stove to be burned. Then some of the police officers witnessed him burning some paper scraps, which he said pertained to his daughter. One of the officers claimed to have seen the name Emma written on one of the papers. If this was true, I wonder what he could have been disposing of?

[Yooper]

The Bowens were expecting their daughter to arrive that day. She may have sent word ahead that she would not be arriving as scheduled. My best guess is that Dr. Bowen received a telegram from his daughter when he went to the telegraph office. He may have written the message to Emma on the back of it and had the message sent. Mrs. Bowen had testified that she had been watching for her daughter to come up the street the morning of the 4th, and she may not have been aware at the time that a telegram had been sent, if indeed one had. Dr. Bowen said the scrap of paper had something to do with his daughter.

[Chichibcc]

The first thing comes to mind is that there was still no one who came forward regarding a note as the sender or delivery person, nor as the recipient if it was sent to Abby's family. If there was a note from Abby to her family, they might have been quick to straighten out a misconception regarding it. They may have had an interest in seeing Lizzie convicted if they thought she was guilty.

So they never really seemed to suspect Lizzie at all? I wonder what their impressions of her were.

If they were aware of how horribly Lizzie treated Abby before the murders, that in itself should have raised some red flags.

[nbcatlover]

(delete)

[Yooper]

The first thing comes to mind is that there was still no one who came forward regarding a note as the sender or delivery person, nor as the recipient if it was sent to Abby's family. If there was a note from Abby to her family, they might have been quick to straighten out a misconception regarding it. They may have had an interest in seeing Lizzie convicted if they thought she was guilty.

So they never really seemed to suspect Lizzie at all? I wonder what their impressions of her were.

If they were aware of how horribly Lizzie treated Abby before the murders, that in itself should have raised some red flags.

I'm sure Abby's family suspected Lizzie, and they probably had a good idea of the relationship between Lizzie and Abby. The idea here is that a note sent by Abby to Abby's family would likely have been brought forward because Lizzie was contending that Abby had received a note rather than sent a note. If the note said that Abby was too ill to babysit that day, it would refute Lizzie's contention of Abby having gone anywhere. Abby's family wouldn't have hesitated to offer a note of that kind to the authorities.

[snokkums]

Someone recently posted something about Abby's original intention to care for little Abby, and then not being able to do it because she was not feeling well. It made me think. How did little Abby's mother know that there was a change of plans and that big Abby wouldn't be able to take her that day? Perhaps a note? Maybe this whole note thing was misconstrued and the details only half heard by Lizzie or Bridget. Maybe the real truth was that the note was written not TO Abby, but BY Abby to go to little Abby's mother and someone was summoned to the Borden residence to take the note to let her sister know of the change of plans. Maybe the reference to "someone was sick" was actually big Abby being sick and not being able to leave the house. And not to some sick neighbor needing Abby. Any thoughts?

Maybe this was the note that Lizzie was talking about when she said Abby was supposed to go out or something? Maybe big Abby told somebody sheh passed the message on by word of mouth. Cus the only note that I have heard about was the one Lizzie had said that Abby got and noone found.

[shakiboo]

What Angel is saying is true, (if I understand it right) some one in Abby's family had to be in contact with Abby, if she was to have baby sat with little Abby, or some one would have shown up wanting to know why she didn't show up. She had to have let them know one way or the other that she wasn't going to be able to do it and why. But as far as I know there's no mention of them recieving a note or a message regarding it. Like Angel thinks, there had to have been some kind of communication between them. Either shortly before, or the day of.....

[Yooper]

Is there a source for the information that Abby intended to babysit on August 4th? Possibly Sullivan or Lincoln?

It makes sense for Abby to contact her sister on or prior to August 4th if she was unable to babysit due to illness. She would have been aware of the illness no earlier than August 3rd if food poisoning was the problem. Abby could have sent the note any time on the 3rd, and just possibly very early on the 4th. Wouldn't Bridget be the likely candidate to take the note to Abby's sister? If Abby wasn't feeling well, she wouldn't have gone looking for a messenger, and by the time she sent Bridget looking for a messenger, she might as well just send Bridget with the note. Bridget didn't know where Abby's sister's house was on the 4th, she had to be given directions. I don't know why the prosecution wouldn't zero in on this if they were aware of it, a note from Abby would refute Abby having gone anywhere on the 4th.

[MysteryReader]

If I remember correctly, Alice Russell said Dr. Bowen questioned Lizzie as to the location of the note and she stated it must have been put in the stove to be burned. Then some of the police officers witnessed him burning some paper scraps, which he said pertained to his daughter. One of the officers claimed to have seen the name Emma written on one of the papers. If this was true, I wonder what he could have been disposing of?

Here's something interesting- there looked to be something burned PRIOR to the doc burning his paper scraps- could that have been the missing note (if there was one)? Or could it have been whatever Andrew had in his hands when he came home? Could it have been business related (Andrew's business)? Does anyone remember seeing mentioned anywhere anything about the broken ( ) lock that Andrew picked up that morning from one of construction sites?

[Curryong]

I do, MysteryReader. Andrew was an enthusiastic collector of bits of rubbish, sorry, interesting bits and pieces that had been left around that might come in handy and, better still, that he didn't have to pay for. I think the lock was found wrapped in a piece of paper in one of his pockets.
Bridget was, I believe, questioned briefly about what Andrew had in his hands when he came home that Thursday morning. She didn't take much interest but I got the impression that it was a short and thick parcel that looked like 'papers'. It would be interesting to know what they were. Officer Harrington, who was very observant, looked in the stove and said that he had noted that 'something cylindrical' looked as if it had completely burned away. However, he didn't come to the Borden house until the afternoon.

[MysteryReader]

I do, MysteryReader. Andrew was an enthusiastic collector of bits of rubbish, sorry, interesting bits and pieces that had been left around that might come in handy and, better still, that he didn't have to pay for. I think the lock was found wrapped in a piece of paper in one of his pockets.
Bridget was, I believe, questioned briefly about what Andrew had in his hands when he came home that Thursday morning. She didn't take much interest but I got the impression that it was a short and thick parcel that looked like 'papers'. It would be interesting to know what they were. Officer Harrington, who was very observant, looked in the stove and said that he had noted that 'something cylindrical' looked as if it had completely burned away. However, he didn't come to the Borden house until afternoon.

I see. I didn't remember if anything had been said about the lock other than his picking it up. Now, there would be a place I'd love to look through to see what Andrew collected (just read/posted on the Stay to Tea thread about collections).

I do remember someone mentioning 'something cylindrical' and wondered if it could have been what Andrew was carrying. I remember that Uncle John was down on business.

[Franz]

Oh, the note! one of the most mysterious components of the Borden case.

I certainly agree that, if Lizzie killed Abby, she would have found some pretext to avoid Andrew from searching his wife. Ok. I can even agree that Lizzie could have invented this note story, but if so, we would have never known this story because Lizzie must have used such a story only to tell to Andrew, and then, Andrew being killed, no one in this world would never know that Lizzie had told Andrew such a story. But I hardly believe that Lizzie, after having killed Abby and during all that one hour or so, she invented such a stupid lie to tell to everyone: she must know very well that after the murder, the police would investigate, and then, the note story being a fabrication, neither note, nor author or messenger of the note would be found. So why didn't she invent something else -- even much more easily imagined? If I were Lizzie, I don't think I would fabricate such a note sotry, and therefore, I don't permit me to speculate that Lizzie would have fabricated such a stupid thing! Who am I to humiliate Lizzie's intelligence in such a manner?

Did Lizzie invent the note story? I just don't buy this. I don't.

P.S.: I apologize for repeating what I have said more than one time here.

[Curryong]

I think Franz, that having told a puzzled Bridget about Abby getting a note and having to go out (she told her this when Lizzie was ironing and Bridget was cleaning the dining room windows inside) she decided to stick to her story.

Lizzie couldn't be sure that Bridget hadn't heard her conversation with her father when he came home, in which she told him that Abby had gone out because of a note. It would have looked very peculiar if Lizzie had made up another story to cover Abby's absence and then Bridget told the police what she had overheard between Andrew and Lizzie, and also that Miss Lizzie had later reiterated the same story to her (Bridget's) face.

She was simply sticking to her story, that's all.

[Franz]

So Lizzie killed two people without preparing a good alibi for herself? She could have been so imprudent when she was telling to Andrew a fabricated note story, a lie that would betray her and she ran the risque to be hung? So she told a wild lie by saying that she was most sure that she heard Abby return, knowing very well that Abby had been killed by herself one hour and a half ago and then was lying dead in the guest room? (she certainly lied by saying so but this is another topic.) So she decided to kill ignoring totally when Morse could return home?... Everyone is free to believe what he / she believes.

[Curryong]

But Franz, Lizzie may not have known that John Morse was invited back for the mid-day meal. She wasn't downstairs when John Morse left the house, and Andrew only invited him at the last minute, as he was seeing him out of the side door. Although Lizzie later stated that she saw her father reading in the sitting room, there doesn't appear to have been any conversation between them and he left the house himself soon afterwards, (while Bridget was being sick.) I've always wondered, in fact, about whether she knew about John's return.

I'm very much afraid that Lizzie did kill Abby on an impulse of anger, perhaps over something that was said, as twinsrwe has suggested, and therefor much of what she had previously planned in her mind probably went out the window. She was making things up as she went, it seems to me. As for asking people to look for Abby as she thought she heard her come in (an obvious lie) murderers often do want others to find the victim.

[twinsrwe]

Curryong, I'm afraid you are may be correct when you stated that Lizzie probably made things up as she went. It is quite obvious that she did not plan a good alibi for what she was doing or where she was during the time these two murders took place.